Rebecca Lobo says Caitlin can’t ever be the GOAT

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

So to be the Goat you have to attend a blue blood program, Surround yourself with a roster full of 5 star players and win multiple Championships. Seems fair.

Keep in mind this is how former players (and fans) of blue bloods think.

Championships are how they debate with other blue bloods and delineate between each other.

It doesn't fly with us commoners.

Since we are the majority, and in a society that values the voice of the majority above all else (at least on paper), then we will decide GOAT status, not the elite.

In other words, GOAT status is like porn, it's hard to define but you know it when you see it.

 

[Hawk-A-Doodle-Doo]

Rebecca who?...

Rebecca Howe

 

[spiderland]

Thanks Lute?

Many people have recently used the internet to tear down others and attract attention for themselves.
It is an unfortunate sign of the times we live in.
Caitlin Clark’s accomplishments stand on their own and cannot be disputed.
There will never be another Caitlin Clark.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Because she would have to win multiple championships to be in the conversation. Reason she gives is that Candace Parker won 2 at Tennessee, Taurasi won 3 at UConn and Breanna Stewart won 4 at UConn.

There is no way you can convince me that taking Iowa to back to back championship games with 1 title wouldn’t be at least just as impressive as what the others did.

We ain’t UConn, Tenn, Stanford, Norte Dame, Baylor etc

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Honestly, I've never cared about the Greatest of All-Time discussion. It's too subjective, and as noted, rather ridiculous with the way the women's game has changed over the years after being such a have and have-not sport for most of its existence.

To me it will always only be about whether or not she was the best to play while she was playing.............and that's not up for debate.

 

[fezzador]

Because she would have to win multiple championships to be in the conversation. Reason she gives is that Candace Parker won 2 at Tennessee, Taurasi won 3 at UConn and Breanna Stewart won 4 at UConn.

There is no way you can convince me that taking Iowa to back to back championship games with 1 title wouldn’t be at least just as impressive as what the others did.

We ain’t UConn, Tenn, Stanford, Norte Dame, Baylor etc

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MJ is considered the GOAT, but his 6 championships is barely half of Bill Russell’s 11. And while he was damn good, nobody in their right mind would say that Bill was the GOAT. He wasn’t even the most dominant center of his era.

 

[2D_]

All these players that she names off went to blue blood programs, where they're surrounded by highly rated recruits and numerous resources. Iowa doesn't have any of those things. CC would be at minimum a national champion already if she had a supporting cast as talented as these blue bloods do. We've got great players, but they're elevated by CC's play.

 

[herkyhawk00]

I have never seen an individual, despite how incredible that person may be at their sport, win a team championship without very good teammates. Barry Sanders in the minds of many people is the best running back to ever play the game. He certainly didn't have the luxury of running behind the OL like Emmit Smith. To compare the two on championships won is just ridiculously absurd.

 

[BrotherHawkeye]

I have never seen an individual, despite how incredible that person may be at their sport, win a team championship without very good teammates. Barry Sanders in the minds of many people is the best running back to ever play the game. He certainly didn't have the luxury of running behind the OL like Emmit Smith. To compare the two on championships won is just ridiculously absurd.

Great example. Which also made me think of Walter Payton. His greatness (GOAT to many) was not fully defined until he played on the stacked 1985 Bears team? This GOAT thing is purely personal and subjective as has been pointed out.

 

[RVHAWKXX]

Great example. Which also made me think of Walter Payton. His greatness (GOAT to many) was not fully defined until he played on the stacked 1985 Bears team? This GOAT thing is purely personal and subjective as has been pointed out.

I agree with Walter or Barry. Take your pick. The fact that Walter never scored a touchdown in SB 20 and that fat ass fridge did still pisses my dad off to this very day.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

So to be the Goat you have to attend a blue blood program, Surround yourself with a roster full of 5 star players and win multiple Championships. Seems fair.

I notice players that went to blue blood programs often make this same argument.

Strange.

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

I have never seen an individual, despite how incredible that person may be at their sport, win a team championship without very good teammates. Barry Sanders in the minds of many people is the best running back to ever play the game. He certainly didn't have the luxury of running behind the OL like Emmit Smith. To compare the two on championships won is just ridiculously absurd.

Walter Payton almost ended up in that scenario...and even so he won his SB on a great team led by a great coach.

*WP > BS imo

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

Rebecca Howe

😍 When she was able to curb her caloric intake, she was a highly underrated dime piece imo.

 

[StanzByMe]

I think there has to be a balance to it. Would CC be the all time scoring leader if she went to UCONN? I doubt it but she would probably have a couple titles. I don't think multiple titles would be necessary, but all time scoring leader plus 1 title plus another trip to the championship game at a school like Iowa, would go a long way in a lot of people's minds for the GOAT debate.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

With their recruiting and bluest of blue blood histories, any year that UConn doesn't at least make a final four should be considered an absolute disgrace. Any year they don't win a title should be a disappointment.

Here's UConn's top 8 players in terms of minutes this season
Muhl - 3 star
Bueckers - 5 star
Shade - 5 star
Arnold - 5 star
Edwards - 5 star
Brady - 5 star
Samuels - 4 star
Griffin - 5 star
For an average star rating of 4.625. I would assume that during the playing times of any of the great UConn players she listed, the recruiting average is probably similar. Geno has almost gotten the pick of anyone he wanted, including getting Kiah Stokes to leave the state and barely get minutes for UConn when she could have been a heck of a player for us. He's recruited two 3-star players, two 4-star players, and 2 unranked international players in the last four recruiting classes. But he's also recruited 11 5-star players during that time too. I don't care if you have a bunch of injuries, remove the five best players from those combined recruiting classes and you still end up with more amassed talent than any other team in the country.

Let's just say that Iowa's average star rating for current players is not anywhere close to that, but at least seems to be improving moving forward.

Rebecca was a big part of building that for UConn. Having been the senior leader of their first title winning team. But I don't think she realizes how hard it is for a "nobody" school to make back to back Final Fours in the women's game.

Anybody trying to use championships as an indicator of greatness when talking about a UConn player should immediately be shown the door. There are many players that came through that program that are some of the greatest ever, but don't talk about team accomplishments when they had the most stacked teams every season. If CC somehow does the impossible and wins a championship here, then that is a completely different story. She would have had to crossed through the gauntlet of the greatest program and coach ever, the defending national champion, and the previous season's national champion. And done it while carrying a cast of teammates that none of those schools would have wanted.

 

[Arbor1]

CC’s bank account says don’t care what the jealous people say. Just getting started and they hate it. Her name is the headliner no matter what talking point they dream up.

 

[herkyhawk00]

Great example. Which also made me think of Walter Payton. His greatness (GOAT to many) was not fully defined until he played on the stacked 1985 Bears team? This GOAT thing is purely personal and subjective as has been pointed out.

Yes! That "TEAM" was amazing! Being a great player on a great team shouldn't define the greatest. Walter Payton and Barry Sanders are two small examples.

 

[Franisdaman]

Let's kick UConn's arrogant blue blood ass.

 

[Tenacious E]

All these players that she names off went to blue blood programs, where they're surrounded by highly rated recruits and numerous resources. Iowa doesn't have any of those things. CC would be at minimum a national champion already if she had a supporting cast as talented as these blue bloods do. We've got great players, but they're elevated by CC's play.

This is not a profound or original thought, but if Caitlin went to UConn the women’s game wouldn’t be experiencing this right now. It took a coach and program to let Caitlin do current Caitlin things. Now Caitlin things are a transformative sensation and could be the future. Goat all day.

 

[DewHawk]

IMO these detractors are just a bunch of petty jealous has been(s) and in some cases never been.

 

[BigAssTurkeyLeg]

The way I think about it is, no one will remember who won the 2024 national championship 10 years from now except the fans of whichever of the four wins it.

But everyone will remember Caitlin Clark breaking every record, bringing in millions of fans and hitting logo 3s for generations.

 

[1stplacehawk]

GOAT talk & debate happens in every sport.

In women's tennis, Chris Evert was the GOAT. Then Martina. Then Steffi. Now Serena.

In men's tennis, Sampras was the GOAT. Then Federer. Now Djokovic.

In men's basketball, the GOAT is either MJ, Kobe or Lebron.

Everyone has opinions (and bias) so these debates will never end.

Kobe isn’t even top 10. He should be nowhere close to the conversation.

 

[Tenacious E]

Kobe isn’t even top 10. He should be nowhere close to the conversation.

I will get killed for this, but I think a case can be made and Shaq fand Bo Jackson (fb). The most physically overwhelming humans I have ever witnessed. Careers and stats yeah I get it no way. But other than Jordan and Barry sanders (and now Caitlin), they are the athletes I have most enjoyed watching because of their physical dominance.

 

[jonesy5960]

Kobe isn’t even top 10. He should be nowhere close to the conversation.

Wrong.

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

I will get killed for this, but I think a case can be made for Shaq fand Bo Jackson (fb). The most overwhelming physical humans I have ever witnessed.

I actually agree with you.

Shaq = modern day Wilt (not in straight up skill set, but physically dominant to 99% of competition)
Bo = modern day Jim Brown (same as above)

 

[LaQuintaHawkeye]

Kobe isn’t even top 10. He should be nowhere close to the conversation.

I was never a big Kobe fan, but he's in my top 10...outside the top 5.

 

[Tenacious E]

I actually agree with you. Shaq = modern day Wilt (not in straight up skill set, but physically dominant to 99% of competition) Bo = modern day Jim Brown (same as above)
My only quibble would be the 99%. There has never been an athlete 7’1 and 330 pounds that could do this:

 

[iahawkeyes17]

One thing to question a pro who has 10+ years but ludicrous to say about college player who has 4 years and goes agains 100+ other schools. It’s petty jealously by players and media who say this. Funny they don’t bring this up when talking about Ionescu from Oregon and her college career and how many others great ones who didn’t win it all.

Clark has cemented her legacy win or lose Sunday as a transcendent player on the game. History will speak for itself and her name not all the bitter jealous other players will be talked about for years to come and impact she had. She reminds me of the impact fab 5 had on the game in the 90s. Must watch tv and brought so many more eyeballs with baggy shorts, black socks and swagger. I guarantee avg person doesnt remember a thing about minus the timeout or name one player off that UNC team who beat them as sophs yet 30 yrs later they are still remembered for their impact on the game.

 

[Tenacious E]

One thing to question a pro who has 10+ years but ludicrous to say about college player who has 4 years and goes agains 100+ other schools. It’s petty jealously by players and media who say this. Funny they don’t bring his up when talking about Ionescu from Oregon and her college career and how many others who didn’t win oh.

Clark has cemented her legacy win or lose Sunday as a transcendent player on the game. History will speak for itself and her name not all the bitter jealous other players will be talked about for years to come and impact she had. She reminds me of the impact fab 5 had on the game in the 90s. Must watch tv and brought so many more eyeballs with baggy shorts, black socks and swagger. I guarantee avg person doesnt remember a thing about minus the timeout or name one player off that UNC team who beat them as sophs.

If we win tomorrow, it will be like Maximus marshaling the scraps in the colosseum to approximate the barbarian carthaginians defeating the Roman Empire.

 

[GlenHawk]

Let's kick UConn's arrogant blue blood ass.

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How many championships would Breanna have if she stayed home and played for Syracuse? The answer is zero lol.

 

[1stplacehawk]

I was never a big Kobe fan, but he's in my top 10...outside the top 5.

Despite his all NBA defensive teams, advanced analytics show he was an average defender in his prime (Jordan was >90 percentile for reference). He was never particularly efficient offensively. He won 5 titles while being the best player on two of those teams. He had a really great career, but it is hard to justify placing him any higher than 8-10. I’d put him behind Shaq, Lebron, and Steph for his contemporaries. He’s in the Duncan, Olajuwon tier in the 11-20 range, IMO. Either way, he has no place in the top player of all time conversation.

 

[Huey Grey]

CC took women's basketball, which was a niche sport, and turned it into arguably the most popular sport out there. Her games are vastly more more popular than the men's games and even out draw the NBA. Every crowd is a sellout.

She shattered virtually every scoring record there is, is top 3-4 in assists, and took a middle of the pack program to back to back championship games. Her impact on the game is similar to what Jordan did with the Bulls in the 90s celebrity wise.

To claim she isn't the greatest of all time is insane. What Lobos is doing is not just disrespectful to CC, it's disrespectful to basketball.

 

[Slim45]

With their recruiting and bluest of blue blood histories, any year that UConn doesn't at least make a final four should be considered an absolute disgrace. Any year they don't win a title should be a disappointment.

Here's UConn's top 8 players in terms of minutes this season
Muhl - 3 star
Bueckers - 5 star
Shade - 5 star
Arnold - 5 star
Edwards - 5 star
Brady - 5 star
Samuels - 4 star
Griffin - 5 star
For an average star rating of 4.625. I would assume that during the playing times of any of the great UConn players she listed, the recruiting average is probably similar. Geno has almost gotten the pick of anyone he wanted, including getting Kiah Stokes to leave the state and barely get minutes for UConn when she could have been a heck of a player for us. He's recruited two 3-star players, two 4-star players, and 2 unranked international players in the last four recruiting classes. But he's also recruited 11 5-star players during that time too. I don't care if you have a bunch of injuries, remove the five best players from those combined recruiting classes and you still end up with more amassed talent than any other team in the country.

Let's just say that Iowa's average star rating for current players is not anywhere close to that, but at least seems to be improving moving forward.

Rebecca was a big part of building that for UConn. Having been the senior leader of their first title winning team. But I don't think she realizes how hard it is for a "nobody" school to make back to back Final Fours in the women's game.

Anybody trying to use championships as an indicator of greatness when talking about a UConn player should immediately be shown the door. There are many players that came through that program that are some of the greatest ever, but don't talk about team accomplishments when they had the most stacked teams every season. If CC somehow does the impossible and wins a championship here, then that is a completely different story. She would have had to crossed through the gauntlet of the greatest program and coach ever, the defending national champion, and the previous season's national champion. And done it while carrying a cast of teammates that none of those schools would have wanted.

In this same vein, they’re a big part of the reason womens college bball didn’t have many eyes on it. Everyone pretty much knew exactly who was winning it all those years.
Caitlin doing what she’s done, at a school like Iowa with very little historical success, is what has put so many eyeballs on the womens game. And is EXACTLY why she is being called the GOAT. She took a far more difficult path than the others that are being propped up and considered in the goat conversation and has exceeded what anyone thought was possible at a program like Iowa.

 

[hawkcub]

Blue Bloods don't like when people crash their party. Notice when someone in the media discount CC they always have a blue blood background.

They are OK with an Iowa making sweet 16's even elite 8's ever so often. But final 4's and the championship its hold on a second. They're jealous she took the game (at least college) further than they could even dream of.

 

[Libertylover]

Because she would have to win multiple championships to be in the conversation. Reason she gives is that Candace Parker won 2 at Tennessee, Taurasi won 3 at UConn and Breanna Stewart won 4 at UConn.

There is no way you can convince me that taking Iowa to back to back championship games with 1 title wouldn’t be at least just as impressive as what the others did.

We ain’t UConn, Tenn, Stanford, Norte Dame, Baylor etc

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If anything it makes her more impressive, taking Iowa to new heights surrounded by role players. Someone on tv pointed it out that she hasn’t played with any other McDonald’s AA’s or USA team members. Similar to what Jordan did with the bull.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Honestly, I've never cared about the Greatest of All-Time discussion. It's too subjective, and as noted, rather ridiculous with the way the women's game has changed over the years after being such a have and have-not sport for most of its existence.

To me it will always only be about whether or not she was the best to play while she was playing.............and that's not up for debate.

Bump

 

[uiowa08]

Really flawed argument. You can say that for the NBA when players have 15+ year careers with varying rosters. But to say that for a college player who really only has at most 4 legit changes is absurd. Iowa is a school with no women's basketball history to speak of and who doesn't get the best recruits by a long shot. Those other women had talent all around them. To expect CC to carry an average roster to multiple championships is just an unrealistic goal post. She's gotten to two national championship games with a roster that doesn't have a single player outside of Clark that would start for UConn or South Carolina.

How long did it take Jordan to win his first NBA ring? He got bounced from the playoffs many times before then. Should we only judge him based on his first 4-5 years in the NBA?

 

[Grumpy Old Hawk]

Because she would have to win multiple championships to be in the conversation. Reason she gives is that Candace Parker won 2 at Tennessee, Taurasi won 3 at UConn and Breanna Stewart won 4 at UConn.

There is no way you can convince me that taking Iowa to back to back championship games with 1 title wouldn’t be at least just as impressive as what the others did.

We ain’t UConn, Tenn, Stanford, Norte Dame, Baylor etc

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Staying home and not going to one of the elite all star programs makes her the goat. She doesnt have elite players around her.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

First it was she had to get back to Final Four level. Then it was she had to win a Natty. Now it’s multiple natty’s? Keep moving those goalposts to avoid the obvious, you blathering fools.

 

[joelbc1]

By that logic, Robert Horry is one of the greatest NBA players ever

And Bill Russell is….
But there’s a legit argument about Russell…

 

[Tenacious E]

CC took women's basketball, which was a niche sport, and turned it into arguably the most popular sport out there. Her games are vastly more more popular than the men's games and even out draw the NBA. Every crowd is a sellout.

She shattered virtually every scoring record there is, is top 3-4 in assists, and took a middle of the pack program to back to back championship games. Her impact on the game is similar to what Jordan did with the Bulls in the 90s celebrity wise.

To claim she isn't the greatest of all time is insane. What Lobos is doing is not just disrespectful to CC, it's disrespectful to basketball.