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I’m a former member of the IBEW, so I fully support private unions. I think where most the disdain for unions comes from is the public sector. As I’ve mentioned before, in my personal experience, govt employees for the most part are fvcking garbage. There is no incentive to excel at their jobs and they are protected by a union that cares for nothing but to preserve its existence.Why are they bad? how do they affect you or your family?
I’m a former member of the IBEW, so I fully support private unions. I think where most the disdain for unions comes from is the public sector. As I’ve mentioned before, in my personal experience, govt employees for the most part are fvcking garbage. There is no incentive to excel at their jobs and they are protected by a union that cares for nothing but to preserve its existence.
Care to share what exactly makes you an expert? And I’m not wrong, you just don’t like my answer.why is public different than private not everybody wants to be the CEO they want to live their lives and provide for their families. you are very misguided on your perception
Care to share what exactly makes you an expert? And I’m not wrong, you just don’t like my answer.
What's wrong with unions? Would you want some third party muscling into your business and forcing you to engage in collective bargaining over all terms and conditions of employment? It would be one thing if it was simply the employees you're dealing with. But a union organization has their own employees whose salaries are paid from employee union dues to "represent" YOUR employees and make your life miserable as the business owner.
Other problems:
Unions can visit the homes of employees; the employer cannot.
Unions can make all sorts of outrageous promises regarding the benefits of union membership, employers can't promise employees anything as an inducement to reject the union.
Union laws allow employees to describe the workplace and its managers using very nasty and abusive language, and the employer has no recourse.
Unionization creates enormous costs that obviously cannot become company profits or increased wages and benefits for employees.
In they end, the employment agreement is supposed to be between the employer and the employee. You should be recognized and rewarded for your individual skills, knowledge, abilities and efforts. Unions don't allow that. Everyone gets paid the same; seniority is the only factor that can be individually rewarded.
Simply put, unions are parasitic organizations that take advantage of employers AND the employees to feather their own beds.
That's about the longest most uninformed post on union membership I have ever read
union can visit homes and employers can't what the fvck is that
your second point on promises Its not a promise it's called negotiations and a contract
point 3. I have know idea what this is
Rebuttal to all points as usual TRad is clueless.
Your generalistic view of unions is so skewed is laughable.What's wrong with unions? Would you want some third party muscling into your business and forcing you to engage in collective bargaining over all terms and conditions of employment? It would be one thing if it was simply the employees you're dealing with. But a union organization has their own employees whose salaries are paid from employee union dues to "represent" YOUR employees and make your life miserable as the business owner.
Other problems:
Unions can visit the homes of employees; the employer cannot.
Unions can make all sorts of outrageous promises regarding the benefits of union membership, employers can't promise employees anything as an inducement to reject the union.
Union laws allow employees to describe the workplace and its managers using very nasty and abusive language, and the employer has no recourse.
Unionization creates enormous costs that obviously cannot become company profits or increased wages and benefits for employees.
In they end, the employment agreement is supposed to be between the employer and the employee. You should be recognized and rewarded for your individual skills, knowledge, abilities and efforts. Unions don't allow that. Everyone gets paid the same; seniority is the only factor that can be individually rewarded.
Simply put, unions are parasitic organizations that take advantage of employers AND the employees to feather their own beds.
https://www.lhsfna.org/index.cfm/lifelines/winter-2003/union-trenches-safer-than-non-union/
Maybe you should be informed a little more being a union member is about going home with your lunch pail and not in a body bag.
Your generalistic view of unions is so skewed is laughable.
So teachers, police firemen and ambulance drivers are all a piece of sh1t. They have no incentive to succeed. Got it. Remember that when you need help. do you send your kids to public school what kind of teachers would they have at minimum wage.
Bullshit. Completely false. No point in entertaining further discussion with you.There is no difference in public or private membership dick head. Never said I was a expert like you.
Trad are corporations ever leeches, guilty of abusing power dynamics?
Trad is a complete dumbfvck on this subject. Don’t waste your time.Trad I’m sure you’ve had bad experiences with unions. Fine. But every post of yours could just as well be describing the ugly side of corporations.
Unions are just like anything else, there’s good and bad. Anything summarily as negative as you’re positioning it seems quite subjective (which is fine) but at least acknowledge your bias.
Corporations often provide products and services that are net detrimental, and are unbelievably exploitive along the way.Corporations provide products and services that people want to buy. If people don't become customers, then they go out of business.
Unions on the other hand only have to get 50 percent plus 1 of their "customers' at a workplace to want to "buy" their services. If you're in the minority at your workplace, you're required to purchase those services whether you want them or not (in states that don't have right-to-work laws).
Even in right-to-work states where you're not required to join the union or pay dues, you're still stuck with the union contract and you can't be individually rewarded for your efforts unless the union contract allows for merit pay (the vast majority of union contracts do not allow for that. Everything is about the "collective" and not the individual.
Trad I’m sure you’ve had bad experiences with unions. Fine. But every post of yours could just as well be describing the ugly side of corporations.
Unions are just like anything else, there’s good and bad. Anything summarily as negative as you’re positioning it seems quite subjective (which is fine) but at least acknowledge your bias.
Hostile takeover? Lofl, Jesus you’re a fvcking idiot. To unionize the employees have to vote. If that’s “hostile” then I believe you might be a fvcking commie.Yes, unions are businesses, just like the employers are. There are in fact unions whose employees have unionized against the union!
The difference is the way they gain customers.... through a hostile takeover of the workplace. Again, if they can just get 50 percent plus 1 of the employees to vote for the union, they've captured ALL the workers and force them ALL to be customers.
Other types of businesses can't do that.
I’m part of a private trade union, the wife works in CPS for the state and is part of a public union. There are major differences between the two.There is no difference in public or private membership dick head. Never said I was a expert like you.
Hostile takeover? Lofl, Jesus you’re a fvcking idiot. To unionize the employees have to vote. If that’s “hostile” then I believe you might be a fvcking commie.
Lol, you’re so fvcking biased it’s hilarious. Just stop dude.Let's take a look at that "democratic" vote process, shall we?
Unions are secretly campaigning all the time. There's a process called a "Card Check" in which employees sign a card stating that they want the union to represent them. If the union can get 30 percent of the bargaining unit to sign a card, then they can petition the NLRB to force an election.
The NLRB does not tell the employer that a petition has been filed until the election is authorized. Then the union shows up outside the workplace with signs and literature announcing the vote. That's when employers learn what's going on. (In our case, the NLRB faxed the notice to us after the union had already started creating a scene on the sidewalk outside the business).
The election happens swiftly, sometimes within as little as 8 days, but it's usually more like 23 days.
The union has been campaigning for months. The employer now has only a matter of weeks to campaign against the union.
When these "quickie" elections rules were put into place during the Obama years, the win rate for unions jumped about 5-8 percentage points.
Now days, more than two-thirds of union elections result in a union win, largely thanks to Obama's ambush election rules.
I said for the most part. And I don’t have kids so I don’t give a shit about teachers or their union. And certainly there are police and firefighters that are pieces of shit. Just because they have a “noble” job doesn’t make them so.So teachers, police firemen and ambulance drivers are all a piece of sh1t. They have no incentive to succeed. Got it. Remember that when you need help. do you send your kids to public school what kind of teachers would they have at minimum wage.
Lol, you’re so fvcking biased it’s hilarious. Just stop dude.
Mr. Birch and I both belong to AFCSME and have for years. We have good salaries, insurance, and time off. The union has been very good to both of us.
Unions are neither "good" nor "bad". The devil is in the detailsWhy are they bad? how do they affect you or your family?
Unions are neither "good" nor "bad". The devil is in the details
Should teachers be allowed collective bargaining? Yes. Should they be allowed to strike? No.
Should workers at a company be allowed to unionize? Yes. Should union membership be mandatory for all employees? No.
How do you know you wouldn't be just as well-off or better in a non-unionized workplace?
On average, employees tend to do better in unionized vs. non-unionized workplaces, but if you look at high-performing employees, they tend to do worse.
So, if you're an average or below-average worker, the union is likely to be good for you, but if you're a high-achiever, you'd probably be better off in a non-union workplace where your individual contributions can be recognized and rewarded.
My first job out of law school was not union. It was a $8000 raise to work four days a week starting my current job. Raises at my first job were rare. They hadn't had one for three years. Current job had annual raises for the first ten years. Better insurance, retirement, time off. Union is better than the non union job by miles.
I have my doubts that the nurses are going to all of a sudden start being rewarded on a case by case basis.
When you join a union it’s not just about you, it’s a brother/sisterhood. It’s about the greater good and having a voice in numbers. Trad, we know you hate unions, but to flat out deny any merit to them shows how biased and clueless you are.Even if you're allowed to opt out of union membership (which is only in states with right-to-work laws), you're still stuck with a collective contract that does not recognize or reward individual merit or achievement.
Sigh, really? Perhaps people are able to see the benefits of forming a union and it’s better than the alternative.You really think that's a fair process?
If it was fair, you'd expect unions to win about half of the time.
They're winning more than two-thirds of the elections.
That alone screams that the process is not fair.