PSU's "secret"

[rossel 33]

What they do differently is recruit at a better rate than ANY team by far. As a direct byproduct, they have built the deepest room in all of DI by far.

Honestly, it isn't really a secret sauce. But, it IS ridiculously difficult to duplicate.

Exactly right MSU.

A quick look at PSU's roster reveals the "secret." P4P rankings out of HS:

125 #7 p4p injured, will start an unranked
133 #12 p4p
141 #4
149 #1
157 #7 RS, will start an unranked
165 #3
174 #9
184 #2
197 NCAA runnerup transfer
285 #1

top 12 p4p recruits at every single weight except at 197, where they get an NCAA runnerup transfer.

Since their 125# is injured, and their blue chip 157# is redshirted, look for much lower ranked recruits at those weights. You don't need a crystal ball to see that Cael's "magic" probably won't work very well on those 2 guys.

Unmatched blue chip recruiting. That is PSU's secret sauce.

 

[Jason.D.Brantley]

Belly rubs. Lots of belly rubs. Cael gives them bellyrubs everyday.

 

[Jason.D.Brantley]

Penn State also looks for the pin. Pins equals more points and more rest.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Besides the recruiting, I would say this is the 2nd biggest thing that sets them apart in March!

By FAR the second biggest thing is much smaller than the first thing, right?

I'm visualizing Russian nesting dolls right now.

 

[MVPFAN]

Recruiting is #1 as previously mentioned. Not just that they recruit high ranked guys they typically recruit high ranked guys that have certain characteristics like above average athleticism, generally average or above length for the weight, well rounded ie good in neutral, top, bottom and defensively. The best club obviously is a reason. Along with the stacked roster it provides even more elite workout partners and instruction from elite wrestlers. They game plan specific matchups very well and their guys typically have the full handbook of technique to use. They have also been ahead of the curve getting guys into the room 1 or even 2 years before needing them to hit the mat. Throw in that PA is the deepest highschool hot bed for talent and within close vicinity of NY, Ohio, Michigan, New Jersey etc and lastly they have all the $$$ they need to feed it all and make it happen.

Sure they have an occasional guy not pan out as hoped. Berge, Verkleran, Joe Lee, the most recent Nevills. But they have the volume of high end guys to slide another guy in. The guys who didn't pan out have more pedestrian skill sets, not as well rounded, not as athletic. We don't get the volume of high end guys and our high end guys are often not as athletic, not as well rounded. We might go after a guy who looks great from neutral but is average or less on the mat and poor defensively.

Look at Kennedy vs Carr and Facundo vs Carr. Kennedy is known as an above average scorer in neutral but his defense is average so got taken down a number of times and the match not close. Facundo is known to be tough to score on, also good length. This kept him in the match and within a TD.

 

[MSU158]

By FAR the second biggest thing is much smaller than the first thing, right?

I'm visualizing Russian nesting dolls right now.

For the first time, in a long time, you are correct. When following after me, even the second biggest thing is much smaller!

 

[T8KUDWN]

Penn State is actually the opposite of this. Gilman said in an interview one of the biggest changes they made when he moved was the coaches told him he needed to let his weight up (150ish for him) when he wasn't competing. Your body doesn't recover as well when you're holding your weight below where it should be. Then you make the cut the right way when it's time.

There is a lot of this that doesn't make sense to me. If you are eating a clean diet, there is no need to be at a caloric deficit out of season and really in season for the most part. Is psu staff telling him to put a bunch of processed crap in his body to put on weight in the off season?? Eating a clean proper diet there is no way Gilman gets up into the 150 range.

 

[el dub]

There is a lot of this that doesn't make sense to me. If you are eating a clean diet, there is no need to be at a caloric deficit out of season and really in season for the most part. Is psu staff telling him to put a bunch of processed crap in his body to put on weight in the off season?? Eating a clean proper diet there is no way Gilman gets up into the 150 range.

“Clean and proper,” has nothing to do with amount of calories taken in. You’re the first person to bring up “processed,” food.

 

[redghost1974]

There is a lot of this that doesn't make sense to me. If you are eating a clean diet, there is no need to be at a caloric deficit out of season and really in season for the most part. Is psu staff telling him to put a bunch of processed crap in his body to put on weight in the off season?? Eating a clean proper diet there is no way Gilman gets up into the 150 range.

It sounds like a philosophy giving a mental break from diet restrictions when not competing. The thinking is a net positive mental relief even though that first cut is going to suck?

 

[T8KUDWN]

“Clean and proper,” has nothing to do with amount of calories taken in. You’re the first person to bring up “processed,” food.

Correct, if you eat an animal based / whole food type diet there is absolutely no reason to limit calories
That's the lifestyle Gilman ( and most high level wrestlers ) live
He's not getting up in the 150s unless he's altering his diet and putting processed foods in is body

 

[el dub]

Correct, if you eat an animal based / whole food type diet there is absolutely no reason to limit calories
That's the lifestyle Gilman ( and most high level wrestlers ) live
He's not getting up in the 150s unless he's altering his diet and putting processed foods in is body

I disagree but you changed the focus. It’s possible to take in more calories than one burns. “Clean,” or “processed.”

 

[js8793]

There is a lot of this that doesn't make sense to me. If you are eating a clean diet, there is no need to be at a caloric deficit out of season and really in season for the most part. Is psu staff telling him to put a bunch of processed crap in his body to put on weight in the off season?? Eating a clean proper diet there is no way Gilman gets up into the 150 range.

i guarantee you gilman can get to 150 without eating processed crap. he is one of the biggest 57kg guys in the world. i'm not sure you understand nutrition. weight gain isn't about clean vs. unclean food. it's calories in, calories out. if he's just adding more healthy carbs, fats, and proteins, he can easily be at a nice surplus. easily.

this is something he's said publicly. it's not speculation.

 

[js8793]

Correct, if you eat an animal based / whole food type diet there is absolutely no reason to limit calories
That's the lifestyle Gilman ( and most high level wrestlers ) live
He's not getting up in the 150s unless he's altering his diet and putting processed foods in is body

this is just hilariously untrue lol

 

[GoHawks1996]

this is just hilariously untrue lol

Definitely an interesting take. Calories are calories, doesn't matter whether they're junk calories or "clean" calories, 4000 kcal is 4000kcal. What you get out of said calories is obviously a totally different story.

 

[js8793]

Definitely an interesting take. Calories are calories, doesn't matter whether they're junk calories or "clean" calories, 4000 kcal is 4000kcal. What you get out of said calories is obviously a totally different story.

it's the kind of take born out of the junk social media diet scams that are so prevalent. "animal based" was a big tell. this is liver king stuff. you won't gain weight if what you're eating is "clean." and in a sense this is usually true because clean food is typically less calorically dense, so you have to eat a lot more of it to be in a surplus. but you still can and if you are in a surplus you will gain weight. doesn't matter if that's from 50 hershey bars or a balanced mix of lean meats, fruits, veggies, and whole grains.

 

[el dub]

it's the kind of take born out of the junk social media diet scams that are so prevalent. "animal based" was a big tell. this is liver king stuff. you won't gain weight if what you're eating is "clean." and in a sense this is usually true because clean food is typically less calorically dense, so you have to eat a lot more of it to be in a surplus. but you still can and if you are in a surplus you will gain weight. doesn't matter if that's from 50 hershey bars or a balanced mix of lean meats, fruits, veggies, and whole grains.

What is so difficult about that to understand?

 

[T8KUDWN]

this is just hilariously untrue lol

I'm going to disagree with you. It's so simple you hilariously don't get it. When you take in the proper nutrition your body will "get full" before you have to be concerned about calories. You have to be concerned about calories when you are eating processed foods. You will take in too many empty calories before you are full. Throw the damn food pyramid out the window. It's a simple, extremely healthy lifestyle to live, eat real food. Many top college programs have their guys on a whole food diet. They will walk around within a few pounds of their competition weight.
I'm 49 years old, I eat between 2,800 - 3,000 calories a day (of real food) and am around 8% body fat. I feel amazing and am an active healthy person. It's a lifestyle, proper nutrition, exercise, sleep, stretching, sauna, cold plunges. I journal everything I do daily and can prove everything I say.

 

[T8KUDWN]

i guarantee you gilman can get to 150 without eating processed crap. he is one of the biggest 57kg guys in the world. i'm not sure you understand nutrition. weight gain isn't about clean vs. unclean food. it's calories in, calories out. if he's just adding more healthy carbs, fats, and proteins, he can easily be at a nice surplus. easily.

this is something he's said publicly. it's not speculation.

Thomas gets up in the low to mid 140s. Yes, I do know this to be true.

 

[js8793]

I'm going to disagree with you. It's so simple you hilariously don't get it. When you take in the proper nutrition your body will "get full" before you have to be concerned about calories. You have to be concerned about calories when you are eating processed foods. You will take in too many empty calories before you are full. Throw the damn food pyramid out the window. It's a simple, extremely healthy lifestyle to live, eat real food. Many top college programs have their guys on a whole food diet. They will walk around within a few pounds of their competition weight.
I'm 49 years old, I eat between 2,800 - 3,000 calories a day (of real food) and am around 8% body fat. I feel amazing and am an active healthy person. It's a lifestyle, proper nutrition, exercise, sleep, stretching, sauna, cold plunges. I journal everything I do daily and can prove everything I say.

smh dude you're eating at maintenance. as i said, it's easier to do so while eating clean. that doesn't mean you can't still eat at surplus. when it comes to gaining/losing weight, calories in/calories out is all that matters. you think you've discovered some secret that "eating real food" is good. eat a cup of almonds with your breakfast everyday and you'll gain a pound a week because you'll be in a 500cal surplus each day while still eating whole foods.

 

[js8793]

Thomas gets up in the low to mid 140s. Yes, I do know this to be true.

yes truly impossible for him to be a few lbs heavier than that without eating processed foods. and of course no athlete would ever ever eat past the point of being full for athletic purposes. simply unheard of.

 

[Redm18]

Have not read all this thread but i'm going to say Penn States "Secret Sauce" is probably a combination of these things and probably others.
1. An amazing Coach like him or not Cael had an amazing career and I think he probably has insights that he provides his kids that some other coaches do not.
2. Great location the best high school wrestling in the country right now is probably in PA, NY, and NJ and Penn State is a driving distance from all of those areas. Lots of kids don't want to get on an airplane to go home.
3. Alumni money Penn State is a big school with a lot of rich alumni and they have been sold on the idea of having the best wresting team.
4. Regional Training Center created mostly by 1, 2, and 3 but goes a long way towards keeping momentum going.
5. Strength and Conditioning Penn State may or not be the best at this but they are good enough that it certainly does not hold them back. I do sometimes if the Iowa way grinds certain guys down to where they would be better a little less trained.
6. 1-3 gets so much great talent in the door that Cael can plan his teams better then anyone else. He is not just picking up the best talent but the best talent that fits together the best so everyone is wrestling near natural weight. This also includes strategic red shirting and gray shirting. Other schools are putting the best talent that they can on the mat all the time Cael has so much talent that sometimes it sits idle waiting for the right moment.

 

[T8KUDWN]

smh dude you're eating at maintenance. as i said, it's easier to do so while eating clean. that doesn't mean you can't still eat at surplus. when it comes to gaining/losing weight, calories in/calories out is all that matters. you think you've discovered some secret that "eating real food" is good. eat a cup of almonds with your breakfast everyday and you'll gain a pound a week because you'll be in a 500cal surplus each day while still eating whole foods.

I don't restrict my calories, just end up in the 2,800 - 3,000 calorie range.
I eat over a cup of almonds around 9:30 - 10:00 every evening. I don't gain weight, actually float a little over 3 pounds nightly.
It's not something I just discovered, been living this lifestyle for quite a while.

 

[js8793]

I don't restrict my calories, just end up in the 2,800 - 3,000 calorie range.
I eat over a cup of almonds around 9:30 - 10:00 every evening. I don't gain weight, actually float a little over 3 pounds nightly.
It's not something I just discovered, been living this lifestyle for quite a while.

sigh eat a second cup of almonds or eat past when you're full for one meal, but still eat whole foods. you'll gain weight. like i already said, you're eating a good diet. it is "harder" to eat in surplus when you eat clean. you have to consume a large volume of food. but athletes do it all the time.

calories in/calories out is all that matters, end of story. what you do is simply an effective way of not eating too much. and good for you for having the discipline. but if you wanted to gain weight without eating processed foods, you could easily do it.

 

[HawkMachine]

WTF are you dorks even arguing about?

I don't care how healthy you eat, if you put in more calories than you burn you will gain weight.

 

[js8793]

WTF are you dorks even arguing about?

I don't care how healthy you eat, if you put in more calories than you burn you will gain weight.

don't tell that to the other guy lol

 

[T8KUDWN]

Sigh, uffda and everything in between.
These are the conversations that I wish could be face to face. Not to get mad at each other. Just easier to better explain what I'm saying.

 

[MSU158]

WTF are you dorks even arguing about?

I don't care how healthy you eat, if you put in more calories than you burn you will gain weight.

But, that isn't really what they are arguing over. It's really about the definition of 2 words. "Overeat" and "full".

Admittedly, T8KUDWN sounds a bit brain washed and I wonder if he is one of the guys on the forced ads between Youtube videos. But, I am sure he isn't dumb enough to think people can't overeat ANY type of food. He just simply believes you truly feel full on his type of eating plan, that you wouldn't overeat. The problem is that still falls back to discipline vs. any scientific fact.

To be clear, many people eat for a bunch of other reasons besides simply being hungry. Anxiety, boredom, convenience, environment, etc. all come into play and takes a very disciplined lifestyle to not overeat. There are plenty of people that could gain a LOT of weight in a hurry if they had unlimited access to the very same foods T8KUDWN eats...

 

[GoHawks1996]

it's the kind of take born out of the junk social media diet scams that are so prevalent. "animal based" was a big tell. this is liver king stuff. you won't gain weight if what you're eating is "clean." and in a sense this is usually true because clean food is typically less calorically dense, so you have to eat a lot more of it to be in a surplus. but you still can and if you are in a surplus you will gain weight. doesn't matter if that's from 50 hershey bars or a balanced mix of lean meats, fruits, veggies, and whole grains.

Exactly, you might have to eat 5 pounds of chicken to get the same calories as a buttery bowl of popcorn (hyperbole), but you can still get there.

That's why a clean bulk is way more of a pain in the ass than a clean cut, unless you've got a chef (or an awesome wife) cooking all your meals.

 

[T8KUDWN]

But, that isn't really what they are arguing over. It's really about the definition of 2 words. "Overeat" and "full".

Admittedly, T8KUDWN sounds a bit brain washed and I wonder if he is one of the guys on the forced ads between Youtube videos. But, I am sure he isn't dumb enough to think people can't overeat ANY type of food. He just simply believes you truly feel full on his type of eating plan, that you wouldn't overeat. The problem is that still falls back to discipline vs. any scientific fact.

To be clear, many people eat for a bunch of other reasons besides simply being hungry. Anxiety, boredom, convenience, environment, etc. all come into play and takes a very disciplined lifestyle to not overeat. There are plenty of people that could gain a LOT of weight in a hurry if they had unlimited access to the very same foods T8KUDWN eats...

Try this, figure out how many calories you eat now. Change your eating habits to a whole food style but keep your caloric level and activity level the same as it presently is. Then talk to me in a month or 2.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Try this, figure out how many calories you eat now. Change your eating habits to a whole food style but keep your caloric level and activity level the same as it presently is. Then talk to me in a month or 2.

Exactly. when I attempt to eat clean I find it quite expensive to get adequate amounts of food.

 

[GoHawks1996]

Exactly. when I attempt to eat clean I find it quite expensive to get adequate amounts of food.

Obviously it's more expensive but that isn't the point. I eat 7 pounds of chicken a week and I'm currently cutting weight.

These people are the best athletes in the world, they're gonna spend whatever amounts they have to in order to eat clean and be at the calorie levels they want.

Gilman gaining weight has nothing to do with what he's eating, it has to do with how much of whatever he's eating, OR a change in his activity levels in the offseason.

 

[GoHawks1996]

You guys would be screwed on the "what weighs more, a pound of rocks or a pound of feathers" brain buster.

 

[T8KUDWN]

Exactly. when I attempt to eat clean I find it quite expensive to get adequate amounts of food.

Find a local farmer and buy a quarter or half a beef from him. Same can be done with a hog. Normally quite a bit less than the grocery store. Raise a garden and support your local FFA by buying fruit from them. Keep an eye on the grocery store ads. I see people spending $15-$20 on food in a convenience store for absolute garbage. I don't have that issue, so I have money to spend on the right things.

 

[MSU158]

Try this, figure out how many calories you eat now. Change your eating habits to a whole food style but keep your caloric level and activity level the same as it presently is. Then talk to me in a month or 2.

I will try that if you try to actually stick with the argument itself. The argument THE ENTIRE TIME has been about "whole" foods vs. "processed" and your ridiculous stance that you can't overeat or gain weight eating whole foods.

Why don't you just concede that part wasn't what you meant? No one here has argued that the amount of caloric intake isn't much more "healthy" with whole foods than many processed foods. Hell, I don't think anyone is arguing you can't eat a bunch more "whole" stuff and actually take in less calories.

What they ARE arguing is that is is entirely possible to overeat ANY type of food and you were the one that initially said it can't happen with "whole" foods. So, again, your argument is about discipline and metabolism vs. some actual scientific fact. Bet me enough money and supply the food and I will easily find people that could eat 20lbs of "whole" foods per day and gain a SUBSTANTIAL amount of weight...

 

[js8793]

I will try that if you try to actually stick with the argument itself. The argument THE ENTIRE TIME has been about "whole" foods vs. "processed" and your ridiculous stance that you can't overeat or gain weight eating whole foods.

Why don't you just concede that part wasn't what you meant? No one here has argued that the amount of caloric intake isn't much more "healthy" with whole foods than many processed foods. Hell, I don't think anyone is arguing you can't eat a bunch more "whole" stuff and actually take in less calories.

What they ARE arguing is that is is entirely possible to overeat ANY type of food and you were the one that initially said it can't happen with "whole" foods. So, again, your argument is about discipline and metabolism vs. some actual scientific fact. Bet me enough money and supply the food and I will easily find people that could eat 20lbs of "whole" foods per day and gain a SUBSTANTIAL amount of weight...

i feel like i'm going insane because i've literally done what he says is impossible. it was hard and i had to keep eating when i was full, but i put on weight and muscle eating nothing but whole foods. lots of rice, potatoes, and oatmeal for carbs, large serving of veggies with every meal, and tons of lean meat and eggs.

in short he's confusing the why for the how.

 

[T8KUDWN]

i feel like i'm going insane because i've literally done what he says is impossible. it was hard and i had to keep eating when i was full, but i put on weight and muscle eating nothing but whole foods. lots of rice, potatoes, and oatmeal for carbs, large serving of veggies with every meal, and tons of lean meat and eggs.

in short he's confusing the why for the how.

Remove the rice, oatmeal along with other things like that and lower your amount of vegetables
Rice and oatmeal aren't even in the conversation to be considered whole foods

 

[T8KUDWN]

I will try that if you try to actually stick with the argument itself. The argument THE ENTIRE TIME has been about "whole" foods vs. "processed" and your ridiculous stance that you can't overeat or gain weight eating whole foods.

Why don't you just concede that part wasn't what you meant? No one here has argued that the amount of caloric intake isn't much more "healthy" with whole foods than many processed foods. Hell, I don't think anyone is arguing you can't eat a bunch more "whole" stuff and actually take in less calories.

What they ARE arguing is that is is entirely possible to overeat ANY type of food and you were the one that initially said it can't happen with "whole" foods. So, again, your argument is about discipline and metabolism vs. some actual scientific fact. Bet me enough money and supply the food and I will easily find people that could eat 20lbs of "whole" foods per day and gain a SUBSTANTIAL amount of weight...

Not looking to argue
Only do that with psu, okie st and clone fans lol
Your body will tell you when its full and then you stop, it's that simple
Good times here
Stay healthy

 

[js8793]

Remove the rice, oatmeal along with other things like that and lower your amount of vegetables
Rice and oatmeal aren't even in the conversation to be considered whole foods

lol yes they are. good lord dude.

 

[js8793]

Not looking to argue
Only do that with psu, okie st and clone fans lol
Your body will tell you when its full and then you stop, it's that simple
Good times here
Stay healthy

at no point in this debate have you understood the point or even addressed reality.

do you think it is possible to eat past being full? if i forced myself to eat 3 lbs of venison and 5 lbs of potatoes a day, would i gain weight?

 

[Gobblin]

Seems to me points are being missed on both sides here. Happy Holidays…. I’ll see myself out of this one.