PSU's "secret"

[HawkMachine]

Penn State Wrestling Club

PSU Sports, college wrestling, stats, schedules, merchandise, clothing, rosters

www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org

I came across this today just trying to gain knowledge on the subject myself. That being weight cutting.

Of course there's no true "secret" but I have a feeling this is one thing that differentiates Iowa and PSU.

How many times have you seen a PSU guy find a way to win late in the third? Those guys hardly ever looked gassed.

Versus how many times an Iowa guy runs out of gas and loses late in the third? Or at least looks extremely gassed.

You read this article and I honestly think it explains some of the reason.

Thoughts?

 

[just_somebody]

Never wrestled, but I assumed this approach is pretty standard any more

Everyone has a descent plan. Even in HS you can only cut so much between weigh ins (which is sometimes skirted by having fewer weighins)

/will defer to others who know way more about both wrestling and specifically hawk wrestling than I do

 

[IAChief32]

Penn State Wrestling Club

PSU Sports, college wrestling, stats, schedules, merchandise, clothing, rosters

www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org

I came across this today just trying to gain knowledge on the subject myself. That being weight cutting.

Of course there's no true "secret" but I have a feeling this is one thing that differentiates Iowa and PSU.

How many times have you seen a PSU guy find a way to win late in the third? Those guys hardly ever looked gassed.

Versus how many times an Iowa guy runs out of gas and loses late in the third? Or at least looks extremely gassed.

You read this article and I honestly think it explains some of the reason.

Thoughts?

Weight is carefully, individually monitored in the Iowa program down to the food/fluids/vitamins etc that they consume. Wrestling used to be this way and may still be with some individuals in college. I would argue that the "some" tends to be in programs that don't have the resources that Iowa and PSU have.

 

[HawkFan1986]

Penn State Wrestling Club

PSU Sports, college wrestling, stats, schedules, merchandise, clothing, rosters

www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org

I came across this today just trying to gain knowledge on the subject myself. That being weight cutting.

Of course there's no true "secret" but I have a feeling this is one thing that differentiates Iowa and PSU.

How many times have you seen a PSU guy find a way to win late in the third? Those guys hardly ever looked gassed.

Versus how many times an Iowa guy runs out of gas and loses late in the third? Or at least looks extremely gassed.

You read this article and I honestly think it explains some of the reason.

Thoughts?

The hardest cut is always the first cut. It gets easier after that because it becomes about weight management. Sometimes mid season that last half a pound can be an absolute bear to get off. Especially if you’re taking one for the team and cutting more than maybe you should. Eat, drink, do it right is a phrase that’s said around the Iowa locker room often. That’s a simplified way of saying be smart about your choices when it comes to weight management. Especially during tourney time.

Some cuts are harder than others and some people are better at cutting than others. Every body is different, and everyone is unique. But to say weight management is the key to PSU’s success is silly. It’s been around for quite some time. It’s pretty universal.

 

[MSU158]

That article is over 10 years old and is NO secret.....today's weight management is very similar and is highly encouraged across college and even in High School. Nutrionists are readilly available at the DI level at pretty much every school I am aware of. High School takes an educated enough coach to get the point across and work with the kids, since they usually don't have access to a nutritionist, but most of the high end kids have already been educated on the weight plan.

The real key factor is the wrestler himself. His appetite and discipline are key. Can you avoid the sugar and bad carbs? Can you avoid eating late at night?

It really isn't rocket science, it is soley about discipline and education on what foods to eat, what drinks to drink and when to and when NOT to eat them and drink them...

 

[TailgateTom]

That article is over 10 years old and is NO secret.....today's weight management is very similar and is highly encouraged across college and even in High School. Nutrionists are readilly available at the DI level at pretty much every school I am aware of. High School takes an educated enough coach to get the point across and work with the kids, since they usually don't have access to a nutritionist, but most of the high end kids have already been educated on the weight plan.

The real key factor is the wrestler himself. His appetite and discipline are key. Can you avoid the sugar and bad carbs? Can you avoid eating late at night?

It really isn't rocket science, it is soley about discipline and education on what foods to eat, what drinks to drink and when to and when NOT to eat them and drink them...

This is a great point. I lost 70 pounds last year by not eating after 6:30 pm, mostly getting rid of sugar and bad carbs along with skipping breakfast. It was actually really easy once I got used to the routine. Got under 200 for the first time since 7th grade lol! (I was always a fatty)

 

[HawkMachine]

That article is over 10 years old

I'm very aware that it's 10 years old. How long has PSU dominated this sport?

Let's face it, PSU does things DIFFERENTLY.

 

[MSU158]

I'm very aware that it's 10 years old. How long has PSU dominated this sport?

Let's face it, PSU does things DIFFERENTLY.

Whatever they do differently, that AIN'T it. You were the one that typed "secret". In every possible definition of the word, it is NOT a secret.

What they do differently is recruit at a better rate than ANY team by far. As a direct byproduct, they have built the deepest room in all of DI by far. They filled that room with the most knowledgeable coaches possible and a slew of world championship level talent from their RTC.

Honestly, it isn't really a secret sauce. But, it IS ridiculously difficult to duplicate.

Now, the ONE thing they do, that is somewhat secretive, is their superior gameplanning for specific opponents. Besides the recruiting, I would say this is the 2nd biggest thing that sets them apart in March!

 

[js8793]

i heard penn state holds team gatherings where they practice moves and such. iowa should look into that too!

 

[vhsalum]

Whatever they do differently, that AIN'T it. You were the one that typed "secret". In every possible definition of the word, it is NOT a secret.

What they do differently is recruit at a better rate than ANY team by far. As a direct byproduct, they have built the deepest room in all of DI by far. They filled that room with the most knowledgeable coaches possible and a slew of world championship level talent from their RTC.

Honestly, it isn't really a secret sauce. But, it IS ridiculously difficult to duplicate.

Now, the ONE thing they do, that is somewhat secretive, is their superior gameplanning for specific opponents. Besides the recruiting, I would say this is the 2nd biggest thing that sets them apart in March!

This. Take a look at Wrestling's "dynasties" - Iowa, Okiest, PSU - all coincided with having a room filled to the absolute brim with the best talent and "RTC" in the land.

Carl and crew and also do a pretty good job of improvement year over year. There is no secret. They're just doing everything better than everyone else right now.

 

[HawkMachine]

There is no secret. They're just doing everything better than everyone else right now.

Exactly. Including weight management.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

They're just doing everything better than everyone else right now.

By FAR doing everything better is the biggest difference.

 

[Aardvark86]

Never wrestled, but I assumed this approach is pretty standard any more

Everyone has a descent plan. Even in HS you can only cut so much between weigh ins (which is sometimes skirted by having fewer weighins)

/will defer to others who know way more about both wrestling and specifically hawk wrestling than I do

Ah, high school weight cuts. In my school back in the day, that entailed going for a run in place in a scalding shower. Or at least it did until a guy known as "Drunken" Youngkin slipped and cracked his skull open.

 

[vhsalum]

Exactly. Including weight management.

Dude. Stop. Weight management aint the secret. And just so we're clear, there are guys on that team that "cut" a lot weight too. All depends on who/how good you are. and - IT'S NOT A SECRET. Because if it were, you wouldn't know about it.

You know what IS a secret? Coach Cal and his "mathematics based nutrition and strength program" - that's an ACTUAL secret. I've done a pretty thorough deep dive and can't really find anything proprietary.

 

[SPOONER]

Exactly. Including weight management.

Are you more interested in PSU flexing or being right than having an actual discussion?

Yes, yes you are.

 

[Aardvark86]

Dude. Stop. Weight management aint the secret. And just so we're clear, there are guys on that team that "cut" a lot weight too. All depends on who/how good you are. and - IT'S NOT A SECRET. Because if it were, you wouldn't know about it.

You know what IS a secret? Coach Cal and his "mathematics based nutrition and strength program" - that's an ACTUAL secret. I've done a pretty thorough deep dive and can't really find anything proprietary.

This. On a related/serious note, some years back the Washington Nationals actually implemented an incredibly detailed nutrition program, and were measuring everything as is typical in today's world of metrics, metrics, metrics. Issues like recovery from injury, perceived fatigue during a long season, etc., along with actual tie in to baseball stats. Naturally, never heard what, if anything, that exercise showed because teams view anything that might give even the smallest incremental edge as highly proprietary. (I seem to recall another funny story about caps' forward Evegeny Kuznetsov discovering 'coconut water' as a hydration beverage when he sneaked into another team's locker room. https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id...ayers-love-affair-coconut-water-sports-drinks )

 

[CoachPageNHS]

Whatever they do differently, that AIN'T it. You were the one that typed "secret". In every possible definition of the word, it is NOT a secret.

What they do differently is recruit at a better rate than ANY team by far. As a direct byproduct, they have built the deepest room in all of DI by far. They filled that room with the most knowledgeable coaches possible and a slew of world championship level talent from their RTC.

Honestly, it isn't really a secret sauce. But, it IS ridiculously difficult to duplicate.

Now, the ONE thing they do, that is somewhat secretive, is their superior gameplanning for specific opponents. Besides the recruiting, I would say this is the 2nd biggest thing that sets them apart in March!

Be careful!! With your admitting PSU has “superior game planning for specific opponents” you are getting awful close to saying Cael can coach!!!

 

[vhsalum]

This. On a related/serious note, some years back the Washington Nationals actually implemented an incredibly detailed nutrition program, and were measuring everything as is typical in today's world of metrics, metrics, metrics. Issues like recovery from injury, perceived fatigue during a long season, etc., along with actual tie in to baseball stats. Naturally, never heard what, if anything, that exercise showed because teams view anything that might give even the smallest incremental edge as highly proprietary. (I seem to recall another funny story about caps' forward Evegeny Kuznetsov discovering 'coconut water' as a hydration beverage when he sneaked into another team's locker room. https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id...ayers-love-affair-coconut-water-sports-drinks )

I love all that stuff. And yeah. The truly "secret" stuff - stays secret.

But the progression of wrestling training is something I love talking about. More teams are doing less running, using bikes and peloton, very little on-the-mat 2 a days in season. Someone posted a monthlong practice schedule for PSU on twitter once, and the amount of "rest" in there was amazing to me.

 

[YoungGun07]

They seem to stay a lot healthier, and peak in March. Combine that with their absolute dominance in recruiting, their stacked RTC, outstanding game planning, and unmatched financial resources, you end up with a dynasty.

Certainly their training plans, including weight management, are a factor, but it seems like a drop in the bucket compared to the above.

 

[moug]

I'm very aware that it's 10 years old. How long has PSU dominated this sport?

Let's face it, PSU does things DIFFERENTLY.

I will add that I think their weight cutting must the reason they get better recruits than MSU.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Penn State Wrestling Club

PSU Sports, college wrestling, stats, schedules, merchandise, clothing, rosters

www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org

I came across this today just trying to gain knowledge on the subject myself. That being weight cutting.

Of course there's no true "secret" but I have a feeling this is one thing that differentiates Iowa and PSU.

How many times have you seen a PSU guy find a way to win late in the third? Those guys hardly ever looked gassed.

Versus how many times an Iowa guy runs out of gas and loses late in the third? Or at least looks extremely gassed.

You read this article and I honestly think it explains some of the reason.

Thoughts?

I’ve cut weight for powerlifting meets, and I follow a somewhat similar method. And yes it makes a huge difference.

 

[bourbon n blues]

This. On a related/serious note, some years back the Washington Nationals actually implemented an incredibly detailed nutrition program, and were measuring everything as is typical in today's world of metrics, metrics, metrics. Issues like recovery from injury, perceived fatigue during a long season, etc., along with actual tie in to baseball stats. Naturally, never heard what, if anything, that exercise showed because teams view anything that might give even the smallest incremental edge as highly proprietary. (I seem to recall another funny story about caps' forward Evegeny Kuznetsov discovering 'coconut water' as a hydration beverage when he sneaked into another team's locker room. https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id...ayers-love-affair-coconut-water-sports-drinks )

The information spreads rather quickly these days.

 

[lookleft goright]

Whatever they do differently, that AIN'T it. You were the one that typed "secret". In every possible definition of the word, it is NOT a secret.

What they do differently is recruit at a better rate than ANY team by far. As a direct byproduct, they have built the deepest room in all of DI by far. They filled that room with the most knowledgeable coaches possible and a slew of world championship level talent from their RTC.

Honestly, it isn't really a secret sauce. But, it IS ridiculously difficult to duplicate.

Now, the ONE thing they do, that is somewhat secretive, is their superior gameplanning for specific opponents. Besides the recruiting, I would say this is the 2nd biggest thing that sets them apart in March!

I am not so sure they recruit better the OSU. They do get better results, so maybe they spot the talent better or have an interview process that determines who they will go after. I would not confuse results as being based solely off of recruiting. Anthony Cassar and Matt Brown come to mind.

 

[redghost1974]

The only secret they have is recruiting deep enough that they can bump up talented guys to the next weight, as Iowa have guys forced to hold a tough cut for 4 years that produce a late season fade from wear and tear.

 

[moug]

i heard penn state holds team gatherings where they practice moves and such. iowa should look into that too!

Dodgeball moves?

 

[moug]

Penn State Wrestling Club

PSU Sports, college wrestling, stats, schedules, merchandise, clothing, rosters

www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org

I came across this today just trying to gain knowledge on the subject myself. That being weight cutting.

Of course there's no true "secret" but I have a feeling this is one thing that differentiates Iowa and PSU.

How many times have you seen a PSU guy find a way to win late in the third? Those guys hardly ever looked gassed.

Versus how many times an Iowa guy runs out of gas and loses late in the third? Or at least looks extremely gassed.

You read this article and I honestly think it explains some of the reason.

Thoughts?

Alton v Grajales was the biggest gas in recent memory. And Grajales himself had a suspect tank. Rasheed before moving up weight. Gilman (at Iowa) said he maintained weight year round. Every Iowa wrestler who has ever commented on the subject (not that many I admit) have said similar. They don’t get far off target in season. I just don’t think this is the reason.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

One thing I took away from Iowa St meet was one of the things Dresser talked about related to David Carr. Obviously the kids a stud with pedigree, but Dresser specifically pointed out his discipline when it comes to weight management and hydration. I would imagine most coaches have athletes they don’t worry about when it comes to cutting weight and others need to be more closely monitored. No idea whether Iowa has a different philosophy than PSU or ISU, but I doubt it.

 

[js8793]

Alton v Grajales was the biggest gas in recent memory. And Grajales himself had a suspect tank. Rasheed before moving up weight. Gilman (at Iowa) said he maintained weight year round. Every Iowa wrestler who has ever commented on the subject (not that many I admit) have said similar. They don’t get far off target in season. I just don’t think this is the reason.

Penn State is actually the opposite of this. Gilman said in an interview one of the biggest changes they made when he moved was the coaches told him he needed to let his weight up (150ish for him) when he wasn't competing. Your body doesn't recover as well when you're holding your weight below where it should be. Then you make the cut the right way when it's time.

 

[moug]

Penn State is actually the opposite of this. Gilman said in an interview one of the biggest changes they made when he moved was the coaches told him he needed to let his weight up (150ish for him) when he wasn't competing. Your body doesn't recover as well when you're holding your weight below where it should be. Then you make the cut the right way when it's time.

I guess that's why he "only" got a silver medal right after the college season. Are all their reserves just cutting weight differently than their starters?

 

[js8793]

I guess that's why he "only" got a silver medal right after the college season. Are all their reserves just cutting weight differently than their starters?

I am just giving you the facts. That's a difference between programs. Overall talent is much more important.

 

[Aardvark86]

I love all that stuff. And yeah. The truly "secret" stuff - stays secret.

But the progression of wrestling training is something I love talking about. More teams are doing less running, using bikes and peloton, very little on-the-mat 2 a days in season. Someone posted a monthlong practice schedule for PSU on twitter once, and the amount of "rest" in there was amazing to me.

I used to race bikes. The one thing I learned early in is the concept of periodic Ed training because it is actually during rest that you get stronger.

 

[Aardvark86]

The information spreads rather quickly these days.

That’s because employees are less loyal and more mercenary.

 

[HawkMachine]

Dude. Stop. Weight management aint the secret.

Did you see where I put the word secret in quotes????

And then of course where I literally said "Of course there's no true "secret""

I know the coaching style is different. I've seen it with my own eyes. I've been in a room with RBY and one of the best coaches in the state. They do things DIFFERENT.

 

[bourbon n blues]

That’s because employees are less loyal and more mercenary.

Nope, it’s the training community . It’s common inwrestling, powerlifters, weight lighters , strongmen, and cross fitters all cut weight .
People like Louie Simmons went to the Russian literature years ago and learned their science .
For example I had a 24 hour weigh in for meets . So I would watch what I ate and get down to 202-205, then the cut starts Monday . Low carbs, three gallons of distilled water per day to flush my water out.
If I was 201 or under 198.5 was easy. All I did was control everything that went into my mouth. I’d weigh myself in the am then go from there. If I was dead on I knew the one scale had me .75 over. It was quite easy when they used my scale lol.
As soon as I made it I hit up a diner and ate carbs, protein, well everything. I had almost 30 hours until I lifted so I ate fairly normal.
What I did can be adapted to any weight cutting strategy.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I used to race bikes. The one thing I learned early in is the concept of periodic Ed training because it is actually during rest that you get stronger.

And yes , recovery methods have been improving for 20-40 years.

 

[Sett1997]

Whatever they do differently, that AIN'T it. You were the one that typed "secret". In every possible definition of the word, it is NOT a secret.

What they do differently is recruit at a better rate than ANY team by far. As a direct byproduct, they have built the deepest room in all of DI by far. They filled that room with the most knowledgeable coaches possible and a slew of world championship level talent from their RTC.

Honestly, it isn't really a secret sauce. But, it IS ridiculously difficult to duplicate.

Now, the ONE thing they do, that is somewhat secretive, is their superior gameplanning for specific opponents. Besides the recruiting, I would say this is the 2nd biggest thing that sets them apart in March!

This!

 

[Muscles1989]

Bigger thing between psu and Iowa currently is how fresh psu is come march, and their individual game planning. Psu hardly drills hard and by mid season it’s all individual workouts and game planning for march. Carl gets them ready every year annoyingly enough.

 

[el dub]

Penn State Wrestling Club

PSU Sports, college wrestling, stats, schedules, merchandise, clothing, rosters

www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org

I came across this today just trying to gain knowledge on the subject myself. That being weight cutting.

Of course there's no true "secret" but I have a feeling this is one thing that differentiates Iowa and PSU.

How many times have you seen a PSU guy find a way to win late in the third? Those guys hardly ever looked gassed.

Versus how many times an Iowa guy runs out of gas and loses late in the third? Or at least looks extremely gassed.

You read this article and I honestly think it explains some of the reason.

Thoughts?

Naw… Fail. Whiff. Nice try but this isn’t a Wendy’s, ma’am…

 

[el dub]

Whatever they do differently, that AIN'T it. You were the one that typed "secret". In every possible definition of the word, it is NOT a secret.

What they do differently is recruit at a better rate than ANY team by far. As a direct byproduct, they have built the deepest room in all of DI by far. They filled that room with the most knowledgeable coaches possible and a slew of world championship level talent from their RTC.

Honestly, it isn't really a secret sauce. But, it IS ridiculously difficult to duplicate.

Now, the ONE thing they do, that is somewhat secretive, is their superior gameplanning for specific opponents. Besides the recruiting, I would say this is the 2nd biggest thing that sets them apart in March!

Spot on. How many times have we seen a Hawk win an initial encounter and then get beat when it counts? For example, ADS beats RBY. RBY changes game plan and wins the next match. But I never saw any change of game plan by ADS after that second match. Ever.

 

[SmartAggressive]

Penn State Wrestling Club

PSU Sports, college wrestling, stats, schedules, merchandise, clothing, rosters

www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org

I came across this today just trying to gain knowledge on the subject myself. That being weight cutting.

Of course there's no true "secret" but I have a feeling this is one thing that differentiates Iowa and PSU.

How many times have you seen a PSU guy find a way to win late in the third? Those guys hardly ever looked gassed.

Versus how many times an Iowa guy runs out of gas and loses late in the third? Or at least looks extremely gassed.

You read this article and I honestly think it explains some of the reason.

Thoughts?