He would indeed pay $2,300 if the tax-inclusive price is $10,000.
http://www.pafairtax.org/resrcs/inclusive-exclusive.pdf
Question(s) for Fair Taxers
- Thread starter What Would Jesus Do?
- Start date
He would indeed pay $2,300 if the tax-inclusive price is $10,000.
http://www.pafairtax.org/resrcs/inclusive-exclusive.pdf
Too bad that's not what he said. But we'll let him chime in if he returns.
"You buy a $10,000 car you pay $2,300,"
No...if you buy a $10,000 car, you pay $10,000 for a $7,700 car. The other $2,300 is tax. That's why you keep selling this as a "sales tax". You want to mislead people into believing the rate is much lower than it actually is. Why not just say, "It's a 29.9% sales tax" if you want people to understand it? The truth is that 23% of your entire purchase will be a tax.
That means that if you buy a $200,000 house, you're paying nearly $60,000 in taxes on the $140,000 home.
Is that accurate or is it not?
Last edited:
Rewrite it. Progressive taxes based on INCOME. Serious revision/rewriting of "non-profits." No more "sheltering" income. Income is income. Period. Money;s received is money taxed. Upfront.
Because we're comparing it to the income tax. When you make $15,000, you will pay 10 percent of that, or $1,500 in income tax. So, we talk about the FairTax the same way. It keeps the discussion apples to apples.
No it doesn't. How can you even think that? It's a load of bullshyte. You want to call it a sales tax when people understand a sales tax as one thing and you're selling something else entirely.
It's not a sales tax. It's the Fairtax. Retailers will remit 23 cents of every dollar they make to the government.
A sales tax is price plus the tax. The Fairtax is price inclusive of the tax.
Then you better tell the f'n FairTax people.
The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code.
Let's read the rest of the FairTax explanation:
"The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on purchases of new goods and services, excluding necessities due to the prebate. The FairTax rate after necessities is 23% compared to combining the 15% income tax bracket with the 7.65% of employee payroll taxes under the current system -- both of which will be eliminated!"
Trad, could you show us...please...where in there they explain that this is an inclusive tax and the actual "sales tax" rate is much higher? Hmm? Read the whole page if you want. Then tell me again that I'm being misleading.
"The FairTax is a national sales tax that treats every person equally and allows American businesses to thrive, while generating the same tax revenue as the current four-million-word-plus tax code. Under the FairTax, every person living in the United States pays a sales tax on purchases of new goods and services, excluding necessities due to the prebate. The FairTax rate after necessities is 23% compared to combining the 15% income tax bracket with the 7.65% of employee payroll taxes under the current system -- both of which will be eliminated!"
Trad, could you show us...please...where in there they explain that this is an inclusive tax and the actual "sales tax" rate is much higher? Hmm? Read the whole page if you want. Then tell me again that I'm being misleading.
Then it should be simple for you to point it out. It sure isn't on their "How It Works" page. Funny, huh?
This is a straw man argument. It doesn't matter if you call it 23% inclusive or 30% exclusive; its still the same amount of money. You can do the same thing with income tax. If you have to pay a 23% rate plus 7% Fica that is an effective 43% tax rate on your earnings. Say you would have made 100k, but instead you only mad 70k and had to give the government 30k.
In either case the actual dollar amount is the same regardless of which calculation method you use. Since the Fair Tax is a replacement for the Income tax, it makes sense to use the same method, and disingenuous for opponents to try and make it sound worse by using the other.
LOL...Seriously? Go to http://www.pafairtax.org/ (that's Pennsylvania - my link was to the first site that pops up when you google Fair Tax) and show me how to get to your pdf. Why hide the explanation - which is still convoluted?
YOUR national proponents call it a sales tax - go after them. On a $7,700 purchase, a 23% sales tax comes to $1,771 according to ANYONE who has ever paid a sales tax. Under your FairTax, they would pay $2,300. You might be using some weird math if you think those are equivalent.
These points about how they call it one thing when it's really another are interesting, but hardly seem terribly important. If it's a 30% tax or a 23% tax it still seems to retain all the same advantages and disadvantages. Sure it makes the proponents look a little more squirrelly, but the plan itself has intrinsic problems that should kill it before dealing with their dishonest marketing.
You're not making a purchase of $7,700. You're making a purchase of $10,000. Retailers will be required to show a tax-inclusive price.
It's not price plus, it's price minus.
You are just being obtuse. You pay $10,000 either way and the vendor submits $2,300. You can call it a 23% inclusive tax on a 10k purchase, or you can call it a 30% exclusive tax on a $7,700 purchase. In either case the dollar amount is exactly the same.
The reason Fairtax.org states the inclusive rate is because ITS AN INCOME TAX REPLACEMENT and that is HOW INCOME TAX IS CALCULATED.
Now stop trying to bring up bullcrap that doesn't matter. If you want to keep the current system and like it, then just man up and admit it. But stop making crap up to try and discredit a legitimate workable replacement.
Say what? You most certainly do NOT pay the same amount. A $7,700 dollar purchase in the real world with a 23% sales tax comes to $9,471. The FairTax purchase of an item that costs exactly the same amount is over $500 more. So don't call it a 23% sales tax. IT ISN'T.
Now you're REALLY being obtuse.
It's 23 percent of $10,000 or ~30 percent of $7,700... but it's never priced at $7,700 in the first place because the FairTax would require the seller to price it at $10,000 if he wanted to keep $7,700 after tax.
Remember, this is a tax on the retailer, not the consumer. He makes a dollar, he pays 23 cents.
LOL...watching you guys trying to justify this is hysterical. This is EXACTLY where you are misleading people. If I buy a $7700 car with a 23% sales tax, I'm not making a $7700 purchase, I'm making a $9471 purchase. Which is over $500 LESS than I would pay under the FairTax.
I always suspected, but now it is beyond confirmed. You are a freaking idiot.
LOL...where does the retailer get the 23 cents? Where does the retailer get the sales tax the RETAILER pays now?
Except you're not buying a $7,700 car. That's where you're getting confused.
Yes. I. Am.
I am paying the retailer to make a profit. The retailer makes NO profit on what gets remitted to the govt. So the base price of what I'm buying is ALL the retailer cares about. Under the FairTax, the retailer will charge $10,000 to get the $7,700 needed to make a profit. PERIOD.
Now you can argue that the lack of other taxes along the pipeline will allow the retailer to sell this formerly $10,000 item for far less but that's not the argument you're making.
Your argument is full of bull feces.
Okay, I'll type this real slowly so you can follow along.
If you buy something with a sales tax, your receipt will look something like this:
Gadget - Qty 1 - Price $1.00
Subtotal - $1.00
Sales Tax - @ 6% - $0.06
Total Due - $1.06
With the Fairtax, the receipt will say:
Gadget - Qty 1 - Price $1.30
Obviously the retailer is going to pass the costs along, and there may be a little sticker shock at first, but you have to remember, you're getting a prebate check, nothing is coming out of your paycheck anymore, and you won't have to write a check on April 15th anymore.
I'LL TAKE THAT TRADE.
But for most people there will be an additional cost for this convenience. Let's not lose sight of that little disadvantage.
I note that you have no substantive response. So tell me where an individual starts their tax calculation for state income tax purposes if the federal tax code does not exist. The fact of state reliance on the federal tax code is so well-known its amazing that we are discussing it. For just one reference highlighting the positives and negative of state delegation in this area, see http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2023413.
A further issue is that states' auditing is lessened because they also piggyback off of IRS audits. States require amended returns to reflect federal adjustments. Without the IRS doing that auditing, states will necessarily need to do more.
What about on day 2? Isn't the car used? I could rent it for a day then buy it and save. There probably wouldn't be another new item sold in America. Sounds like a system primed for abuse.
Well...they could just institute a state FairTax...right? Wonder what the effective rate comes to now?
Think about it this way, once all gadgets are priced at $1.30, what will consumers consider to the be cost of the gadget? They'll say it costs $1.30... this is far preferable to the sales tax of doing things. I've seen more than one kid save up money to buy something and get to the counter but forgot about the tax.
And when you go to buy your car and negotiate a price of $10,000, that's all you'll pay. There won't be another $3,000 in taxes to come up with when you sit down to sign the papers.
They claim their 23% whatever tax would be neutral. That's complete rubbish, of course. They assume 100% compliance to arrive at that figure and we don't have that under the income tax. So 23% becomes 30%...which is an effective sales tax rate approaching 43%. Sell that.
A minimum lease period be established to generate the same tax as if the car was sold new. Remember, the goal is to avoid double taxation. Once that tax is paid, no further transactional taxes would be allowed.
Latest posts
-
-
-
COMMIT: Iowa Lands 2026 Iowa City West, Three-Star OL Colin Whitters
- Latest: clayborn_94
-