Progressivism is...elitism

[William Bonney]

Torbee says that this is progressivism do the board "progressives" agree?


A truly progressive movement is against corruption. It is fundamentally opposed to the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few at the expense of the many.

A truly progressive movement is against oppression. Progressive movements have always fought, and must continue to fight, for the vulnerable and underprivileged — workers, the sick and powerless, and every other minority group that is marginalized by existing power structures.

A truly progressive movement is against discrimination. We are an egalitarian movement, with a belief in the fundamental equality of human beings. Discrimination is a form of oppression, and a movement cannot be egalitarian and against oppression while tolerating discrimination.

A truly progressive movement is against privatization of the public sphere. We must be fundamentally opposed to the mass privatization of goods and services that should remain public: healthcare, education, and other necessities for a decent life.

A truly progressive movement is for democracy. Democracy is more than voting at the ballot box. Democracy is the constant pursuit of civic engagement and public involvement in the direction of society. Without democracy, the fundamentally American principles of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are unattainable.

The progressive movement is for transparency. If we the people do not know what is happening in the halls of power — whether in the Capitol building, the statehouse, or the corporate boardroom — we cannot hold power accountable.

The progressive movement is thus for accountability of those in power. In the modern era, this includes the fight to get big money out of the political process and to reform the electoral system so that we can elect those who are best fit to serve the people, not simply the powerful.

A truly progressive movement is for freedom of the press, also known as “the fourth estate.” The purpose of the press is to combine transparency, accountability, and education. Without a free and responsible media, we will never be able to inform the public or hold power accountable.

The progressive movement is for non-violence. While there are examples in the past of violence in progressive movements, these were aberrations and desperate last resorts, not fundamental strategies of the movement.

Attaining these goals is impossible in a state of anarchy. Thus, anyone who is truly progressive opposes anarchy.

Principles of a Modern Progressive Movement

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Its not an all or nothing proposition. Simple as that.

 

[naturalmwa]

I think that list is a fine start, but it’s incomplete. I think the short deflection of progressivism is the aim towards equality of opportunity. So there are big planks about healthcare, education and civic services that aren’t expressly listed here.

The need for wealth parity, expansion of the middle class at the expense of the extremes. We see every election how the wealthy buy elections and hence buy legislation. Wealth inequality must be addressed to maintain our democratic ideals.

 

[William Bonney]

equality of opportunity

Opportunity abounds in this country. Some may have an easier path but everyone has the opportunity for advancement.

The need for wealth parity,

This is the definition of socialism. At least you admit it.

expansion of the middle class at the expense of the extremes.

Capitalism (not to be confused with cronyism) is the only thing that has ever accomplished this.

We see every election how the wealthy buy elections and hence buy legislation.

This happens for both sides of the aisle.

Wealth inequality must be addressed to maintain our democratic ideals.

And what are those "ideals" pray tell?

 

[naturalmwa]

Opportunity abounds in this country. Some may have an easier path but everyone has the opportunity for advancement.



This is the definition of socialism. At least you admit it.



Capitalism (not to be confused with cronyism) is the only thing that has ever accomplished this.



This happens for both sides of the aisle.



And what are those "ideals" pray tell?

I see you admit opportunities aren’t equal.

Socialism has always been a part of America and always will be.

Capitalism is always cronyism

My side makes efforts to fight it, your side makes efforts to increase it.

Power to the people.

 

[William Bonney]

Socialism has always been a part of America and always will be.

True, but the lesser the extent the freer the people.

Capitalism is always cronyism

false

My side makes efforts to fight it

Your solutions are akin to cutting off ones head to rid oneself of a headache.

your side makes efforts to increase it.

Not my side.

Power to the people.

Careful what you wish for.

 

[naturalmwa]

True, but the lesser the extent the freer the people.



false



Your solutions are akin to cutting off ones head to rid oneself of a headache.



Not my side.



Careful what you wish for.

You gave up the game. Now our very freedom rests on equality of opportunity. If you’re not a progressive, you’re not for freedom.

nice thread, sad to see it end so soon.

 

[William Bonney]

You gave up the game. Now our very freedom rests on equality of opportunity. If you’re not a progressive, you’re not for freedom.

nice thread, sad to see it end so soon.

Ok boomer

 

[William Bonney]

Then they don’t believe in progressivism. They believe in stripping human rights to get what they want, just like Trump.

Quite the ironic take here.

(pulled from the other thread)

 

[naturalmwa]

Ok boomer

And up goes the white flag to put a point on it. Thank you very much for your contribution. I couldn’t have kicked your tail so quickly without your help.

 

[torbee]

And up goes the white flag to put a point on it. Thank you very much for your contribution. I couldn’t have kicked your tail so quickly without your help.

Hey, I started it. It’s fun to dismantle dumbshits.

 

[William Bonney]

Hey, I started it. It’s fun to dismantle dumbshits.

The only thing you guys are dismantling are strawmen.

 

[Hock-I]

Read the 1936 Soviet Constitution. It’s very similar. Sounds nice, but 100 million human beings lives ended courtesy of the state.

 

[William Bonney]

A truly progressive movement is against corruption. It is fundamentally opposed to the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few at the expense of the many.

I think we can agree on this in principle, our solutions would differ though.

 

[William Bonney]

A truly progressive movement is against oppression. Progressive movements have always fought, and must continue to fight, for the vulnerable and underprivileged — workers, the sick and powerless, and every other minority group that is marginalized by existing power structures.

This is a fine motivation. Now, how are ya'll gonna make it happen?

 

[naturalmwa]

A truly progressive movement is against corruption. It is fundamentally opposed to the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few at the expense of the many.

I think we can agree on this in principle, our solutions would differ though.

Don’t toy with us. Give us your solution.

 

[shank hawk]

In every ‘ism’ one must deal with the inherent fact that power corrupts. In order to have a progressive society there will necessarily be a power structure at the top to address and deal with wealth inequality, oppression, the ‘threat’ of privatization, etc.

Inevitably it will morph into crony progressivism, aka slavery. Pure capitalism (libertarianism) is THE system that enables more freedom and opportunity to reach the greatest number of citizens.

Not perfect; just the best of all the alternatives.

 

[William Bonney]

A truly progressive movement is against discrimination. We are an egalitarian movement, with a belief in the fundamental equality of human beings. Discrimination is a form of oppression, and a movement cannot be egalitarian and against oppression while tolerating discrimination.

You guys realize that you are discriminating against non-progressives, right?

PS - define egalitarian

 

[William Bonney]

A truly progressive movement is against privatization of the public sphere. We must be fundamentally opposed to the mass privatization of goods and services that should remain public: healthcare, education, and other necessities for a decent life.

Who gets to choose what the "necessities for a decent life" are?

 

[naturalmwa]

In every ‘ism’ one must deal with the inherent fact that power corrupts. In order to have a progressive society there will necessarily be a power structure at the top to address and deal with wealth inequality, oppression, the ‘threat’ of privatization, etc.

Inevitably it will morph into crony progressivism, aka slavery. Pure capitalism (libertarianism) is THE system that enables more freedom and opportunity to reach the greatest number of citizens.

Not perfect; just the best of all the alternatives.

Ha! Under pure capitalism one guy owns everything and we’re all his property.

 

[Hock-I]

A truly progressive movement is against corruption. It is fundamentally opposed to the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few at the expense of the many.

I think we can agree on this in principle, our solutions would differ though.

This progressive statement was likely written on a smart device created by a billionaire, while sipping coffee from a billionaire, on a internet platform controlled by a billionaire, getting indoctrinated from a news channels owned by billionaires, surrounded by online products from a billionaire, and the irony is all these collective billionaires listed above agree with the progressive ideals listed. Beautiful, isn’t it!

 

[William Bonney]

A truly progressive movement is for democracy. Democracy is more than voting at the ballot box. Democracy is the constant pursuit of civic engagement and public involvement in the direction of society. Without democracy, the fundamentally American principles of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are unattainable.

Pure democracy is evil. Representative democracy can be evil. Constitutional democracy is only as good as the people entrusted to protect it and their moral fortitude, hence as America's morals have declined so has our societal cohesiveness.

 

[William Bonney]

The progressive movement is for transparency. If we the people do not know what is happening in the halls of power — whether in the Capitol building, the statehouse, or the corporate boardroom — we cannot hold power accountable.

Agreed

 

[William Bonney]

The progressive movement is thus for accountability of those in power. In the modern era, this includes the fight to get big money out of the political process and to reform the electoral system so that we can elect those who are best fit to serve the people, not simply the powerful.

Big money is a problem. Now, how do you propose we "reform" the electoral system.

 

[William Bonney]

A truly progressive movement is for freedom of the press, also known as “the fourth estate.” The purpose of the press is to combine transparency, accountability, and education. Without a free and responsible media, we will never be able to inform the public or hold power accountable.

It would be awesome if you guys took this one seriously.

 

[William Bonney]

The progressive movement is for non-violence. While there are examples in the past of violence in progressive movements, these were aberrations and desperate last resorts, not fundamental strategies of the movement.

The history of socialist progressivism says otherwise. And that history is expansive.

 

[William Bonney]

Attaining these goals is impossible in a state of anarchy. Thus, anyone who is truly progressive opposes anarchy.

I'm sure you guys don't want and endgame steeped in anarchy. Over the years though you guys have used anarchy to further you're gains in the political realm.

 

[shank hawk]

Ha! Under pure capitalism one guy owns everything and we’re all his property.

 

[naturalmwa]

@IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life approves.

 

[William Bonney]

@IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life approves.

It was a completely idiotic statement. How many absolute Monarchies ever practiced free market capitalism?

 

[naturalmwa]

It was a completely idiotic statement. How many absolute Monarchies ever practiced free market capitalism?

Pure free market capitalism has never existed. Why limit this to monarchs?

 

[William Bonney]

Pure free market capitalism has never existed. Why limit this to monarchs?

Because that's the only situation where one man has absolute power.

 

[naturalmwa]

Because that's the only situation where one man has absolute power.

When an absolute monarch runs a nation, they own all the industry too. Call that capitalism if you like. Usually, however the monarch sells monopolies to private companies because the monarch doesn’t want to run corporations.

 

[William Bonney]

Call that capitalism if you like.

You do like to make up your own definitions.

Usually, however the monarch sells monopolies to private companies because the monarch doesn’t want to run corporations.

You just made this up with no factual basis to prove it.

 

[naturalmwa]

You do like to make up your own definitions.



You just made this up with no factual basis to prove it.

Sorry you’re uninformed. Maybe study a topic before you bring it up.

 

[William Bonney]

Sorry you’re uninformed. Maybe study a topic before you bring it up.

Back to the word game. Well, if you've got one card then play it every time.

 

[naturalmwa]

Back to the word game. Well, if you've got one card then play it every time.

You’re my favorite little punching bag.

 

[William Bonney]

Don’t toy with us. Give us your solution.

This is a thread about progressivism. What's your solution?

 

[strummingram]

Like every "ism", it means different things to different people.

Everything in moderation!

 

[naturalmwa]

This is a thread about progressivism. What's your solution?

Nope, I’ve answered several of your questions. It’s your turn. If thread purity is important to you, start a new one.