Religion of peace--seriously?
- Thread starter GOHOX69
- Start date
My guess is you are a Muslim, or Muslim apologist. Fact is, the Koran outright advocates deception, violence and servitude to advance the religion of Islam. Period, and there is no equivocating it with the New Testament. In terms of the OT, both religions draw from it, but Christians by and large ignore many of the laws that Islam takes literally. Like stoning homosexuals, stoning adulterers and killing apostates.
Huh, so you're saying that not all Christians interpret OT crap literally, but all Muslims interpret all Koran literally?
It's amazing how scary you can make it when you take the worst of one religion and the best of another! It's shocking that he's favoring his.
What's really scary is my brother dated a Muslim guy. Maybe there are levels of stoning and some of them are fun?
And that's the point I made earlier -- both religions advance to the extent that they ignore the writings of their holy scriptures. Right now most Christians are a few hundred years ahead of a percentage of Muslims. But this doesn't mean that it's impossible for Islam to advance, as most Muslims have already found ways to re-interpret the Koran in ways compatible with a peaceful and diverse world. For twenty years our next door neighbors and good friends were a family of Muslims. And they were pretty strict in the adherence to the rules of modesty, etc. The wife even talked about how her family (more secular Muslims) cried when she told them she was marrying a more fundamentalist husband and that she was adopting that lifestyle -- so they were pretty devout. But they were perfectly happy to live a typical American life, even exchange gifts with us at Christmas. Their son and daughter, all these years later, are still very close to our kids. They played sports, participated in clubs, and are now attending UCLA. Just as most Christians today have managed to cast-off the horrific teachings of the Bible (and please be honest and acknowledge that Christianity for the majority of its existence has been VERY Old Testament based) Muslims are able to remain Muslim and be peaceful members of the world.
You should also consider Jews, who believe in the Old Testament but not the New. While you pooh-pooh the relationship between the OT and Christianity, you can't do that with Judaism. Yet the vast majority of Jews have found a way to make their religions doctrine compatible with a modern and peaceful world of Gentiles.
There's nothing uniquely abhorrent about the Koran.
I love this. Religion is only acceptable when you ignore the rules.
Or in the case of my brother and his gay Muslim lover, interpret the rules in fun ways (with safe words, I presume).
I am saying that Muslims interpret the Old Testament much more literally than Christians do. They also interpret the Koran much more literally, which they hold as the literal representation, the embodiment of God on earth. Much the way that most Christians view Christ himself. The Bible, on the other hand, is only a divinely inspired book that chronicled his teachings and life and was written by man. So yeah, they take the Koran much more literally.
So what you're saying is you have a somewhat objective, but mostly subjective opinion. And, like most opinions, it suits you.
And that's the point I made earlier -- both religions advance to the extent that they ignore the writings of their holy scriptures. Your view is simplistic. Right now most Christians are a few hundred years ahead of a percentage of Muslims. Nope, Islam did not have and never will have a St. Thomas Aquinas. But this doesn't mean that it's impossible for Islam to advance, as most Muslims have already found ways to re-interpret the Koran in ways compatible with a peaceful and diverse world. Nope, Islam is Islam, there are no modifiers (See St Thomas Aquinas) For twenty years our next door neighbors and good friends were a family of Muslims. And they were pretty strict in the adherence to the rules of modesty, etc. The wife even talked about how her family (more secular Muslims) cried when she told them she was marrying a more fundamentalist husband and that she was adopting that lifestyle -- so they were pretty devout. But they were perfectly happy to live a typical American life, even exchange gifts with us at Christmas. (They will do this, but hey are a very small minority in this country, there are stages at which other tenets of their religion bears its true color. Sharia Law bears its head, they shame other Muslims for not being Muslim enough and they turn to Fundamentalism) It Happens in Country after country. Islam is a religion of conquest. Lebanon, for instance, was 80% Christian in 1920. Today, Christians have fled and are a distinct minority. Their son and daughter, all these years later, are still very close to our kids. They played sports, participated in clubs, and are now attending UCLA. Just as most Christians today have managed to cast-off the horrific teachings of the Bible (and please be honest and acknowledge that Christianity for the majority of its existence has been VERY Old Testament based) Muslims are able to remain Muslim and be peaceful members of the world.
You should also consider Jews, who believe in the Old Testament but not the New. While you pooh-pooh the relationship between the OT and Christianity, you can't do that with Judaism. Yet the vast majority of Jews have found a way to make their religions doctrine compatible with a modern and peaceful world of Gentiles.
There's nothing uniquely abhorrent about the Koran. Have you read it? I have. When you do, read it as Muslims do, with the teaching of Abrogation in mind. What is first is last, what is last is first. So, if something is written towards the end the book it takes precedence over something, over anything that may precede it, even if it is contradictory. This is where the nastiness is hidden. Islam is in no way compatible with Western Ideals.
You should also consider Jews, who believe in the Old Testament but not the New. While you pooh-pooh the relationship between the OT and Christianity, you can't do that with Judaism. Yet the vast majority of Jews have found a way to make their religions doctrine compatible with a modern and peaceful world of Gentiles.
There's nothing uniquely abhorrent about the Koran. Have you read it? I have. When you do, read it as Muslims do, with the teaching of Abrogation in mind. What is first is last, what is last is first. So, if something is written towards the end the book it takes precedence over something, over anything that may precede it, even if it is contradictory. This is where the nastiness is hidden. Islam is in no way compatible with Western Ideals.
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What are you talking about? No one is ignoring rules. Again, Christians have been able to take that Bible and have applied the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas and Reason.
Yeah, and if he were in a Muslim country, he (Gay brother lover) would have a large chance of being killed.
Oh I don't deny you've done some reading and composed some thoughts and ideas. Do you deny your subjectivity?
Ah, so you recognize that, like pretty much all religions, they are practiced differently in different places by different people at different times. Cool.
But yeah, be afraid. The Muslims are trying to settle-colonize. Maybe copying the Christians? It's not like Christians have ever stopped doing this. One could argue that we, as a pseudo-Christian nation, are still doing this like a motherfücker to this day. We behave like a white-Christian-nationalist nation all the damn time, asserting our hegemony over other peoples, all the damn time. It's subtle, somewhat shielded/clouded by our sometimes-convenient diversity, our sometimes-secular, sometimes-humanist ideals, but it's still there. And part of what shields this is the diversion of attention to Islam as a threat. For white-Christian-nationalism to be defended—even in the abstract—there must be threats.
It's the same shit over and over. If we want something, or access to something, we make those who are in the way into bad people. They get branded bad, or a threat, or in the wrong, so we can take. Our entire history this is the recurring theme.
I'll give folks like Bannon and Coulter credit. At least they don't parse words.
@Rudolph is just kicking ass. Even when he's being flippant, he kicks ass. I feel a bit
You're a fvcking sage. You even know how to be condescending in such a way that it's not as much of a hindrance. I see plenty of people who are the polarity (or voice themselves as the polarity) to the more conservative-thinking posters, and they wind up hurling the exact same insults, and it impedes progress. They allow themselves to regress back to "I know you are, but what am I." I gotta tip my hat and pat your back. You've shown me better ways. You deserve to be commended.
You're making absolute statements of fact that are already proven to be false. You can't make them true simply by stating them with unshakable confidence. Most Muslims -- at least in this country -- have reconciled their religion with living peaceably in a diverse world. So your assertion is demonstrably false.
We once were very heavily ensconced in a group of Muslims when we lived in the Chicago area. I actually was once very attracted to the religion (25 years ago) and considered converting, however, I then learned the details.
You were attracted to it, and considered converting, and then you learned the details? What exactly Drew you to consider conversion?
You are making an observation based on a point in time. I, on the other hand, am relying on written History. But if it makes you feel good to accept a trojan horse that will blow open up amongst your children, feel free. Picture your daughter or granddaughter in a Burka, it could happen.
Seemed like an odd process. "This is a really great religion!" A while passes: "I'm thinking about converting to Islam." ... then "the details"... "Oh, no! That's totally whacked-out!"
What I love is the seemingly ever-present direct connection that always exists between faith and fear. The "religious" are always so damn afraid of something.
Well, no, Mormonism holds it attractiveness also, then you find out they banned blacks from being members until fairly recently. As JC said, beware false prophets, you will know them by what they do.
Which is odd because they are supposed to have a “get out of death free” card to play.
