Doing yoga on the flight back to Japan?
Penn State Dual
- Thread starter BIG10MANIAC
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I like guys that go after it. I love PSU but Bartlett gives me headaches for example. Everyone loves offense. I know defense is important, but I like someone who pushes the pace.
Mental training is part of coaching and a more laid back analytical style will lead to better results long term. If you watched the match the Iowa wrestlers were cheering on their teammates on the mat while the PSU appeared to be relaxed and watching the proceedings like they were in class. How often does Sanderson look excited? I think I saw him get excited once when Bo won the title against Martin, clinching the team title.
You should probably read what you wrote above and reflect. I hope you were day-drinking when you typed this yesterday.
Nah I stand by what I wrote. PSU is head and shoulders above everybody talent wise. That’s why they’re winning.
Correlation does not equal causation. There are many styles of coaching and many ways to be successful.
I will say that it is a BIG part and much bigger than many PSU fans want to admit, for some odd reason. I don't really understand why that bothers so many of them, because as long as they are winning who cares?
But, I digress. They are NOT just winning because of the top talent they recruit. Only a very select few coaching staffs would have any chance at winning as often as PSU does with the same talent and I am not sure ANY of them could actually match it.
Trade recruits between Iowa and PSU over the same time frame and I do not believe PSU wins more than Iowa has. However, I also don't believe Iowa wins as many times as PSU has.
Simply put, PSU is the absolute best at taking top talent and making them STAY top talent. No matter how good they are coming out of High School nearly all recruits need considerable work to become NCAA Champs. PSU is as good at it as any staff has ever been...
I largely agree with you, although I think Iowa does win just as much with the same recruits. But mindset, psychology, culture, or whatever you want to call it is simply not the primary reason for the disparity between PSU and Iowa in terms of results. It’s important, but overall Iowa is losing the recruiting battle massively, and that needs to be the main focus if the program wants to improve.
There is no way Iowa would win just as much with the same recruits. Especially in the upper weights the Iowa staff is borderline trash in regards to technique etc.
So glad you're group agrees and will stay right were you are. Not changing with the times is a solid strategy. Good luck with that 😂
The higher you go on the food chain the harder it will be to improve to be the best. That’s when the little things will matter and you find out they’re not little things.
Why are they losing the recruiting battle? Is it passionate fan base? Nope. Is it tradition? Nope.
Money? Seem like Iowa is ok there. It has to be other things and it’s probably coming down to the coach and how he runs things.
Carl went into the most fertile recruiting ground in the country with huge name recognition as a young, undefeated 4x champ and Olympic gold medalist. It’s like Gable coming to Iowa. The pedigree alone draws recruits, regardless of the coaching approach.
And he started at psu when?
Of course psu is getting the best recruits and of course they’re winning with them. It it’s how they’re winning and how often they’re winning. In the last ten years I think psu has more individual title winners than the next three schools. Their win % in the finals is only exceeded by Missouri .
Then check the semi finals, I think he’s winning at 90%. This goes beyond the best wrestlers . His best wrestlers are peaking better, staying healthy better, and winning at a higher % than anyone else out there and it’s. It even close.
That’s where the only factors come into play.
Top talent, top coaching sure. But it's the way Sanderson has built this empire. Everything is designed to attract and develop wrestlers who have aspirations beyond winning national championships. That's a goal of course, but the coaching style, philosophy, and structure tied to the NLWC is to attract athletes that want World titles and Olympic Gold as the ultimate achievement in the sport. They emphasize goals beyond college but put the support system in place to help make it happen. Kids are seeing this and realize that it can all happen for them at PSU. This is where Sanderson has taken their program and kind of left others behind. I'm not sure what the answer is but Sanderson put the structure in place for a dynasty and it's working. Yep, he has the financial support, the recruiting base and all of that, but it was his blueprint and vision that built this monster. He truly understands what it takes to be successful at the highest levels and has put that structure together to attract and develop top talent.
I’ve already said, several times, that I’m very impressed by his overall philosophy, culture, etc. He’s a uniquely elite coach who found a sleeping giant, location-wise, and woke it up in historic fashion. Of course PSU has more individual title winners than the next three schools. They have stockpiled more talent than any team in history. Their recruiting is unprecendented. Multiple studs and bluechips at nearly every weight, committing despite no clear path to starting. They have the best room in the country by far, with elite coaching, with the best training partners, which leads to the best results. To imply that this is all the result of having a different “mindset” than the Brands is disingenuous
Iowa fans have progressed through two stages of rationalizing Penn State's success during the Cael years. 1) Cael has to be violating NCAA rules and 2) Cael can recruit but can not develop. After reading this thread it looks like the Iowa fan base and perhaps even the coaches have reached the third stage: acceptance of Penn State's superiority. It is disappointing to see all the pessimism. Tomorrow is another day. Dynasties don't last forever.
I think people overstate the "sleeping giant" thing with Cael going to PSU. I think he would have gotten ISU over the top too. People act like he was there for years and years getting beat by Iowa. He was there 3 years and finished top 5 all three years. He never finished a full, four year recruiting cycle.
“… despite no clear path to starting.” You hit the nail on the head here. There is a mutual selection process going on. Some kids really aim for a title or nothing. When you hear the interviews there’s a sentiment that if they can’t win the spot in the room they weren’t going to win a title anyway. The kid that doesn’t take that challenge is wired a little differently, and is potentially at a disadvantage.
Huge difference between what he is doing at PSU and getting ISU over the top.. PSU doesn't need to get on a plane to recruit kids. The best talent in the country can drive to all their home meets...... Oh and they have more money than the next 5 schools combined. ISU would be better than Iowa right now though because the best Iowa kids would be going to Ames.
No, in Iowa he would have to fight over the recruits with the others.
In PA, he has first choice of talent, plus extra financial support.
I am saying Cael is a better coach and the Iowa kids that pick the hawks would be going to ISU because of Cael. Pa is 100% the reason they are so dominate right now and Cael would not be able to do that in Iowa. He would out recruit Iowa for Iowa kids though.
He's not nearly as reliant on PA talent as everybody on here makes him out to be
125 - Michigan
133 - California
141 - Arizona (wrestled at Sem in PA)
149 - NJ (back up Kasak PA)
157 - PA
165 - Wisconsin
174 - PA
184 - California
197 - Maryland
285 - Minnesota
I know what you are saying, and I just disagree. BTW, that's dominant (adj.), not dominate (v).
No doubt. But at Iowa State, he wouldn't have had such a solid position to recruit from.
His success truly catapulted DUE to PA access and it still builds a very strong base to the room, This is true, even in years when many of the starters aren't PA recruits. Make no mistake, homegrown talent is PARAMOUNT to every team's overall success.
After that, you simply cannot argue that ISU is a better destination as a selling point over PSU. On top of that, I think it opened up a great pipeline into NJ as well due greatly to proximity...
Look, Cael is a monster, but you can't possibly downplay how big it was to go to PA, let alone PSU. Without the SEC competing in wrestling, you could argue no Athletic Department is stronger except probably tOSU and the same would be said for overall athletic recognition nationally.
Love him or hate him, Cael is a very smart and calculating individual. He knew EXACTLY what PSU was and had zero issue leaving his Alma Mater to go there. That, in and of itself(not voice texting this time so the saying is accurate!), is very telling...
If memory serves Cael went to sleep planning to stay. Woke up having changed his mind. Caels making a Rash decision.? I think not, (pointing up)
Where did I ever hint at making a “rash” decision? All I said was he left his Alma Mater to go there. Not many coaches do that unless the job has something very special to offer…
thank you for that.... I don't do words good... YOUR nuts if you don't think Cael would be doing better at ISU than Brands is at Iowa but everyone is entitled to be wrong.
PS: threw in some errors for you!!
What you are referencing is listed below and comes from this article:
https://theathletic.com/4308088/2023/03/15/cael-sanderson-penn-state-wrestling-ncaa/
Sanderson interviewed on a Monday and visited campus in the middle of the week. By 8 a.m. Friday, he needed to give Curley an answer. Thursday night, Sanderson went into a sauna with his two trusted assistants to discuss the job.
“We left the sauna having decided to stay at Iowa State,” Sanderson said via email. “We had spent a lot of time building the program. We had a tough team coming back, great recruiting class committed and were simply comfortable. Why would we leave? I talked to my dad on the phone late that night, and he basically said, ‘Why would you leave with all the time you have spent and what you have going on at Iowa State?’
“I spent the night on my knees in prayer, and sometime in the middle of the night decided that we were going to Penn State. That was it. As difficult as it would be, I didn’t question that it was the correct decision again. Early in the morning I told Coach Cody and Coach Casey that we were going to Penn State. They said, ‘OK let’s do it.’ I called Tim Curley and told him we were coming.”
It is an interesting “what if”… Taylor, Nickal, RBY come to mind as out of state kids who took a plane to come to PSU. Brooks and Dean are also not PA kids. There is no reason to think the non-PA kids wouldn’t have given ISU a long hard look. . Zain, Nolf and Starocci probably would have as well. Of course, there is no way to know, but the appeal of wrestling for Sanderson would still be there where ever he is coaching
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