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Parents say students at Arizona school were told to remove MAGA gear, one was suspended...

Students shall not wear clothing that display messages that are vulgar, offensive, obscene, or libelous; that demean others on the basis of race, color, religion, creed, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, or disability; that promote alcohol or drug use or violence; or that are otherwise contrary to the school’s educational mission. The school administration retains the final discretion to determine that the garment or accessory meets the dress code. Some exceptions may be made for uniforms, formal attire, and/or costumes.

This part seems pretty straightforward to me: It was Spirit Week, the theme of the day was Party In The USA. The school district, in their discretion, determined that the students' attire and other materials were not in line with the theme.

What's not clear is if the school meted out punishment after the school day ended without prior warning. I would also be curious if there was any other politically-charged clothing that went unenforced.
 
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OrlandNole said:
Students shall not wear clothing that display messages that are vulgar, offensive, obscene, or libelous; that demean others on the basis of race, color, religion, creed, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, or disability; that promote alcohol or drug use or violence; or that are otherwise contrary to the school’s educational mission. The school administration retains the final discretion to determine that the garment or accessory meets the dress code. Some exceptions may be made for uniforms, formal attire, and/or costumes.

This part seems pretty straightforward to me: It was Spirit Week, the theme of the day was Party In The USA. The school district, in their discretion, determined that the students' attire and other materials were not in line with the theme.

What's not clear is if the school meted out punishment after the school day ended without prior warning. I would also be curious if there was any other politically-charged clothing that went unenforced.
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I don't think this is being debated here. I think the issue people have is that they used their discretion inappropriately. Maybe not, but that's what is looks like is being argued.
 
FAUlty Gator said:
I don't think this is being debated here. I think the issue people have is that they used their discretion inappropriately. Maybe not, but that's what is looks like is being argued.
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Agreed. But it's not clear from the article whether it was applied consistently or appropriately.
 
Joes Place said:
Tinker doesn't address the "disruptive" aspect, which is what is alleged here.
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What? You're joking right? Please learn about Tinker before you go any further.

I mean the "Tinker Test" is also called the "Social DISRUPTION" test. It's right in the name. And of course, since it looks like there was no disruption you should be arguing on their behalf.

They got pulled in AFTER school for chrissakes. How can you disrupt school when it's not in session? NO ONE was bothered by them. And yet, here you are claiming that due to disruption they shouldn't be allowed to wear stuff supporting a current president...after school. Crazy.
 
FAUlty Gator said:
And of course, since it looks like there was no disruption you should be arguing on their behalf.

They got pulled in AFTER school for chrissakes. How can you disrupt school when it's not in session?
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...by engaging in disruptive behavior earlier, and school officials tracking them down later in the day....

Disruptive behavior was alleged in one or more new briefs on this. And, as I've already stated a couple times, we will eventually see if those claims hold merit or not. But that is what has been claimed. When I said Tinker doesn't address "disruptive behavior", I meant it doesn't "protect" it under the guise of free speech.
 
Joes Place said:
...by engaging in disruptive behavior earlier, and school officials tracking them down later in the day....

Disruptive behavior was alleged in one or more new briefs on this. And, as I've already stated a couple times, we will eventually see if those claims hold merit or not. But that is what has been claimed. When I said Tinker doesn't address "disruptive behavior", I meant it doesn't "protect" it under the guise of free speech.
Click to expand...


Well...with all of this in mind, you should be defending these kids...especially since there in nothing in the school handbook about not wearing political messages on their clothes.

The school is obviously lying. They now say that the kids weren't brought into the office for their MAGA gear but because they were "causing a disruption". However, EIGHT students throughout the day were sent to the office. All of them for wearing MAGA gear. What a coincidence!

It's one thing to discipline students for wearing political clothing, but when you lie about it, and pretend it's not the reason, it's disgraceful. Hold your ground if you believe in what you are doing. Obviously, these administrators know they screwed up...enough to change their story, anyway.

Perry High School Students & MAGA Hats Suspension: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

1. The Students Wore MAGA Hats for ‘Party in the USA’ Day & Were Told to Remove Them

2. One Student Said a Coach Made Him Do 1,000 Up-Downs for Wearing MAGA Clothing

3. The Students Were Sent to the Office for Taking Pictures After School. One Student Was Told She Was Part of a ‘Disruption’ & Was Suspended.

4. The High School Principal Said the Students Were Disciplined for Causing Disruptions & Not Complying with Safety Requests, Not Because of Their MAGA Clothing

5. The School’s Handbook Does Not Say Students Can’t Wear Clothes with Political Messages


https://heavy.com/news/2019/03/perry-high-school-students-maga-hat-suspension/
 
FAUlty Gator said:
Well...with all of this in mind, you should be defending these kids...
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No. I shouldn't.

The school's actions could be entirely legal and reasonable.
Not saying this IS what happened, but perhaps:

  1. Kids wear MAGA gear to Spirit Day
  2. Kids in MAGA gear create disruptions, harass minority students during the day
  3. Admin and teachers observe harassment, and attempt to root out the bad apples
  4. Admin toward end of day after multiple reports instructs teachers/security to photo kids in MAGA gear to ID perps; also tells them to change and not wear it again
  5. Victims of harassment ID perps from both immediate/observed harassment AND from photos taken of kids who participated in it, but could not be observed at the time
If the "outfits" were indeed creating problems, then they just lost themselves the right to wear it - perhaps based on a minority of kids wearing it misbehaving, but that's how it works.
 
FAUlty Gator said:
5. The School’s Handbook Does Not Say Students Can’t Wear Clothes with Political Messages
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Sure, but if a bunch of them wore political clothing AND harassed others AND got other kids in MAGA gear to play Lord of the Flies at school and join in, that's where the problems are. And if it was ONLY those wearing gear creating disruptions, then it kinda makes sense to gather evidence/info on as many as possible to root out the bad apples.

Kinda like "racial profiling" when there was a black perp, but only MAGA gear this time...
 
Joes Place said:
Sure, but if a bunch of them wore political clothing AND harassed others AND got other kids in MAGA gear to play Lord of the Flies at school and join in, that's where the problems are. And if it was ONLY those wearing gear creating disruptions, then it kinda makes sense to gather evidence/info on as many as possible to root out the bad apples.

Kinda like "racial profiling" when there was a black perp, but only MAGA gear this time...
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Yeah...but you're making up the whole "harassing others/ Lord of the Flies" nonsense. If anything, there is only proof that they were the ones getting harassed. Again, everything you're using as reasoning points to the fact that you should be defending these kids.
 
FAUlty Gator said:
I don't think this is being debated here. I think the issue people have is that they used their discretion inappropriately. Maybe not, but that's what is looks like is being argued.
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And such arguments are fruitless. Trying to put a “objective” in a “subjective” never works. These folks can argue till the cows come home But until the “rule” is clarified, it is an unwinnable argument. I can’t believe some of the crAp “adults” argue about....sets a bad example.
 
Joes Place said:
No. I shouldn't.

The school's actions could be entirely legal and reasonable.
Not saying this IS what happened, but perhaps:

  1. Kids wear MAGA gear to Spirit Day
  2. Kids in MAGA gear create disruptions, harass minority students during the day
Click to expand...
Why do you keep saying "harassing minority students"? Where does it say they did that? And if their gear "causes disruptions", how did it do so? By kids who hate the president harassing them? Then that would be the fault of the kids doing the harassing...which was not the MAGA kids.
 
FAUlty Gator said:
Why do you keep saying "harassing minority students"? Where does it say they did that? And if their gear "causes disruptions", how did it do so? By kids who hate the president harassing them? Then that would be the fault of the kids doing the harassing...which was not the MAGA kids.
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Again, I was pointing out to conditions that WOULD make their actions completely reasonable.

And, as noted, there have been claims that these students WERE being disruptive, or causing disruption. Which I've pointed out at least 3 times already. And I've also noted that details on the "disruption" have not been made clear.
 
joelbc1 said:
And such arguments are fruitless. Trying to put a “objective” in a “subjective” never works. These folks can argue till the cows come home But until the “rule” is clarified, it is an unwinnable argument. I can’t believe some of the crAp “adults” argue about....sets a bad example.
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Oh...so your kid gets suspended for wearing a piece of clothing supporting Obama, and you say arguing about it is "fruitless"? Just take the suspension where administrators make shit up about the incident and move on. Yeah...sure. Weren't you just in another thread pointing to the prodigal son as some sort of forgive and forget mea culpa? You're OK with letting an ISIS member getting off the hook, but don't think we should concern ourselves with looking into the suspension of kids for wearing a president hat on USA day. Nice consistency.
 
Joes Place said:
No. That is the claim made by the administrators thus far.
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Well we know for a fact that the student was told she was suspended for 10 days TEN DAYS and was made to do 1,000 up downs by an adult coach for wearing the shirt and you don't see that as the students being harassed?
 
FAUlty Gator said:
Well we know for a fact that the student was told she was suspended for 10 days TEN DAYS and was made to do 1,000 up downs by an adult coach for wearing the shirt and you don't see that as the students being harassed?
Click to expand...

For "wearing the shirt"? Or being disruptive in school?
 
FAUlty Gator said:
Oh...so your kid gets suspended for wearing a piece of clothing supporting Obama, and you say arguing about it is "fruitless"? Just take the suspension where administrators make shit up about the incident and move on. Yeah...sure. Weren't you just in another thread pointing to the prodigal son as some sort of forgive and forget mea culpa? You're OK with letting an ISIS member getting off the hook, but don't think we should concern ourselves with looking into the suspension of kids for wearing a president hat on USA day. Nice consistency.
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JFC FAU....I never said anything close to that? Just how friggin’ obtuse are you?
What I said was..l..,until thevterms are defined in this argument, there can be no solution for either side. The poor victims here ( the parents) are trying to argue an objective by applying a subjective rule...apples and oranges. In this case, the Administration “wins” but a better more specific rule should be written. I don’t give a shit what happens here....but also, I don’t believe any politics, either side, is appropriate for a school day dedicated to “ party”. But dammit FAU, your reading skills need improving here. :rolleyes:
 
Joes Place said:
For "wearing the shirt"? Or being disruptive in school?
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You think those girls were suddenly disruptive...in PE?

This certainly sounds like harassment to me. And if you're against harassment, then you should be on the side of the students here.

Dupuis said that throughout the day, different teachers and faculty asked him to remove his MAGA clothes.

"She was like, 'that's very disrespectful' and 'you should not be wearing that' and 'take this off, if I see you with it again you'll get in trouble. I'll write you up, I'll tell your coach," said Dupuis.
 
FAUlty Gator said:
You think those girls were suddenly disruptive...in PE?

This certainly sounds like harassment to me. And if you're against harassment, then you should be on the side of the students here.

Dupuis said that throughout the day, different teachers and faculty asked him to remove his MAGA clothes.

"She was like, 'that's very disrespectful' and 'you should not be wearing that' and 'take this off, if I see you with it again you'll get in trouble. I'll write you up, I'll tell your coach," said Dupuis.
Click to expand...

I'm saying that you can rarely rely on students to give you the entire story. Particularly white yuppie entitled students.
 
https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/3417172002

Chandler Unified says Perry High students wearing MAGA gear harassed other students

Perry High School officials said a March 1 “Party in the USA” spirit day where students wore President Donald Trump’s “Make America Great Again” attire led to “heightened tensions among students.”

In an April 8 letter to the Arizona Attorney General’s Office, Cathleen Dooley, the school district's attorney, wrote that a group of students wearing Trump gear verbally harassed other students during lunch. The letter notes there were videos of the incident and school officials interviewed students.

At least one student allegedly called a classmate a “p--sy liberal” and the group was chanting “Trump,” the attorney wrote.

Dooley’s letter came in response to an Attorney General’s Office inquiry, prompted by state lawmakers, into whether school staff infringed upon students’ free speech rights during the spirit day after some students and a parent said school staff ordered kids to remove Trump clothing and accessories.

A district spokesman said students were not asked to put away any gear other than a banner after the lunchtime incident.

A mother who confronted school administrators after the incident, Jennifer Farris, and her attorney, said they intend to submit their own response to the AG's Office by the end of the week.

Perry High School, on Queen Creek Road in Gilbert, is part of the Chandler Unified School District.


Parents' complaint about harassment
The district’s response provides greater insight into last month's controversy that led some students and parents to question whether school officials were trying to censor students’ free speech rights.

During lunch, a school administrator asked a student to put away a Trump banner that he was wearing as a cape. A district spokesman told The Arizona Republic at the time that the student was asked to put away the banner following a verbal altercation among students.

Dooley's letter, obtained by The Republic through a public records request, provides greater detail on that altercation.

The letter says school administrators began investigating after two parents complained that their students were harassed on campus.

According to the letter, a student’s mother called Principal Dan Serrano after lunch and said students “had surrounded an African-American student chanting Trump slogans.”

The parent didn’t identify the student but said she had video of the incident. The parent later met with administrators but refused to show them the video, the letter says.

Another student’s mother reported to the school that “there was a 'Trump rally going on' at the campus” and that video circulating on social media showed students arguing, according to the letter.

Dooley wrote that the parents believed pro-Trump students were targeting students who weren’t wearing Trump gear and were concerned for their children’s safety. A third parent said he was concerned that Perry wasn’t a good fit for his daughter if this was a normal occurrence at the school, Dooley said in the letter.

According to the district’s response, Serrano was unaware of the incident, having spent the morning dealing with a bat infestation. He instructed Clint Beauer, dean of students, to investigate the incident.

Beauer and another administrator interviewed students and reported that there were “heightened tensions among students after the assembly,” and that some students were putting Trump flags in students’ faces as they left the assembly and headed to lunch, the letter says.

One student told officials that she was walking to lunch with her friend when a group of male students began yelling at them. One student called her friend the epithet cited above and put his Trump shirt in their faces, asking, “Y’all like my shirt?”

Other students also claimed to be called the profane name.

Another student told officials that while she was walking to lunch a student called her a “fat ghetto white girl” and a profane name because she was walking too slow. She said another student called her and her friend an obscenity after they said they didn’t want a Trump flag, according to the district's letter.

A male student who administrators interviewed said he tried to de-escalate the situation but the students wearing MAGA gear began yelling at him, according to the district's response.

A video, which school officials reviewed, confirmed the students were chanting “Trump” and that at least one student called another the obscenity.
None of the students were disciplined.

School officials "determined that there were insufficient grounds to discipline any of the students who were alleged to have been chanting "Trump" and making offensive statements to other students,” Dooley wrote.

After-school incident
The district’s response also offers details about an exchange between a school resource officer and a group of students wearing Trump gear that were asked to leave campus while taking pictures after school.

Dooley wrote that after seeing the students taking photos with the Trump banner, the officer called an assistant principal to ask whether he should order them to leave given the lunchtime incident involving the flag. The administrator directed the officer to ask the students to leave.

The students were not asked to leave because of the Trump banner, but because students who aren’t attending extracurricular activities or tutoring are often asked to leave campus once school is dismissed, Dooley wrote.

The students didn’t comply with the officer’s orders and continued taking pictures. The officer didn’t know the students’ identities, so he took a photo of the group and shared it with the administration, she wrote.

Most of the students left. The officer asked one of the students who remained to identify herself, but she refused, according to the district's response. She also refused to identify herself to administrators, who told her that refusing would result in a suspension, the letter says.

That student was suspended for three days.

CUSD: No First Amendment rights’ violations
Dooley wrote in her response that while the district understands it has a duty to protect students’ First Amendment rights, the incident doesn’t “implicate First Amendment law because no student was disciplined for speech-related activities.”

The district maintains that students weren’t asked to remove political attire and students weren’t disciplined for what they were wearing, she wrote.

The one student was suspended for refusing to provide school officials with her name, which violates school policy.

Dooley wrote that Perry students have always been allowed to wear clothing with political messages and there have never been any incidents.

 
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Chuck C said:
According to the district’s response, Serrano was unaware of the incident, having spent the morning dealing with a bat infestation.

Lol, WTF?
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I laughed at that too. I assume it's his go-to excuse.

"Honey! Why didn't you do the dishes like I asked?"

"Ahhh...I was...I was... I was dealing with a bat infestation! Yeah...bats! There were so many bats!"
 
ping72 said:
Clue for you: anything used to send a message to other ppl that they are hated or unwanted is hate speech.
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The SCOTUS says there is no exclusion of hate speech from the protections of the First Amendment. The only time hate speech is actionable is if it can be shown to be likely to create imminent violence.
What type of hatred were these girls demonstrating by wearing red?
 
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Joes Place said:
If your kid was at risk to be harassed/beaten up by white yuppies, would you complain?.
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So...the clothing made these kids want to beat people up? Geesh...how silly can you be here?

White yuppies?

So, you're good with kids being told to take off HOPE shirts because those same white yuppies get angered by them, right? Yeah...OK.

In other words, let's cater all schools to white yuppies who act like ass holes.
 
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Chuck C said:
According to the district’s response, Serrano was unaware of the incident, having spent the morning dealing with a bat infestation.

Lol, WTF?
Click to expand...

Bats carry diseases, including rabies. So "lol, WTF?"

FWIW, one of the older buildings on the campus I used to work for (a Fortune 500 company) had a bat infestation in their ventilation systems ~10 yrs ago. They closed the building for about a week - no one was allowed in once they'd assessed the issue, until they cleaned fumigated due to the risks. They may have found traces of the rabies virus and said "nope", everyone go home - I don't know, I was working offsite that week, and only learned access was denied upon returning at the end of a I was resupplying for a project; I was only allowed in if escorted by security.

I think people who were in offices they found bat droppings were recommended to get the rabies vaccines on company dime.

So, yeah. It can be serious shit.
 
School officials really shouldn't be telling the children to "take their clothes off" schools have been getting in enough trouble for employees having students take their clothing off.
 
lucas80 said:
For those of you supporting the MAGA clothing wearers, I guarantee you that their moms would piss you off to no end the other 98 percent of the time. They seem like jewels.
The kids learned a lesson. Mess with the bull, you’ll get the horns. As I tell everyone at work, no politics. It only leads to problems. This crew went looking for atttention, and now they are oppressed. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I am sure some of those mom's are hot, I'd like to meet them.
 
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