Only 3 Teams Make Up Next Years Pre-Season #1

[butchinmi]

Ok, so this is my pre-season #1, so definitely lacking some brain power behind this:

125 - Suriano (Obviously could argue Cruz, but hey)
133 - Tomato
141 - Heil
149 - Zain
157 - Nolf
165 - Cenzo
174 - Hall
184 - BO
197 - Moore
HWT - Snyder

What's your thoughts? We all know next year is not the Hawks year, but it will be exciting to see the young guys move of the ladder.

 

[21Guns]

I would wait before I crown Moore the number one at 197. Not sure who will be moving up, or coming in yet, and he gives up an awful lot of points for a top 3 wrestler.

I would also wait before I hear about Kyle Snyder: As they said on "Off the Mat" during the finals, Kemp and others feel that Snyder can only hurt his career by staying in college wrestling against 270 pounders. The rib injury is worse than they are letting on, and his future is so bright in freestyle against men his own weight, that they think he should move on and concentrate on freestyle now.

 

[butchinmi]

Weird you didn't ask me to wait on Suriano since guys placed ahead of him and he "prone" to injury. I'm not crowing anyone. I was purely taking the info out there to prove the point "I" wanted to make (accurate or not) that it could possibly be 3 teams with all #1 ranked wrestlers. Doubt it will be.

 

[1stplacehawk]

I would wait before I crown Moore the number one at 197. Not sure who will be moving up, or coming in yet, and he gives up an awful lot of points for a top 3 wrestler.

I would also wait before I hear about Kyle Snyder: As they said on "Off the Mat" during the finals, Kemp and others feel that Snyder can only hurt his career by staying in college wrestling against 270 pounders. The rib injury is worse than they are letting on, and his future is so bright in freestyle against men his own weight, that they think he should move on and concentrate on freestyle now.

Kollin Moore took 3rd as a freshman, and there won't be anyone moving into his weight class with better credentials. There is nothing to wait on.

 

[horraybeer]

Kollin Moore took 3rd as a freshman, and there won't be anyone moving into his weight class with better credentials. There is nothing to wait on.

Moore gives up a lot of escape points.

 

[nearfall2]

Moore looked like an awful good freshmen too me. Let's it all hang out. Not worried about losing a takedown because he is confident he will get out and get another.

Kemp was a great wrestler, and I've always been a big fan, but I thought it was odd when he was talking about how he would do just enough to win during the Heil match. Snyder will be exactly where kemp ended next year. 3 NCAA titles and a second as a true freshmen. Kemp had 3 world titles and a bronze. He was on the 1980 boycott team. I won't hold that against him that's Jimmy's fault. Snyder has a world gold, silver and Olympic gold. I don't see Snyder not going for that 3rd title.

 

[FineMaterial]

Moore gives up a lot of escape points.

So does Nolf. Maybe some stats guy can correlate escapes given up to success?

 

[theXbomber]

Weird you didn't ask me to wait on Suriano since guys placed ahead of him and he "prone" to injury. I'm not crowing anyone. I was purely taking the info out there to prove the point "I" wanted to make (accurate or not) that it could possibly be 3 teams with all #1 ranked wrestlers. Doubt it will be.

I think IMAR starts as 1 at 165. He certainly has the resume to back it up regardless of the Cenzo win. Good observations though

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

I think IMAR starts as 1 at 165. He certainly has the resume to back it up regardless of the Cenzo win. Good observations though

IMAR is just a Jr? If so, I too would slot him above Joseph. I would also slot Valencia in above Hall. But who knows...

I think the predictions in the OP are pretty solid. Some pretty salty wrestlers returning next year.

 

[Stanley75]

125 - Suriano
133 - Nato/ Gross
141 - Heil
149 - Zain
157 - Nolf
165 - Imar
174 - Hall/Valencia
184 - BO
197 - Moore
HWT - Snyder

I think Valencia is going to give Hall all he wants. I also think Valencia has more room for improvement. I also think Gross is better than Nato. Imar will beat Joseph (ask Nolf)

 

[WrestleEveryDay]

Kollin Moore took 3rd as a freshman, and there won't be anyone moving into his weight class with better credentials. There is nothing to wait on.

2x AA at 184, Willie Miklus, is rumored to be going up to 197.

 

[1stplacehawk]

2x AA at 184, Willie Miklus, is rumored to be going up to 197.

He's finished 6th and 7th at a lower weight. Moore is still a no brainer preseason #1. Moore is far from invincible, but so are a lot people on that list.

 

[butchinmi]

I think IMAR starts as 1 at 165. He certainly has the resume to back it up regardless of the Cenzo win. Good observations though

Hey X, appreciate the opinion so I come in peace. Could you imagine if Kem beat Nolf for the championship and Nolf started next year at #1 because of a better resume? Hawk fans would lose there mind and smalls103 would be over here for a week! Anyway, it always depends on how you look at rankings. What you think will happen or what you think should be from past results.

 

[pumpdog20]

125 - Suriano
133 - Nato/ Gross
141 - Heil
149 - Zain
157 - Nolf
165 - Imar
174 - Hall/Valencia
184 - BO
197 - Moore
HWT - Snyder

I think Valencia is going to give Hall all he wants. I also think Valencia has more room for improvement. I also think Gross is better than Nato. Imar will beat Joseph (ask Nolf)

I could see the comparison if it was the first time they wrestled (like it was when Nolf beat IMAR), however it was the 3rd time they met this year and it appears Cenzo might have figured him out. It almost looks like the weight class has figured IMAR out. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire this tournament. Maybe he was battling an injury or bad weight cut.

 

[dunkej01]

Valencia did not seem to have any gas tank issues all season and certainly brought it over the 3 days this weekend but man he has the look of guy that should go up to 184.

Cenzo not only pinned IMar, he had the lead at the time of the fall, he had RT at 1min after 2 and half periods and had the TD battle at 2-1. By any unbiased judgment, it would be clear that Cenzo should be ranked ahead of IMar to start the season.

 

[MVPFAN]

I got no problem ranking Joseph first but I see him no better than a toss up vs Imart and Massa.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

I like Micic at 33!

 

[kjb32812]

If you're going to put Joseph #1 then I also wonder if you also have to put Cruz there. In both cases, they'll get a chance during the season to figure it out.

I think Hall will be a completely different wrestler next year and don't see how he wouldn't be #1 coming in.

 

[butchinmi]

I like Micic at 33!

Tomato, Micic, Gross, Brock ---- maybe Lizak?

 

[Feet To Back]

IMAR is just a Jr? If so, I too would slot him above Joseph. I would also slot Valencia in above Hall. But who knows...

I think the predictions in the OP are pretty solid. Some pretty salty wrestlers returning next year.

Why Valencia ahead of Hall? Hall outright beat him. Zahid doesn't get the td without tugging on chin cup.

 

[MSU158]

Why Valencia ahead of Hall? Hall outright beat him. Zahid doesn't get the td without tugging on chin cup.

Outright beat him? Hall doesn't win by 1 without the "incidental" tug either. Let's not act like Hall did ANYTHING to show he was better. The only takedown that counted was off an obvious desperation attempt by Valencia with less than 30 secs left. You want to call them close or even, that is fair. Acting like Hall "outright beat him" is simply inaccurate.....

 

[Feet To Back]

Outright beat him? Hall doesn't win by 1 without the "incidental" tug either. Let's not act like Hall did ANYTHING to show he was better. The only takedown that counted was off an obvious desperation attempt by Valencia with less than 30 secs left. You want to call them close or even, that is fair. Acting like Hall "outright beat him" is simply inaccurate.....

All I was saying was that Hall won. Not sure what your point is..

 

[MSU158]

All I was saying was that Hall won. Not sure what your point is..

Sorry, but the use of the word outright means more than he simply won. The way Hall won definitely leaves it open to debate on who is better. That was what I was saying.

With that said, I would rank Hall 1st, but that is only because I believe the guy that wins it all when it matters deserves to be #1 until somebody beats him.

 

[CholleyVandine]

IMAR is just a Jr? If so, I too would slot him above Joseph. I would also slot Valencia in above Hall. But who knows...

I think the predictions in the OP are pretty solid. Some pretty salty wrestlers returning next year.

If you're talking about Flo, Intermat and the other rankings, no one is going to be ranked ahead of Joseph or Hall to start the year. Nor will Suriano be ranked ahead of Cruz (Christian Pyles has already said in a Tweet that Cruz will be ranked #1.) That doesn't mean that Joseph, Hall and Cruz will be the best in their weight classes next year, but they'll start out ranked #1 because of their titles this year.

I don't think Suriano or Zahid will open the season with the #2 ranking either. I think those will go to Lizak and BoJo. (I wouldn't be surprised to see Zahid start the year #2 or #3 at 184.) I agree that Moore will be the guy at 197, unless Kyle Snyder drops back down or J'Den Cox gets himself another year of eligibility. I'm not sure about 133 ... I would put NaTo at number 1, but I can see the argument for Gross.

 

[redghost1974]

All I was saying was that Hall won. Not sure what your point is..

I would lay odds BoJo would have won in OT if the friggin ref hand swallowed his whistle.

 

[Sandor45]

Hall wrestled a very counter defensive match in the semi and finals. Got some calls and particularly non calls his way. He's very fortunate to win a title.
His pose after he won Saturday made him look like a tota tool imo, especially cause of the aforementioned facts.
A healthy Bo beats him easily.
Watching the semi, Valencia is the better wrestler.
I'll be rooting against this kid all next year

 

[LionBull]

Obviously a glaring omission: PD3 #1 at 184...and 2017/2018 Hodge Winner to be

 

[redghost1974]

The one thing David Taylor said repeatedly every time he talked about Hall is how he was "the most creative scrambler" he has ever seen. He grows into the weight, it will be interesting to see who develops more next year between him, Valencia, and BoJo. I am not sure how much more ceiling is left on BoJo, but he is a horse.

 

[Old_wrestling_fan]

If you're talking about Flo, Intermat and the other rankings, no one is going to be ranked ahead of Joseph or Hall to start the year. Nor will Suriano be ranked ahead of Cruz (Christian Pyles has already said in a Tweet that Cruz will be ranked #1.) That doesn't mean that Joseph, Hall and Cruz will be the best in their weight classes next year, but they'll start out ranked #1 because of their titles this year.

I don't think Suriano or Zahid will open the season with the #2 ranking either. I think those will go to Lizak and BoJo. (I wouldn't be surprised to see Zahid start the year #2 or #3 at 184.) I agree that Moore will be the guy at 197, unless Kyle Snyder drops back down or J'Den Cox gets himself another year of eligibility. I'm not sure about 133 ... I would put NaTo at number 1, but I can see the argument for Gross.

When I wrote that "I" would slot IMAR above Joseph, I meant, well, "I"...Note - I am not Flo, Intermat, etc. Feel free to rank them however you choose.

 

[horraybeer]

So does Nolf. Maybe some stats guy can correlate escapes given up to success?

Moore is just like nolf and snyder. TD and release. 21 guns was way off with his "moore gives up to many points" comment.

 

[dicemen99]

Sorry, but the use of the word outright means more than he simply won. The way Hall won definitely leaves it open to debate on who is better. That was what I was saying.

With that said, I would rank Hall 1st, but that is only because I believe the guy that wins it all when it matters deserves to be #1 until somebody beats him.

There is debate at most weights about who is better. That said, I agree Hall should be #1 - and Cruz should be #1. Imar and Suriano will get their chances during the season.

I just don't see Valencia at 174 again next season. I think he and his brother move up. Valencia was even bigger than Jordan, he spent his RS at 184, I don't see him competing at 74kg, so a move up is in the cards at some point.

 

[hawks_82]

Ok, so this is my pre-season #1, so definitely lacking some brain power behind this:

125 - Suriano (Obviously could argue Cruz, but hey)
133 - Tomato
141 - Heil
149 - Zain
157 - Nolf
165 - Cenzo
174 - Hall
184 - BO
197 - Moore
HWT - Snyder

What's your thoughts? We all know next year is not the Hawks year, but it will be exciting to see the young guys move of the ladder.

Remember, we are talking preseason #1 rankings. If that is the case, the only argument made here would be for Cruz at 125. Everything else is as it should be.

That doesnt mean Zahid or IMAR won't end up #1, but going into the season Hall and Cenzo earned the preseason #1 spot

 

[CumberlandHawk]

I would lay odds BoJo would have won in OT if the friggin ref hand swallowed his whistle.

That was borderline criminal. How that ref sleeps at night is beyond me.

 

[jvclark]

I got no problem ranking Joseph first but I see him no better than a toss up vs Imart and Massa.

I agree with this. I don't care where they start the season, but I do care where they are seeded at the end. I don't mean any disrespect to Joseph, but I don't think he was the best in the class. Did he win his matches? Yes, and before someone jumps on me, I acknowledge that. I won't even say he didn't deserve to win. I will stand by the fact that the better wrestler didn't win in the semis vs Massa.

I think he ends up third in the class next year with 1 & 2 being Imar and Massa, in no particular order.

 

[smalls103]

I would wait before I crown Moore the number one at 197. Not sure who will be moving up, or coming in yet, and he gives up an awful lot of points for a top 3 wrestler.

I would also wait before I hear about Kyle Snyder: As they said on "Off the Mat" during the finals, Kemp and others feel that Snyder can only hurt his career by staying in college wrestling against 270 pounders. The rib injury is worse than they are letting on, and his future is so bright in freestyle against men his own weight, that they think he should move on and concentrate on freestyle now.

i'm a big stats guy.

i'd like to know if anyone in the history of wrestling message boards, nay, message boards in general, have been banned not for being inflammatory, but for being stupid.

 

[smalls103]

2x AA at 184, Willie Miklus, is rumored to be going up to 197.

Moore's W-L still better

 

[smalls103]

I'll be rooting against this kid all next year

guarantee this affects his performance.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Moore is just like nolf and snyder. TD and release. 21 guns was way off with his "moore gives up to many points" comment.

Is that the only comments 21 is way off with..........

 

[Kwoodhawk]

i'm a big stats guy.

i'd like to know if anyone in the history of wrestling message boards, nay, message boards in general, have been banned not for being inflammatory, but for being stupid.

go for it..............we got your back on this one...........

 

[24 so far]

125 - Suriano
133 - Nato/ Gross
141 - Heil
149 - Zain
157 - Nolf
165 - Imar
174 - Hall/Valencia
184 - BO
197 - Moore
HWT - Snyder

I think Valencia is going to give Hall all he wants. I also think Valencia has more room for improvement. I also think Gross is better than Nato. Imar will beat Joseph (ask Nolf)

Hall and Joseph were both more than fortunate they weren't a couple stalling points behind by the end of the 1st period in their semi-final matches. Joseph wrestled well against IMar but got a fluke pin, something that won't happen again, and he'll probably never beat Massa again either. Same for Hall and Valencia. If they have Referee's that aren't going to swallow their whistles they'll struggle in those matches big time.