Only 3 Teams Make Up Next Years Pre-Season #1

[24 so far]

Valencia did not seem to have any gas tank issues all season and certainly brought it over the 3 days this weekend but man he has the look of guy that should go up to 184.

Cenzo not only pinned IMar, he had the lead at the time of the fall, he had RT at 1min after 2 and half periods and had the TD battle at 2-1. By any unbiased judgment, it would be clear that Cenzo should be ranked ahead of IMar to start the season.

Didn't they have 3 matches and IMar won 2 of them?

Cenzo "pinned" IMar off of IMar's move (the match wasn't close to over yet if I remember correctly.................), not sure how he pulled it off or what exactly happened that didn't allow IMar to finish that, but he typically does and I for damn sure would bet on him doing it a lot more, if he's so inclined. I think IMar being on a so-so team hinders him some, seems like he just wants to advance most of the time to me, cause he's hell on wheels when he wants to be.

 

[Sullivan]

Didn't they have 3 matches and IMar won 2 of them?

Cenzo "pinned" IMar off of IMar's move (the match wasn't close to over yet if I remember correctly.................), not sure how he pulled it off or what exactly happened that didn't allow IMar to finish that, but he typically does and I for damn sure would bet on him doing it a lot more, if he's so inclined. I think IMar being on a so-so team hinders him some, seems like he just wants to advance most of the time to me, cause he's hell on wheels when he wants to be.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Didn't they have 3 matches and IMar won 2 of them?

Cenzo "pinned" IMar off of IMar's move (the match wasn't close to over yet if I remember correctly.................), not sure how he pulled it off or what exactly happened that didn't allow IMar to finish that, but he typically does and I for damn sure would bet on him doing it a lot more, if he's so inclined. I think IMar being on a so-so team hinders him some, seems like he just wants to advance most of the time to me, cause he's hell on wheels when he wants to be.

IMar, needless to say is an awesome wrestler and if he had won this weekend, he would've entered into the discussion of being one of the best ever (and still could if he wins next year). Anyway, Joseph showed progression in his two loses to IMar and while the score was close before the pin, he controlled the action in the final. Sure, IMar has the talent to beat Joseph next year but he's going to have to change his game plan to do it. Massa actually concerns me more than IMar. What a deep weight class!

 

[GOLDBANGER]

Ok, so this is my pre-season #1, so definitely lacking some brain power behind this:

125 - Suriano (Obviously could argue Cruz, but hey)
133 - Tomato
141 - Heil
149 - Zain
157 - Nolf
165 - Cenzo
174 - Hall
184 - BO
197 - Moore
HWT - Snyder

What's your thoughts? We all know next year is not the Hawks year, but it will be exciting to see the young guys move of the ladder.

All reasonable except 125. No way is Suriano #1. Probably starts the season at #3 is my guess.

 

[redghost1974]

PSU wrestlers stick to their game plans and always look for a pin from all positions.

 

[MitchL]

Tomato, Micic, Gross, Brock ---- maybe Lizak?

OK, I'm going to sound like a Gopher hater here, but here goes anyway. Lizak had pretty much EVERYTHING fall into place for him at Nationals. It was a dream scenario the way he ended up in the finals match. That likely doesn't happen again at either 125 or 133. The rumors in Gopherville are that McKee might redshirt, so Lizak at 133 is very possible. He certainly looked like a pretty good sized 125 to me.

But he won't ride the 133s like he rode some of the 125s, imo.

 

[hazeydave]

Didn't they have 3 matches and IMar won 2 of them?

Cenzo "pinned" IMar off of IMar's move (the match wasn't close to over yet if I remember correctly.................), not sure how he pulled it off or what exactly happened that didn't allow IMar to finish that,

I too thought that Cenzo took him to his back as a result of Imar's attempted throw- but after I re-watched it again you can see that Cenzo hit an inside trip at the exact right moment- in fact, Martinez's hands release momentarily just as they start to go and Cenzo has Imar's left leg blocked with with that inside trip. It may be that Imar initiated the movement but Cenzo siezed the opportunity. Just great wrestling. I also thought he was pinned for at least a 2 count, maybe a 3 count.

 

[anon_hc7hkvtk15hp5]

Didn't they have 3 matches and IMar won 2 of them?

Cenzo "pinned" IMar off of IMar's move. I think IMar being on a so-so team hinders him some, seems like he just wants to advance most of the time to me, cause he's hell on wheels when he wants to be.

As good as Imar is, he sure seems to get worn out towards the ends of these high profile matches. I wouldn't say he gasses as he can keep going, but he starts to get sloppy. Even this pin, he went to lock up the throw, but it wasn't there. I wonder other than Perry, who is around to push him in the room and really work on cleaning things up as matches drag on. It isn't a factor wrestling the lower AA and below guys as he can out quick and muscle his way through. It seemed the same thing happened last year against Nolf.

 

[Sandor45]

guarantee this affects his performance.

You mean just like how it affects the performance of every Hawkeye anytime they wrestle a big tourney or away dual?
Paaalease, if a Hawkeye won a title the way Hall did than posed like that, the entire wrestling world would be in utter meltdown.
The Mat Forum would be in overload.
Hell, even the all reliable Flo site might even have glitches due to all the hate comments.
Get real

 

[1stplacehawk]

You mean just like how it affects the performance of every Hawkeye anytime they wrestle a big tourney or away dual?
Paaalease, if a Hawkeye won a title the way Hall did than posed like that, the entire wrestling world would be in utter meltdown.
The Mat Forum would be in overload.
Hell, even the all reliable Flo site might even have glitches due to all the hate comments.
Get real

Hall is fake humble. Dude is as cocky as they come, which I really don't have a problem with. He's been damn good his entire life, and at the end of the day seems like a decent kid. That being said, he was extremely fortunate to win a title. Zahid was the best man in that bracket.

 

[24 so far]

I too thought that Cenzo took him to his back as a result of Imar's attempted throw- but after I re-watched it again you can see that Cenzo hit an inside trip at the exact right moment- in fact, Martinez's hands release momentarily just as they start to go and Cenzo has Imar's left leg blocked with with that inside trip. It may be that Imar initiated the movement but Cenzo siezed the opportunity. Just great wrestling. I also thought he was pinned for at least a 2 count, maybe a 3 count.

Regardless, Joseph didn't initiate the move, IMar most definitely did. What he failed to do was execute it properly. There are things that you can do that negate anything your opponent does, especially in this instance, and IMar didn't do that. Basically he didn't "hit" the move, or all we're hearing about today is the headache Joseph has from getting tossed on it.

So Josephs timing and reaction was real good, none of which matters if IMar executes the move as it is designed. If he does that, Joseph or God is going to his back. Period.

 

[T J]

Regardless, Joseph didn't initiate the move, IMar most definitely did. What he failed to do was execute it properly. There are things that you can do that negate anything your opponent does, especially in this instance, and IMar didn't do that. Basically he didn't "hit" the move, or all we're hearing about today is the headache Joseph has from getting tossed on it.

So Josephs timing and reaction was real good, none of which matters if IMar executes the move as it is designed. If he does that, Joseph or God is going to his back. Period.

Film Room Looks at PSU’s Vincenzo Joseph’s NCAA Wrestling Final Inside Trip of Isaiah Martinez​

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/201...inal-inside-trip-isaiah-martinez-165-champion​

First - No question that Isaiah Martinez is an outstanding wrestler, who earned his 98 wins with power, speed, timing, strategy and other great traits he has employed as a champion. Hats off to IMar for his accomplishments.

The above link has a good breakdown, detailing "Cenzo" Joseph's very fast responses that were negating various IMar attacks. Plus it shows Cenzo blocking IMar's final throw attempt. Then we see that separately and quickly, Cenzo launched his own powerful throw that put IMar on his back. From this point of view, it was Joseph's throw that did the trick.

What is perhaps even more amazing is how Cenzo also rotated his body 90 degrees in the air, while still holding IMar's right arm. Joseph's airborne rotation put him in ideal position to complete the fall. The fall was the result of stopping IMar's attack, while then immediately countering with a successful throw that was all from Joseph, coupled with the airborne swivel to position for the pin.

Was Joseph's airborne rotation just lucky? Perhaps. But we have evidence that it is part of Joseph's abilities. Look at the opening of the third period. IMar did a power return to throw Joseph to the mat. But Joseph also created another major cat like airborne body adjustment to escape in 5 seconds. That airborne maneuver preserved a critical 1:00 riding time into the third period.

If we never see Joseph perform like that again, then "lucky breaks" might be in order. However Joseph not only demonstrated great speed and body control in his takedowns, he appeared to have a deep gas tank left in the third, to fuel what appear to be his fast-twitch responses, combined with a very strong power core.

Will be watching for evidence either way in the future. So far Cenzo appears to have his own special abilities and he is quickly developing his talents via good experience and coaching.

At this point it appears Joseph's win was no fluke. He executed his plan against a very superior wrestler in IMar, with speed, agility and power.

That said imho, IMar is a massive talent and their future matches could go either way, depending upon who gets the final chance to take it to his opponent.

Your mileage may vary, of course. That's why they decide champions on the mat. Regards!

 

[Rhino80]

Doubt Zahid stays where he's at next year , he's gonna have to bump if they wanna find room to get Shields and TShirt in the line up

 

[lionlover]

I think Valencia is going to give Hall all he wants. I also think Valencia has more room for improvement. I also think Gross is better than Nato. Imar will beat Joseph (ask Nolf)

You may want to try thinking a little harder.

That match was pretty even. It could have gone either way. So, I won't argue your point that Valencia would "give Hall all he wants."

But Valencia is an over sized "redshirt freshmen" while Hall is an undersized "true freshmen." To suggest that Valencia has more room for improvement/development at 174 is wishful thinking on your part.

The biggest jump in improvement generally happens for most wrestlers after their first year in the room. That is college wrestling 101. You just FAILED that course with your analysis, er...wish!

 

[Osprey Lion]

Didn't they have 3 matches and IMar won 2 of them?

Cenzo "pinned" IMar off of IMar's move (the match wasn't close to over yet if I remember correctly.................), not sure how he pulled it off or what exactly happened that didn't allow IMar to finish that, but he typically does and I for damn sure would bet on him doing it a lot more, if he's so inclined. I think IMar being on a so-so team hinders him some, seems like he just wants to advance most of the time to me, cause he's hell on wheels when he wants to be.

Joseph hooked both of IMar's arms and used an inside trip to throw him to his back. If that is
one of IMar's moves, he better get rid of it quick. Perhaps you should watch the replay so you
know "what actually happened".

 

[nitlion6]

125 - Suriano
133 - Nato/ Gross
141 - Heil
149 - Zain
157 - Nolf
165 - Imar
174 - Hall/Valencia
184 - BO
197 - Moore
HWT - Snyder

I think Valencia is going to give Hall all he wants. I also think Valencia has more room for improvement. I also think Gross is better than Nato. Imar will beat Joseph (ask Nolf)

Perry already has a plan. He dug out the 2016 Big10 finals tape. Mark is making a list of how many times he can ask for a review, how many times he can walk to the table and ask to speak to the ref. If he can get the ref to stop the match 8 or more times IMar has a good shot.

 

[nitlion6]

Didn't they have 3 matches and IMar won 2 of them?

Cenzo "pinned" IMar off of IMar's move (the match wasn't close to over yet if I remember correctly.................), not sure how he pulled it off or what exactly happened that didn't allow IMar to finish that, but he typically does and I for damn sure would bet on him doing it a lot more, if he's so inclined. I think IMar being on a so-so team hinders him some, seems like he just wants to advance most of the time to me, cause he's hell on wheels when he wants to be.

IMar had double underhooks which put Cenzo with double overhooks. IMar may have been trying to hit his move, but Cenzo did hit his move. The inside trip. The willingness to step into that move while leading in the 3rd period might be something Cenzo was born with, but there is a rumor floating around there may have been some coaching involved.

 

[wasdt21]

8 pst posts in a row ya'll got your own board to talk to each other ,losers

 

[21Guns]

8 pst posts in a row ya'll got your own board to talk to each other ,losers

I'd take it as a form of respect. In this sport, you want to be great, you need to earn Iowa's respect on the mat.

 

[Gutt15]

Valencia has to be #1 at 174, if he stays there. He was the superior wrestler in his match vs Hall and it looked like he wasn't even trying.

IMar has to be #1 at 165 too. He wrestled the whole tourney just like Gilman wrestled on Friday, very passive. He knew he was a lot better than anybody else at his weight and did his best not to make any mistakes as opposed to his normal, aggressive style. I guarantee he comes out next year as a man on a mission and mows through everybody in his way. You can take that to the bank.

It's hard to argue against any of the others. The biggest question is when will somebody with half a pulse move to 141 to knock off that bum Heil???

 

[PSU Mike]

Joseph won his last 6 matches of the year by defeating all three guys that had beaten him this season (Subjeck, Jordan, and IMar), and won his last three matches (Lewis, Massa, and Martinez) all of which were even or within 1 in the final period, by hitting inside trips. He basically willed it each time. He peaked at the right time for sure. Lucky? Your call.

 

[CumberlandHawk]

It's hard to argue against any of the others. The biggest question is when will somebody with half a pulse move to 141 to knock off that bum Heil???

Vince Turk?

 

[nitlion6]

Let's clear it up with the truth:

1. Imar is gassed at the end of the 2nd. He takes close to 8 seconds to take the top position, after the official blows the whistle for him to take top.
2. Imar returns Cenzo to the mat but can't hold him on a roll through and Cenzo gets out in 4 seconds, and STILL has a minute of riding time and a 6-5 lead. "Fluke win" is eliminated from anyone's vernacular from there on out.
3. Dresser on the "off the mat" show, says this: "I guarantee there will be a takedown and more in this last minute and 47 seconds". Dresser knows what is happening.
4. Imar goes for the High C from the lefty underhook. Usually hits it, but Cenzo has unreal quick twitch, and kicks the ankle out of the way. Incredible counter, because Imar hits that 99 times out of 100.
5. Now IMar gets desperate. He already had the inside tie and failed to score, but he now goes double underhooks and goes outside trip.
6. No good. Cenzo is planted on his back foot and Imar finds out again that Cenzo is as strong as he is.
7. Now Cenzo has double overhooks in on Imar, and Imar pulls back. Why? Because Cenzo nearly hit the inside trip in the first, and because Imar fears the throw by.
8. Bad news for IMar. Cenzo has him and goes inside trip, and Imar is literally lifted up off the mat off both feet.
9. Cenzo, on the way down, has the presence of mind to use his right hand to break momentum, while keeping the left arm control.
10. No matter, I've seen it a thousand times and Imar will get the elevator, right?
11. Wrong. Cenzo, after using the hand to break the fall, then uses his head as a fulcrum, while regaining the right arm and keeping the left arm, and despite Imar elevating, Cenzo pulls off a ninja move by swinging his legs around Imar and brings his hips down, while keeping control, landing straight on Imar.
12. End game. Imar is flat on his back and counting the lights.

It was one hell of a move. He did not "catch him". And he won the match fair and square.

Hey Guns.
I have a question for you. Do you believe Cenzo was just born to wrestle like he does, or is it possible he has been coached? If coached, do you believe the Vincenzo Joesph from 2 years ago could have beaten IMar Saturday night? If not does that mean the Penn State coaching staff has coached and developed the kid's skill set?

 

[21Guns]

Hey Guns.
I have a question for you. Do you believe Cenzo was just born to wrestle like he does, or is it possible he has been coached? If coached, do you believe the Vincenzo Joesph from 2 years ago could have beaten IMar Saturday night? If not does that mean the Penn State coaching staff has coached and developed the kid's skill set?

Allow me to answer that question: Cenzo, when he was coming up, was on one level. Now, he is on another level. He has gone from a very good level, to the elite level. No wrestler goes from one place, to the elite level, unless they have elite coaching and elite development. Cael and his staff, are the best developers of talent in the world.

Now, let's take a look at a mystery wrestler, and the beginning of his career at PSU, and try to guess who he is, and where he wound up by his senior year:

11/5/09Intrasquad Dual MeetTyler Saltsman (Penn State)L 6-4 (SV)RecapPhotos11/15/09Bloomsburg Dual MeetDan Gaylord (Bloomsburg)L Fall (5:28)RecapPhotos11/22/09Rutgers Dual MeetBilly Ashnault (Rutgers)L 7-3RecapPhotosVideo12/6/09Nittany Lion OpenJason Turpyn (Unattached)W Fall (2:22)RecapBrackets12/6/09Nittany Lion OpenGarrett Morabito (Binghamton)L 7-412/6/09Nittany Lion OpenCullen Isenberg (Rutgers)W default12/6/09Nittany Lion OpenRob Vollrath (Unattached)W TF 15-012/6/09Nittany Lion OpenErik Galloway (Unattached)W TF 17-212/6/09Nittany Lion OpenFiliberto Colon (Rutgers)L 16-1112/6/09Nittany Lion OpenGarrett Morabito (Binghamton)W 2-012/11/09West Virginia Dual MeetColin Johnston (West Virginia)L 13-4RecapPhotos12/12/09Pittsburgh Dual MeetJimmy Conroy (Pittsburgh)L 7-3RecapPhotos12/20/09Reno Tournament of ChampionsMiles Mazurkiewicz (Great Falls)L Fall (4:50)RecapBracketsVideo12/20/09Reno Tournament of ChampionsJeremy Shaw (North Carolina)W 8-212/20/09Reno Tournament of ChampionsCory Vombaur (Wyoming)L 7-001/3/10Lock Haven Dual MeetJohn Trumbetti (Lock Haven)L 7-4RecapPhotos01/8/10Virginia Tech Dual MeetBrock LiVorio (Virginia Tech)L 5-3RecapPhotos01/8/10Kent State Dual Meet#5 Danny Mitcheff (Kent State)L 12-3RecapPhotos01/9/10Oklahoma State Dual Meet#7 Jordan Oliver (Oklahoma State)L 14-4RecapPhotos01/9/10Oklahoma Dual MeetKendric Maple (Oklahoma)L Fall (5:27)RecapPhotos01/22/10Illinois Dual MeetDaryl Thomas (Illinois)W 13-12RecapPhotos01/24/10Ohio State Dual MeetIan Paddock (Ohio State)L 13-2RecapPhotos01/29/10Iowa Dual Meet#6 Daniel Dennis (Iowa)L 17-7RecapPhotos01/31/10Wisconsin Dual Meet#8 Tyler Graff (Wisconsin)L TF 23-8 (6:44)RecapPhotos02/5/10Northwestern Dual MeetEric Metzler (Northwestern)W 8-4RecapPhotos02/7/10Michigan Dual MeetZac Stevens (Michigan)L 13-9RecapPhotos02/19/10Minnesota Dual Meet#1 Jayson Ness (Minnesota)L Fall (1:37)Recap03/6/10Big Ten ChampionshipsEric Metzler (Northwestern)L 4-2RecapPhotosBrackets03/6/10Big Ten ChampionshipsZac Stevens (Michigan)L 6-2

 

[Pennstate1985]

Why do a few of my PSU brethren feel the need to strut and drive-by troll on this board? Isn't it enough to have won nationals going away with five champs? I know these are exciting times for us, but why crap on other programs? Iowa is a great academic school with a great wrestling program and with a great coach and wrestlers. Can't we just take silent pride in what we accomplished rather than boast about it? After all, we fans did NOTHING to win nationals, so why the chest pumping? Some of you need to grow up.

If you wish to post here, great, but don't just come here after an Iowa loss or a PSU victory. The amount of knowledge I've learned here is vast, so I'd recommend HR to any fan of wrestling. I think you'd find that engaging Iowa fans in a wrestling discussion is enjoyable long term, so no need for some to troll. Just chill.

But be careful about this Chief poster though. He's two faced or so I'm told...

 

[21Guns]

Vince Turk?

Hell yes. Hopefully, among others.

 

[MSU158]

Allow me to answer that question: Cenzo, when he was coming up, was on one level. Now, he is on another level. He has gone from a very good level, to the elite level. No wrestler goes from one place, to the elite level, unless they have elite coaching and elite development. Cael and his staff, are the best developers of talent in the world.

Now, let's take a look at a mystery wrestler, and the beginning of his career at PSU, and try to guess who he is, and where he wound up by his senior year:

11/5/09Intrasquad Dual MeetTyler Saltsman (Penn State)L 6-4 (SV)RecapPhotos11/15/09Bloomsburg Dual MeetDan Gaylord (Bloomsburg)L Fall (5:28)RecapPhotos11/22/09Rutgers Dual MeetBilly Ashnault (Rutgers)L 7-3RecapPhotosVideo12/6/09Nittany Lion OpenJason Turpyn (Unattached)W Fall (2:22)RecapBrackets12/6/09Nittany Lion OpenGarrett Morabito (Binghamton)L 7-412/6/09Nittany Lion OpenCullen Isenberg (Rutgers)W default12/6/09Nittany Lion OpenRob Vollrath (Unattached)W TF 15-012/6/09Nittany Lion OpenErik Galloway (Unattached)W TF 17-212/6/09Nittany Lion OpenFiliberto Colon (Rutgers)L 16-1112/6/09Nittany Lion OpenGarrett Morabito (Binghamton)W 2-012/11/09West Virginia Dual MeetColin Johnston (West Virginia)L 13-4RecapPhotos12/12/09Pittsburgh Dual MeetJimmy Conroy (Pittsburgh)L 7-3RecapPhotos12/20/09Reno Tournament of ChampionsMiles Mazurkiewicz (Great Falls)L Fall (4:50)RecapBracketsVideo12/20/09Reno Tournament of ChampionsJeremy Shaw (North Carolina)W 8-212/20/09Reno Tournament of ChampionsCory Vombaur (Wyoming)L 7-001/3/10Lock Haven Dual MeetJohn Trumbetti (Lock Haven)L 7-4RecapPhotos01/8/10Virginia Tech Dual MeetBrock LiVorio (Virginia Tech)L 5-3RecapPhotos01/8/10Kent State Dual Meet#5 Danny Mitcheff (Kent State)L 12-3RecapPhotos01/9/10Oklahoma State Dual Meet#7 Jordan Oliver (Oklahoma State)L 14-4RecapPhotos01/9/10Oklahoma Dual MeetKendric Maple (Oklahoma)L Fall (5:27)RecapPhotos01/22/10Illinois Dual MeetDaryl Thomas (Illinois)W 13-12RecapPhotos01/24/10Ohio State Dual MeetIan Paddock (Ohio State)L 13-2RecapPhotos01/29/10Iowa Dual Meet#6 Daniel Dennis (Iowa)L 17-7RecapPhotos01/31/10Wisconsin Dual Meet#8 Tyler Graff (Wisconsin)L TF 23-8 (6:44)RecapPhotos02/5/10Northwestern Dual MeetEric Metzler (Northwestern)W 8-4RecapPhotos02/7/10Michigan Dual MeetZac Stevens (Michigan)L 13-9RecapPhotos02/19/10Minnesota Dual Meet#1 Jayson Ness (Minnesota)L Fall (1:37)Recap03/6/10Big Ten ChampionshipsEric Metzler (Northwestern)L 4-2RecapPhotosBrackets03/6/10Big Ten ChampionshipsZac Stevens (Michigan)L 6-2

Bryan Pearsall was never an All American. PSU has definitely been the best team since Sanderson took over. That is undeniable. But, if you want to tout them as something bigger than life, get your facts straight when you come to someone else's board to do so......................

 

[DonHawkeye]

IMar looked a lot like he did the first time he wrestled Nolf. Like he underestimated Joseph and was trying to force stuff too much. Look for him to wrestle a much more strategic match from now on against Joseph. Like he did after that first match with Nolf and whenever he wrestled James Green. When he goes in and sticks to a game plan he is as good as anyone. The guns a blazing approach works almost all the time, but it has burnt him twice now.

I would still take him over Joseph moving forward.

 

[Pennstate1985]

IMar looked a lot like he did the first time he wrestled Nolf. Like he underestimated Joseph and was trying to force stuff too much. Look for him to wrestle a much more strategic match from now on against Joseph. Like he did after that first match with Nolf and whenever he wrestled James Green. When he goes in and sticks to a game plan he is as good as anyone. The guns a blazing approach works almost all the time, but it has burnt him twice now.

I would still take him over Joseph moving forward.

This was the 3rd time he's wrestled Joseph though, so the analogy doesn't fit well. First two matches were 5-2 and 8-5 I believe. I don't think he underestimated him. I think he was overconfident.

 

[latdrop170]

I'd take it as a form of respect. In this sport, you want to be great, you need to earn Iowa's respect on the mat.

Not even close to true anymore.

 

[DonHawkeye]

Overconfident vs Underestimated? Really the same thing. He went out and wasn't worried about losing in a position that he wins 99% of the time. He is gonna game plan more and wrestle a smarter match when he wrestles Joseph from here on out. I think he is even harder to beat when he does that.

 

[elvis63]

I don't have the depth of knowledge of many here and I like these discussions. Gives me some good information and helps to to watch matches with a more educated eye.

 

[T J]

Valencia has to be #1 at 174, if he stays there. He was the superior wrestler in his match vs Hall and it looked like he wasn't even trying.

IMar has to be #1 at 165 too. He wrestled the whole tourney just like Gilman wrestled on Friday, very passive. He knew he was a lot better than anybody else at his weight and did his best not to make any mistakes as opposed to his normal, aggressive style. I guarantee he comes out next year as a man on a mission and mows through everybody in his way. You can take that to the bank.

It's hard to argue against any of the others. The biggest question is when will somebody with half a pulse move to 141 to knock off that bum Heil???

Regarding IMar, from another thread -

The throw was Cenzo's 3rd take down.
It was 6-5 before the throw. The 3rd take down made it a 3-1 takedown advantage.

Cenzo also would have earned 4 back points (If IMAR was able to evade the pin). Truth be told, with NO PIN (imaginary world), it would have been 12-5 ), (2 for the 3rd take down + 4 back + 6 on the board already) = 12.

Then, the riding time was almost a lock, due to Cenzo previously building 1 minute of riding time. At that point Cenzo started to build on the minute he had built...With only 1:30 or so on the clock, RT was almost a lock.

IMAR was gassed and IMHO not coming back from the last takedown, pin or no pin.

The only difference was more team points
- Big Blue12

======

Note: At 13-5 with riding time, the score was already at a Major Decision over IMar. No guarantees how it would have ended, but IMar was being significantly beaten by Cenzo at the time of the stoppage, in the third period. Cenzo Joseph was on top, he appeared to still have a deep gas tank and had already shown the rare ability to ride IMar in that match.

======

Even if IMar rolls out of Cenzo's "fluky pin," it's still 12-5 Cenzo plus RT with 1:30 left in the 3rd and IMar is still on bottom and gassed.

Good Luck with that.
- diggerpup


​

 

[hazeydave]

From my eye, it looked like Joseph improved at the same rate as Gilman faded, from November thru January to March.

Gilman did not fade- from my eye he was consistently tough all year long, the number one guy in the weight and beat all challengers- he just lost a match, albeit at an inopportune time. It happens.

 

[HawkeyeEmpire]

This was the 3rd time he's wrestled Joseph though, so the analogy doesn't fit well. First two matches were 5-2 and 8-5 I believe. I don't think he underestimated him. I think he was overconfident.

I agree with this, Imar has seemed a little to confident this year to me. As if all he had to do was show up, go thru the motions and receive his 3rd title. A couple previous matches with Joseph that were close in score but he was never in any real danger of losing. Problem was this time Joseph came ready to make a statement and Imar panicked and lost. Great job by Joseph but I think I still take Imar next time.

 

[hawkster03]

Didn't read all the comments. Just want to say:

Go IMAR!!!!!!! He'll be a champ next year.

 

[hawkster03]

Something happened over the season because Gilman would have majored Cruz in December, IMO.

Something didn't happen over the season. Something happened during the match. Gilman wrestled "scared" and wrestled not to lose.

 

[MVPFAN]

And Gilman did not "fade". Gilman was on track to win a national championship and would have, but Cruz wrestled a perfect match, and Gilman wrestled a poor tactical match, and failed to make Cruz engage. Had Thomas cut him loose in the 2nd and forced him to wrestle, he would have won the match, instead of riding him and eating up time without a chance to score. He didn't "fade".

Then again, Diggerplop is an idiot who runs his piehole over on our board, so of course he is on here trying to gloat.

Spot on.

 

[ZepGraffiti]

So there's 12 returning NCAA Champs next year? Has there been more? 9 of them have the chance to be at least 3x'ers [at some point].

 

[ZepGraffiti]

I'm a "clown" who you put on ignore because I called you out and you backed out like the coward you are. Only clown on here is you, you little b#$ch.

You obsessed over my posts for nearly a year, non stop, and when I called your pu$$y ass out, you put me on ignore, and then continued to try and run your mouth about me. You are an internet coward who hides behind a keyboard, and freaks out over anyone who knows more about the sport than you do. And, the most respected posters on our board like Amalone, are MY friends, not yours. You try to ki$$ ass to be in a little clique, and run and hide when youre called out. Keep your mouth shut over here, you have no club on here to cover your little female butt up for you.

I thought you were against 'name-calling'?
Or is that just when off your meds?