Retort to Ferentz Salary Shamers

[ghostOfHomer777]

A few prefacing remarks:

• I come from a family of Marxists
• Both of my parents are die-hard Iowa basketball fans - my father is also a fair-weather fan of the football program.
• Both of my parents continuously lament about Ferentz being overpaid

Now the quick and dirty ....

1. Value added: Iowa's program while putting out mediocre seasons, still puts out the occasional beauty (like '02, '09, and '15 seasons), all things considered, Iowa seems to have a very fiscally sound athletic department
2. Ferentz gives back: Not unlike the Paterno family, the Ferentz's generously give back to the community (substantial donations to the hospital and area
3. Doing things the "right way:" Ferentz typically fields very competitive teams, all the while training young men to be positive contributors to society. We're not just talking about him producing dogmatic ideologues either - we're talking about young men who are often in challenging majors and who are encouraged academically. Plenty of pre-meds and engineers pepper the roster ... intellectuals like Jordan Lomax and James Morris ... vibrant entrepreneurs like Anthony Gair and Josey Jewell ... pre-law majors, etc .... guys who will be successful, even if they don't make it in the NFL.
4. An ageing Ferentz has been less aggressive about salary grabbing ... more concerned about sheltering his quality assistants. Folks called for the head of Coach Morgan at one point in time ... crazy thing to ponder. It's impressive how long Ferentz managed to retain quality assistants like Ken O'Keefe and Phil Parker (we even are benefitting from O'Keefe 2.0). Also, it goes without saying concerning his loyalty to Doyle and to Norm.
5. Other more "storied" programs are paying more for less. Look at Harbaugh at Michigan ... he makes well more than Ferentz ... but even with much higher level recruits, they still managed to go 8-4. Scott Frost will step onto the sidelines at Nebraska, earning more than Ferentz, despite having yet to have a P5 coaching W under his belt.
6. Iowa's record of placing under-recruited players into the NFL knows few, if any, equals. This points to Ferentz being an exceedingly good "football educator" ... being able to create a superb learning environment for his players. Few are better in the game. I know that I'm in the minority - but this facet of his resume is one of the factors that I respect the most about Ferentz.
7. This is a subjective point ... but assuming that Iowa can maintain good continuity on both the coaching staff and the roster ... I truly believe that the program is on an upswing. Despite all the adversity faced this season (injuries, youth/inexperience) and all the "transitional" aspects of the program (new OC, new offensive system, new position coaches, etc) ... the output of the program still met or exceeded most reasonable expectations. Assuming reasonable progress/development made by most coaches and players ... myself and others seem optimistic about Iowa being capable of going "on a run" as a program.

 

[oldxbbc]

Totally agree

 

[Johnsoda123]

A few prefacing remarks:

• I come from a family of Marxists
• Both of my parents are die-hard Iowa basketball fans - my father is also a fair-weather fan of the football program.
• Both of my parents continuously lament about Ferentz being overpaid

Now the quick and dirty ....

1. Value added: Iowa's program while putting out mediocre seasons, still puts out the occasional beauty (like '02, '09, and '15 seasons), all things considered, Iowa seems to have a very fiscally sound athletic department
2. Ferentz gives back: Not unlike the Paterno family, the Ferentz's generously give back to the community (substantial donations to the hospital and area
3. Doing things the "right way:" Ferentz typically fields very competitive teams, all the while training young men to be positive contributors to society. We're not just talking about him producing dogmatic ideologues either - we're talking about young men who are often in challenging majors and who are encouraged academically. Plenty of pre-meds and engineers pepper the roster ... intellectuals like Jordan Lomax and James Morris ... vibrant entrepreneurs like Anthony Gair and Josey Jewell ... pre-law majors, etc .... guys who will be successful, even if they don't make it in the NFL.
4. An ageing Ferentz has been less aggressive about salary grabbing ... more concerned about sheltering his quality assistants. Folks called for the head of Coach Morgan at one point in time ... crazy thing to ponder. It's impressive how long Ferentz managed to retain quality assistants like Ken O'Keefe and Phil Parker (we even are benefitting from O'Keefe 2.0). Also, it goes without saying concerning his loyalty to Doyle and to Norm.
5. Other more "storied" programs are paying more for less. Look at Harbaugh at Michigan ... he makes well more than Ferentz ... but even with much higher level recruits, they still managed to go 8-4. Scott Frost will step onto the sidelines at Nebraska, earning more than Ferentz, despite having yet to have a P5 coaching W under his belt.
6. Iowa's record of placing under-recruited players into the NFL knows few, if any, equals. This points to Ferentz being an exceedingly good "football educator" ... being able to create a superb learning environment for his players. Few are better in the game. I know that I'm in the minority - but this facet of his resume is one of the factors that I respect the most about Ferentz.
7. This is a subjective point ... but assuming that Iowa can maintain good continuity on both the coaching staff and the roster ... I truly believe that the program is on an upswing. Despite all the adversity faced this season (injuries, youth/inexperience) and all the "transitional" aspects of the program (new OC, new offensive system, new position coaches, etc) ... the output of the program still met or exceeded most reasonable expectations. Assuming reasonable progress/development made by most coaches and players ... myself and others seem optimistic about Iowa being capable of going "on a run" as a program.

How many Marxist does it take to change a light bulb? Two. One to screw in the light bulb and one to lament Freidman's Laissez-faire economic policies.

 

[icwesthawk]

You lost me at Marxist...

 

[KFsdisciple]

Great post!

I think you touched on this, but he's also been a great ambassador for the university, he's extremely well respected...his teams play HARD... His early teams REALLY played hard... you could tell once they gained experience and time in the program 2002-2004 was possible...

He's set a floor.. and that's important that floor isn't because of his salary, but because of the success even if mostly average...he's made the average season a bowl-eligible team.. His salary is because the high's are pretty darn high and the lows are still better than most of the big10...

How many seasons has Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, Michigan, Nebraska not played in bowl games or played on NYD games while kirk has been at the helm?

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

There is nothing on that list that could and would not also be done by a new coach. He is what he is but being a good brand ambassador isn't something only KF could do.

 

[KFsdisciple]

There is nothing on that list that could and would not also be done by a new coach. He is what he is but being a good brand ambassador isn't something only KF could do.

How many seasons has Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, Michigan, Nebraska not played in bowl games or played on NYD games while kirk has been at the helm?

Kirk has set or at least continued a bar at iowa only Wisconsin, MSU, Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State can say they have had similar or better levels of success in the last 20 years.

 

[KFsdisciple]

in this evolving landscape of college football, bluebloods have fallen (michigan, Tennessee, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Bama, USC, Texas, Washington, etc) to points lower and longer than Iowa has in the last 20 years... The consistency even if its average most years will follow this Iowa program... The next coach will be expected to maintain the program at a bowl eligible level on a consistent basis.

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

You listed Michigan both places... If you take nebraska and michigan out of your first paragraph you are not acknowledging the success HF had as none of those teams were relevant in the 80s and with the exception of minny in the 60s they have never been to the level Hf got us too. Football in 2017 is a much different sport than it was even in the 70-80s with media coverage and money involved. That bar is "middle of the pack" as you showed with your numbers.

Do you think so little of Gary Barta that if Kirk had to walk away tmrw, (I'm NEVER wishing this but let's say he had a massive heart attack) that Gary couldn't get someone of equal or greater ability?

If you think he could, Kirk isn't as valuable as you perceive him to be. If you think he couldn't, we need a new ad.

 

[ih8iast8]

Ferentz has never had a player arrested during a trip that involved shoplifting during an away game. The "Steve Alford Rule" should become the new litmus test that all coaches are held to.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

How many Marxist does it take to change a light bulb? Two. One to screw in the light bulb and one to lament Freidman's Laissez-faire economic policies.

Nah - usually just one. They can typically lament the policies while changing the light bulb. The trade-off is that you're waiting about 10 times longer than if you had a single "quiet" light-bulb changer.

Also, for folks who aren't quantitatively challenged ... the underlying quantitative nuts and bolts of Das Capital are mathematically quite interesting. Unfortunately, too many people are too dogmatic about their economic philosophy to give it a thorough read. On the flip side, I honestly don't think that ANY economic approach is satisfactory on its own ... so I like to "dabble" in quantitative economic modeling strategies. Consequently, I don't share the same biases of the rest of my family.

Lastly, the original admission was to simply point out that I'm quite close to folks who make the standard "salary" argument about Ferentz ... and yet I still manage to see things differently. Furthermore, while I understand that Kirk Ferentz is privately a rather conservative individual (and I am quite the opposite) - I respect Kirk a lot nonetheless.

 

[froggy67]

ghost - Thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts. Kind of interesting to peruse the work and thoughts of someone who actually thinks about the world around him. Keep on posting, you have at least one avid reader.

 

[KFsdisciple]

Also, his salary is what his boss says he's worth.. The football team and the athletic department pull a profit each year, as long as that continues to be the case, he's not overpaid.

As long as the company I work for continues to profit off the job I do, I can claim my salary is appropriate... Seems simple enough to me...If my wage were to put the company in the red we'd have to talk because either i'm simply making too much money or i'm not performing well enough to pull a profit.. that's not happening here.

 

[cmhawks99]

Well said Homer, as always !

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

There is nothing on that list that could and would not also be done by a new coach. He is what he is but being a good brand ambassador isn't something only KF could do.

What you're not accounting for is the risk analysis. While another coach COULD do the same thing ...

• They could also do so without representing the community in a positive way.
• They could achieve the same W-L output ... but do so in a socially much less impressive fashion.
• The new coach could drive the program back into the ground. The caveat of this possibility is that the resulting impact on recruiting could be significant - thereby making it more challenging to dig out of the proverbial hole.
• The new coach COULD exceed what Ferentz has done. The problem with this scenario is that history tends to suggest that the primary coaching peers of Ferentz (at Iowa) are Fry and Evashevski. Without question, Ferentz's success correlates to Fry's success ... this is reflective of Ferentz being a member of Fry's coaching tree. If Iowa were to depart from this coaching tree ... then we're less likely to benefit from such positive correlations. A similar argument points to Tom Osborn's success benefitting from Bob Devaney's success (which is undeniably true). A big part of Nebraska's enthusiasm about Scott Frost is that he marks a return to their beloved coaching tree.

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

I understand a poor hire could be made. I would contest that if we are affraid of that enough that it is a "handcuff" someone else should be doing the hiring. Als, not that I think this is what you ment, but if they performed to the level of when Evy was a coach there wouldnt be any beer left on sunday nights. Foood for thought.

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

I would like to state I have no problem with the money he makes. I do take notice when every time any form of "what's next" conversation takes place that some people automatically assume we will fall off the map.

 

[KFsdisciple]

if there's one thing I've learned from the coaching changes at the surrounding schools in the big10 and throughout the country its that a bad fit or a bad hire can bring good programs to its knees and keep below average programs down. Even teams like Nebraska and Michigan have struggled to get it right.

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

And good hires?

 

[Rustys Dad]

Great post!

I think you touched on this, but he's also been a great ambassador for the university, he's extremely well respected...his teams play HARD... His early teams REALLY played hard... you could tell once they gained experience and time in the program 2002-2004 was possible...

He's set a floor.. and that's important that floor isn't because of his salary, but because of the success even if mostly average...he's made the average season a bowl-eligible team.. His salary is because the high's are pretty darn high and the lows are still better than most of the big10...

How many seasons has Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, Michigan, Nebraska not played in bowl games or played on NYD games while kirk has been at the helm?

Edit:

Signed,
Brian F in Iowa City

Just teasin'

 

[cmhawks99]

I would like to state I have no problem with the money he makes. I do take notice when every time any form of "what's next" conversation takes place that some people automatically assume we will fall off the map.

I get, it I do, with that said I think historically we are finding that happens more often than it doesn't

 

[KFsdisciple]

Iowa played the 4th toughest schedule in the country this year, and before the season began most reasonable fans and even Vegas had Iowa winning 6-7 games. We didn't know Iowa State, North Texas, Purdue, Michigan State etc would be as good as they are, but with a new starting QB replacing a NFL caliber guy, new offensive coordinator, the floor was still 6 wins with a few thinking maybe as high as 8 was possible. What were the expectations at Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue etc? That to me is what KF's salary represents, that in a year where the schedule was tough, a rebuilding year of sorts on the offense... and yet the fan base and the gamblers still saw enough there for 6+ wins.

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

I think You are either a person who sees the glass half full or half empty. There are several examples of schools.making hires that improved the program. (FWIW the dude at Purdue is going to do it in front of us over then next couple years.)

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

Iowa played the 4th toughest schedule in the country this year, and before the season began most reasonable fans and even Vegas had Iowa winning 6-7 games. We didn't know Iowa State, North Texas, Purdue, Michigan State etc would be as good as they are, but with a new starting QB replacing a NFL caliber guy, new offensive coordinator, the floor was still 6 wins with a few thinking maybe as high as 8 was possible. What were the expectations at Illinois, Minnesota, Purdue etc? That to me is what KF's salary represents, that in a year where the schedule was tough, a rebuilding year of sorts on the offense... and yet the fan base and the gamblers still saw enough there for 6+ wins.

If your 19 years into your job being .500 as a floor isn't that impressive. I get that Brian was new, he had a bottom 20% offense, but the man at the helm has 19 years of "transitions" and "tough schedules." Again I'm not saying I want anyone gone. Someday the university is going to have to hire a new football coach and it's as if some, I will say no one in this thread has gone overboard, think the day a guy with the last name of Ferentz isn't running the program they will lock the doors and that flat isn't true.

 

[cmhawks99]

I think You are either a person who sees the glass half full or half empty. There are several examples of schools.making hires that improved the program. (FWIW the dude at Purdue is going to do it in front of us over then next couple years.)

Agreed but you're dismissing the hires that came between him and Joe Tiller... that's kind of the point

 

[TooTall25]

Iowa's record of placing under-recruited players into the NFL knows few, if any, equals. This points to Ferentz being an exceedingly good "football educator" ... being able to create a superb learning environment for his players. Few are better in the game. I know that I'm in the minority - but this facet of his resume is one of the factors that I respect the most about Ferentz.

I would maintain that you are not in the minority. You are part of the non-vocal majority who know what a good thing we have at Iowa.

 

[kceasthawk]

If your 19 years into your job being .500 as a floor isn't that impressive. I get that Brian was new, he had a bottom 20% offense, but the man at the helm has 19 years of "transitions" and "tough schedules." Again I'm not saying I want anyone gone. Someday the university is going to have to hire a new football coach and it's as if some, I will say no one in this thread has gone overboard, think the day a guy with the last name of Ferentz isn't running the program they will lock the doors and that flat isn't true.

Most of us don't believe a coaching change will automatically bring a return to the dark days of the 60's and 70's. We simply point out there will be risks,and you can look around the country at teams who have made numerous coaching changes during KF's tenure, and many of them in major conferences have been unable to obtain consistent solid teams.

 

[kceasthawk]

I think You are either a person who sees the glass half full or half empty. There are several examples of schools.making hires that improved the program. (FWIW the dude at Purdue is going to do it in front of us over then next couple years.)

He very well may, and he may not. we'll see over the next three or four years if he can turn Purdue into a team capable of playing for the conference title every three or four years.

 

[KFsdisciple]

Agreed but you're dismissing the hires that came between him and Joe Tiller... that's kind of the point

I wish there was a "love" button and not just like... this is exactly the point!

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

I get it guys. My neighbors growing up got a divorce, my parents divorced, more than 50 percent of marriages end in failure.... thus I should never fall in love as a way of avoiding divorce. Guess what guys if the new guy didn't work, he would be here for 4-5 years, and would be replaced. Rinse and repeat. And we would need to do this about 5 times in the next decade to get back to "average" over a 50 year span. KF is a great guy for us and again I'm not wishing he go anywhere but we can/will replace him and we can/will do better. Even if it takes a couple trys.

 

[KFsdisciple]

Agreed but you're dismissing the MULTIPLE hires that came between him and Joe Tiller... that's kind of the point

FIFY

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

FWIW there is an underlying tone that needs to be discussed and that is it seems NO ONE really thinks Barta is capable of maming a great hire for us.

 

[cmhawks99]

I wish there was a "love" button and not just like... this is exactly the point!

Yes...it goes with the historical perspective I often talk about.

Texas, USC, Michigan, ND, UCLA, Florida, Miami....etc, etc...ad nuaseam

Then there is Syracuse and others like them that have STILL never recovered

It's a scary proposition !

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

I think You are either a person who sees the glass half full or half empty. There are several examples of schools.making hires that improved the program. (FWIW the dude at Purdue is going to do it in front of us over then next couple years.)

A few things about Brohm is .... how long is he going to be able to retain those defensive coaches? The defensive turnaround at Purdue was almost miraculous. Brohm appears to be a scratch-where-it-itches type of coach ... thus, Iowa fans can definitely see him and appreciate him given that he likely reminds them of Fry.

However, is Brohm the type of guy who will stay at Purdue? Given that he was already interviewing with Tennessee ... that remains unclear. Even if he does stick around ... he's given places like Michigan State a lot of negative recruiting ammunition to start questioning how long Brohm will be sticking at Purdue.

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

There are always going to be 1000000 reasons someone can look at something and tell you why it shouldnt/wouldn't work. Again glass half full or empty. Just sonyou guys dont have a panic attack, there will be a day when Ferentz isn't coaching our guys..... and it's probably only a few years away.

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

Brohm was about the 7th guy called by the most desperate school in recorded history. Yeah he might go somewhere but it isn't like there are not a bunch of coaches. One thing Iowa has going for it is generally coaches are smart, smart enough to know a good gig and not, we will have a higher level of applicant due to our loyalty to coaches compared to a average big10 team. Which is already higher level than 75% of teams.

 

[cmhawks99]

FWIW there is an underlying tone that needs to be discussed and that is it seems NO ONE really thinks Barta is capable of maming a great hire for us.

Not anymore than an other big time AD that has failed over and over!

 

[cmhawks99]

Brohm was about the 7th guy called by the most desperate school in recorded history. Yeah he might go somewhere but it isn't like there are not a bunch of coaches. One thing Iowa has going for it is generally coaches are smart, smart enough to know a good gig and not, we will have a higher level of applicant due to our loyalty to coaches compared to a average big10 team. Which is already higher level than 75% of teams.

I would agree with this for the most part

 

[Wasnt-drunk-didnt-troll]

For those that tend to be on the "Ferentz forever" as I will jokingly call it. Is it you don't think there is anyone better for Iowa out there? Or you don't think Barta is capable of finding that person?

 

[KFsdisciple]

For those that tend to be on the "Ferentz forever" as I will jokingly call it. Is it you don't think there is anyone better for Iowa out there? Or you don't think Barta is capable of finding that person?

I think that its a very small pool of candidates, guys who understand the culture of the state of iowa, accept the recruiting challenges inherent with the job, are capable of coaching said talent, and understanding what kind of football can be winning football with the challenges...oh and be willing to live and work in the fishbowl that is iowa city where you can't eat dinner or grocery shop without everyone knowing who you are...

with that in mind... I don't see Iowa landing elite big name coaches like a Stoops/Harbaugh/Kelly/ or name the top guy on any board.... they are gonna have to go to the well that produced an unknown like a KF and hope we catch lightening in a bottle twice...