Drew Ott was totally hosed by the ncaa.... his situation is why so many of us dread the idea of them deciding Kems fate... their past decisions have been awful arbitrary to say the least
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Press Release: Kemerer having season-ending surgery
- Thread starter Blair Sanderson
- Start date
He "made" 141, but was not very effective...
https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/13705/grothus-brody/profile
That's what I was afraid of but better to get them fixed and try to wrestle closer to 100% than to struggle thru a season with multiple serious injuries.
I would guess just wear and tear remember kids are specializing in a sport at a young age and training 11 months a year so theyre using the same muscles and joints over and over.Plus factor in the positions they get into in a match these days years ago we were never in those positions.We cringe at some of the positions they get into in matches just think of the positions they get in during practice when 2 alpha males are going at it with no ref to stop it.I would say way more factors involved into the injury then just putting on muscle.
Kem has a certain “funk” to his style too.... puts his body in some pretty hairy positions.... prevents takedowns but has to wear on a body
Very sad to see this for you guys. Classy kid with great style. Hard to imagine he won't get the MRS. next man up.
Violating HIPPA law and a patient's right to medical privacy vs a message board's right to know
hmmmm....tough call
How these have previously been handled and how they have been handled lately are quite different. Nothing is certain but there is a significantly greater chance for one now than there was before. Jon Buetjer got an extra year for being "Stressed" after getting punched out by his roommate. Tanner Lee got a 6th year due to the "turmoil" of his team changing his offensive coach. He took a RS played two years at Tulane and then was given the full two years to play at Nebby. Two examples of guys who got one and were not even hurt a whole season. Robert Lewis Wash st football got a 6th after missing only one. Mike Thorne Illinois BB player as well. Kyle Kempt of ISU got a 6th year for I don't even know what. Michael Colubiale UCF football seems to be another. Micky Phillippi looks to have gotten a 6th year just due to a transfer.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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So if HIPPA is the concern why do we ever hear about college sports injuries? Why are they often publicly disclosed? I thought HIPPA only applied to health care professionals? If I hear that someone broke their ankle and I see them in a crutch, and I go on to state publicly that they broke their ankle, I'm not violating HIPPA.
Some of you guys are going a little overboard on the whole secrecy thing imo.
HIPAA may apply here because the athletes are under the U if I insurance program plus the training staff are considered health care professionals. Example, with the consent of the wrestler, the trainer tells Tom what the issues are and how long it may take to get back. This is considered a privileged conversation between Tom, the staff and the wrestler. Now, the wrestler may waive all of this and say release the info to the public, I don’t care. But there are a lot of gray areas and room for lawsuits imo. Much of this is up to the individual, not Tom or anybody else.
Not sure if it’s been covered on this thread or not, but I saw that PSUs Anthony Cassar is seeking a 6th year based on medical. He said he’s going to try to put on 10-15 pounds for next year and seemed confident that he’ll be granted the shirt.
HIPAA applies directly to patient information from healthcare providers.
It is correct that the injury is treated as confidential for universities. Not directly HIPAA but much like workplace confidentiality. (Although there are HIPAA guideline around that) However, in these cases they are as guarded as HIPAA as best practice from a legal standpoint. (I do not know how the insurance applies to Tom per se but you are spot on with that connection).
Most coaches do not like to tell about injuries for a lot of reasons but the HIPAA/confidence gives them cover. Every coach has that demon on their shoulder saying “if they know what it is, they will go after it”. While negative to think that way and not how most people operate, it is a thought that give coaches pause.
There is no issue releasing a statement that an athlete is out for the season with no details. Really, no big risk saying it is an injury. Giving details on the injury is another matter. That can only be done with consent of the student/athlete.
Tom has a sense of propriety on anything regarding his team. Even if he was legally permitted to give details, he would not do so without his athlete giving an ok. Just a decent and respectful attitude about privacy.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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I understand the legal confidentially concerns. I just don't understand treating anything injury or sickness related like it's top secret CIA Intel. If it's season ending knee surgery that's gonna be obvious. If a wrestler is out and planning to wrestle injured, it makes sense to keep info from getting out.
Why would schools ever disclose injury details given what you've stated?
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Clark didn't have season ending surgery though. Secrecy made sense in his situation.
Which is my point. When they found out Kemerer was going to be done, they released the info. In others like Spencer, Lugo, Warner, etc, they haven’t.
Should be no brainer in Cassar case..he missed 2 full seasons and part of his redshirt season due to injury. He didn't wrestle in 2016 or 2017
He was not injured during season his redshirt year wasnt it was during the summer? Also he took one of those years totally off to free up scholarship money for Cael so not sure that counts as being injured.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Last year was 2018...he didnt wrestle in 2017 or 2016. I think DonHawkeye may be right that he got injured the summer after redshirt year and didn't wrestle in 2016 or 2017. This is only his 2nd year actually competing (if you don't count the redshirt year)
His may come down to acedemics. Not sure he was even enrolled one of these years. Not sure the committee is gonna just be letting guys take years off just to tack one on at the end.
The thing about disclosing injuries isn't always about that specific athlete's injury or absence for the lineup, it is because it sets a precedence for how coaches report things. If you always report absences for the flu, grades, missing weight and then go "no comment"; that very denial can be considered as an admission of an injury.
Let me try to explain with a non-wrestling story I got told from a friend. He was an elementary principal in a suburb of Milwaukee. He takes a call one day from a male claiming to have a child in a school and he was trying to find him. The conversation went like this:
Male: My son is named Tom Brands. Does Tom Brands go to your school?
Principal: (Crap, he does!) Sir, names of students at our school is confidential, I cannot confirm or deny anyone who goes to school here.
Male: Eureeka! I've found his school. I'll be right there!
Principal: (Double crap!) Sir, as I explained I cannot say either way if any student goes here. Why would you drive here?
Male: Because I've called all the other schools in the Milwaukee Area and they all told me "No". You're the only one to not answer my question, so I know he goes there.
Not that it matters to my point, but some of you may want to know how this ended. The principal pulls the copy of the birth certificate- no dad is listed. Calls PD and the mom. Male arrives with an updated birth certificate with his name. Police look at birth certificate and allow dad access to his son.
The point is that if you treat all absences from the lineup the same, then you never have to worry about letting out secrets when there is something specific you do not want to disclose. Tom usually says something general like "he's banged up, but he's good to go if we need him". He says this if the wrestler is 1 week away or 1 year away from taking the mat.
"We don't divulge information that might be helpful to the enemy" For that reason, I am 100% fine with Tom never telling me why a wrestler isn't in the lineup. And it's why I always post that SNL video about Desert Storm Press Conference when people speculate about injuries and their severity.
Correct, I believe it was the 2015-2016 season that he un-enrolled, or just didn't enroll.
2014-2015 RS Year - Went 12-6
2015-2016 Was not enrolled at PSU
2016-2017 Enrolled but did not wrestle a single match
2017-2018 RSJR Year - Went 16-2
2018-2019 RSSR Year - Ongoing
You make a good point about the academics being factored in. Very well could be what prevents him from getting a 6th year. Though if i had to make a prediction, I would say he gets one.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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The issue I have is the inconsistency. We'll see what happens vs ISU but based on Tom's comments after Purdue, I don't anticipate we'll see Lee, Lugo, or Warner. I take no issue with choosing not to disclose the specifics and details with every guy.
If Lee, Lugo, or Warner go vs ISU then we can't take Tom's comments as very meaningful going forward in regards to who will be competing. I think you can maintain transparency without showing your hand.
My foggy recollection was he was hurt prior to start of 2015-16 season (possibly in early practice prior to any competition date), and didn't wrestle that season. Started working his way back and got re-injured during the summer, again didn't wrestle 2016-17.
Again, that's foggy, so I don't stand by it.
EDIT: Now seeing Lax's post, and that seems to make sense. He was definitely injured, though, in 15-16, regardless of enrollment status.
<<If Lee, Lugo, or Warner go vs ISU then we can'ttake Tom's comments as very meaningful going forward in regards to who will be competing. I think you can maintaintransparency without showing your hand.>>
He said that last Sat... And things change by the day and by the hour. Last Friday at noon he wasn't sure who was going to compete at a couple different weights.
Sometimes they decide right before the match is scheduled when a couple guys weigh in.
He said that last Sat... And things change by the day and by the hour. Last Friday at noon he wasn't sure who was going to compete at a couple different weights.
Sometimes they decide right before the match is scheduled when a couple guys weigh in.
Precisely why you stated. For the most part, they are not a big deal but treat it like one until the student clears the road.
Was not trying to upstage. Happens to be one area I work around. You were right. Just adding. Hope you took it that way.
Like I said, HIPAA is just a part. My experience with Tom is he is conservative on stuff like this. If there is some kind or team rule on it, I expect it was around managing the flow of information to keep it controlled.
Yea. Took a break. Been busy. Got to 2 matches so far so...happy.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Yeah that's fair. Obviously Brands can't predict the future and doesn't know the exact date when guys will be ready to go. I'm not trying to nitpick, but if he doesn't know when guys will be available, then why say in the press conference to expect to see that line-up out there going forward. To me, it'd be a lot more optimistic and realistic to just state "we have some guys dealing with various health issues and hope to have them back soon" he doesn't have to specify when they'll be available, but to state right after Purdue that the current line-up is what to expect going forward..that's gonna cause question marks if Lee, Lugo, or Warner go vs ISU.
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