I support Israel, but like most Israelis I don’t support Netanyahu. This is no different than supporting America but not supporting Trump while he was in office.
Opinion The GOP’s abandonment of Ukraine makes me ashamed to be an American
- Thread starter cigaretteman
- Start date
I support Israel, but like most Israelis I don’t support Netanyahu. This is no different than supporting America but not supporting Trump while he was in office.
We have folks basically regurgitating Hamas propaganda on here and it’s disturbing.
Except you're allowing your feeling for Netanyahu to determine your support for Israel.
Because it fits their political agenda. There's no way some of these people will support Israel because that means being on the same side as MAGA (in their eyes).
By your definition, most Israelis do not support Israel.
Most Israelis Want Netanyahu to Go, Poll Shows
ByAnat Peled
Only 18% of Israelis want Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to continue in his role, a poll conducted Friday for Israeli television showed. More than three-quarters of Israelis want him to quit—47% after the war and 29% immediately, with 6% undecided.
You are really being a dick here. You realize I argued against what I viewed as draconian COVID restrictions. I frequently discuss my misgivings about the entire transgender issue, particularly when it come to tinkering with minors’ bodies or men competing against women insports.
I consider every issue independently, unpersuaded by groupthink. Which means that I don’t believe I need to support everything Israel does in order to be a supporter of Israel. For some reason this infuriates you, so you refuse to even acknowledge, let alone address, anything I am saying in this thread. You just keep repeating “you don’t support Israel” and blaming it on character flaws for which there is no evidence.
When the column is coming from Max 'Jack' Boot, a drum beater for (and an enabler of) a myriad of war crimes on behalf of Bush, Inc. there is no need to read his propaganda and bullshit.
Eff him and all the war profiteers.
How many troops does the USA have fighting in the Ukraine-Russia war?
How many are fighting in Gaza?
Last edited:
JFC, you are dumb.
It would be hilarious if it weren't so very sad.
What else did your Fox Gospel tell you?
Not a lot worse than Biden’s ratings and confidence level polling, sometimes there just isn’t a better option, lesser of two evils.A majority of Israelis do not support Netanyahuism, which is what this is.
I saw an article last week, I think on GIAHORT but not certain, that Netanyahu wants the election postponed at all costs because he will lose badly.
He only has around 25 percent support and is only trusted by 4 percent. Even most of the people who support him don’t trust him. They just support his willingness to indiscriminately slaughter non-whites who dare to live among or next to them. That, not surprisingly, explains the overwhelming support from MAGA and GrOuPies.
Edit - not the same story I read but these contain much of the same information.
Being engaged in a proxy war is still a war. As to the number of troops in israel/Ukraine I am not sure. The number isn't zero, though there's no telling how much combat they may or may not be doing under the radar. Funding wars around the world is still being pro war regardless.
If you can't define the word woman then you’ve lost all ability to call anyone else dumb.
I literally don't give a fvck what they did or didn't do. I realize it's your obsession, but I could just as easily argue it was your lack of a response to their annexation of Crimea and endorsement of Trump's attempts to fracture NATO that encouraged Putin to invade Ukraine. Or are you going to claim neither of those inactions/actions is in your wheelhouse?
Bottom line, it doesn't matter. The choice to invade was Putin's alone. Your desperate attempts to place the blame elsewhere...well, I'll leave it to others to determine your motives.
I didn't ask if you gave a ****. That's a weak evasion on the question.
I'm asking for critical thinking from your perspective, nothing more, and you're afraid to offer it.
I don't know why, but here we are with you refusing to think about why the neocons did these things against the advice of experts, who in retrospect had a demonstrably better understanding of the situation.
My lack of response?
Obama was president in 2014 when Victoria "**** the EU" Nuland was in Ukraine husbanding the violent insurrection against the duly elected government.
Obama was president when the Russians annexed Crimea in response to that coup.
The Obama administration did respond with sanctions against Russia.
History is for chumps, amirite?
I bet the next war the neocons want us involved in will be great.
I don't remember how the last few went. Did we win?
The choice to invade was certainly Putin's. He did what Merkel predicted.
Nobody disputes it.
I'm curious if you'll evade this question too. Thinking being hard and all:
In October of 1962, when Kennedy declared an embargo (internationally recognized act of war) on Cuba, if the Soviets ran it and the U.S. opened fire, who would you blame for WW3?
So let me see if I have this correct, accountability is bad?
Are the democrats afraid an audit might reveal how much of that money is coming back to their election coffers?
Are the democrats afraid an audit might reveal how much of that money is coming back to their election coffers?
You are giving them a pass because you have no plan to get rid of them. You just want Israel to accept the fact that every now and then hamas is going to kill Israeli's. It's the same thing as the problem kids, no plan to deal with them other than to tell everyone else that have to be ok with what happens.
WASHINGTON, Dec 10 (Reuters) - The White House will step up its engagement with U.S. lawmakers trying to strike a bipartisan deal that would provide military aid for Ukraine and Israel while tightening U.S. border security, a Democratic senator said on Sunday.
Republicans have insisted that additional funding for Ukraine must be paired with major U.S. border security changes but a bipartisan group of senators trying to broker a compromise have made little progress with less than a week before the U.S. Congress leaves for a Christmas break.
www.reuters.com
Republicans have insisted that additional funding for Ukraine must be paired with major U.S. border security changes but a bipartisan group of senators trying to broker a compromise have made little progress with less than a week before the U.S. Congress leaves for a Christmas break.
White House to intensify push for Ukraine aid and border security deal
The White House will step up its engagement with U.S. lawmakers trying to strike a bipartisan deal that would provide military aid for Ukraine and Israel while tightening U.S. border security, a Democratic senator said on Sunday.
Hush, now. The adults are having a conversation.
Can somebody please explain to me WTF the Republicans are trying to accomplish.WASHINGTON, Dec 10 (Reuters) - The White House will step up its engagement with U.S. lawmakers trying to strike a bipartisan deal that would provide military aid for Ukraine and Israel while tightening U.S. border security, a Democratic senator said on Sunday.
Republicans have insisted that additional funding for Ukraine must be paired with major U.S. border security changes but a bipartisan group of senators trying to broker a compromise have made little progress with less than a week before the U.S. Congress leaves for a Christmas break.
White House to intensify push for Ukraine aid and border security deal
The White House will step up its engagement with U.S. lawmakers trying to strike a bipartisan deal that would provide military aid for Ukraine and Israel while tightening U.S. border security, a Democratic senator said on Sunday.
Biden STARTED with a proposal that included Ukraine, Israel and Border components. IIRC the initial proposal had $61 billion for Ukraine and $14 billion each for Israel and the Border.
So when the article says "Republicans have insisted that additional funding for Ukraine must be paired with major U.S. border security" what does that mean? It's already in there. Are we just nitpicking the details or are there major differences?
Either way, why are supposedly reputable media like Reuters making it sound like Biden hasn't ALREADY agreed to major border funding?
They want no money for Ukraine. Putin owns them. Expect similar positions from MAGA when Putin invades the Baltics, Poland, Moldova, Slovakia and Romania.
When Russia seemed to be doing better in this war, Moldova was a plausible next target. Georgia might be as well. The rest strike me as dusted-off domino silliness we use to scare ourselves and justify more money for the MIC.
Meanwhile, the Republicans are making noises like they are willing to give Ukraine money, but are they really? You seem to think not, and I respect your opinions.
What are the Rs asking for that the Dems won't agree to? Serious question. Is there a fact-based article somewhere that outlines the sticking points?
What does Biden have to give on the border to get the Rs to fall in line?
What if Biden said he would build the Wall? What could he get for that?
I suggest Biden offers to build the Wall in exchange for the House and Senate passing a resolution declaring 1/6 an "Insurrection." That would be fun. Then there would be a clear argument that Trump can't be President.
What asylum changes do they want? Why don't they just pass a bill in the House that changes them? They have the majority, after all. If the changes are reasonable, that seems like the way to go.
Russia hasn’t stopped invading its neighbors for very long. This behavior dates back close to 500 years.
Putin historically has invaded a neighboring country, let the dust settle for a few years, re-arm and then invade another country. It is just a matter of when before Putin or a successor tests how committed we are to protecting NATO and how committed some in NATO are to defending their fellow member states. Fortunately Poland has taken the threat seriously and armed themselves accordingly.
Last edited:
Ukraine 3 different times but there were a couple prior to that.
Ukraine invasion: how Vladimir Putin built his career on waging war | Ukraine | The Guardian
The Russian president’s career is steeped in blood. But the invasion of Ukraine is more ambitious, and risky, than anything the Russian president has attempted before
The First Time Putin Tried to Invade a Foreign Country
During the Kosovo war in 1999, Vladimir Putin, who was the Russian national security advisor at the time, backed a dangerous plan that almost led to NATO exchanging fire with Russian troops. Here’s what Putin learned from the incident, and what the West probably should have.
www.americanprogress.org
Why do Dems act like they're against tax cuts? Remember the Bush tax cuts? Obama and the Dems railed against them, calling them "the most destructive thing Bush ever did to the country". Then he got elected, had every vote needed to end them, and what did he do? He continued them.
I was going to say "other than Ukraine" but didn't think I needed to.Ukraine 3 different times but there were a couple prior to that.
Ukraine invasion: how Vladimir Putin built his career on waging war | Ukraine | The Guardian
The Russian president’s career is steeped in blood. But the invasion of Ukraine is more ambitious, and risky, than anything the Russian president has attempted beforeamp.theguardian.com
The First Time Putin Tried to Invade a Foreign Country
During the Kosovo war in 1999, Vladimir Putin, who was the Russian national security advisor at the time, backed a dangerous plan that almost led to NATO exchanging fire with Russian troops. Here’s what Putin learned from the incident, and what the West probably should have.
It's hard to make the case that Putin will inevitably invade countries other than Ukraine on grounds that he's has done so many times before, if the only other times were also Ukraine.
Clearly Putin has a hard on for Ukraine. And, as I said, I'd be nervous if I were Moldova and Georgia, so we shouldn't nap on them. Those aside, I think the belief that Russia rolls into the Baltics or Poland or pretty much anywhere else isn't very realistic.
It bothers me that our political leaders have that dubious threat on a loop. It reminds me of the domino theory, as I already mentioned; and it also reminds me of Team Bush's "mushroom clouds over American cities." Whenever we exaggerate like that, I get very uncomfortable.
Actually he didn't have every vote to end them. If you will recall, the Rs weren't going to extend unemployment benefits in the first year of their recession.
Obama bargained away making Bush tax cuts permanent in exchange for temporary help for workers. Just one of many bad deals Obama made, but it can be argued he had little choice.
Which poses more of a threat? Russia bordering Western Europe or Russia not bordering Western Europe? This really isn't a hard concept.
There's a choice?
If Ukraine joins the EU and NATO, Russia will border Western Europe. If Russia swallows Ukraine, Russia will border Western Europe.
The window when the choice you pose was possible has closed. Ukraine can no longer be a peaceful buffer zone.
Yes. There currently is a choice. Also, if a choice needs to be made I would hope it would be on our terms and not Putin's.
More accurate to say ‘the Establishment’, than ‘Team Bush’.
"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons."
-- Ex President Bill Clinton, Jul. 22, 2003 (Interview with CNN Larry King)
I asked very direct questions of the top people in the CIA and people who'd served in the Clinton administration. And they said they believed that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or had the components of weapons or the ability to quickly make weapons of mass destruction. What we're worried about is an A-bomb in a Ryder truck in New York, in Washington and St. Louis. It cannot happen. We have to prevent it from happening.
-- Rep. Richard Gephardt (D, MO) Nov. 2, 2003
Last edited:
There's a choice whether and how we robustly support Ukraine. But not on your question of whether Russia will border Western Europe. That option is off the table, unless I'm missing something.
