RFK hearing day - So do we want transparency and accountability?

[bunsen82]

Diagnosis may have changed the numbers to a small extent, but according to the experts it cannot explain the majority of the epidemic.

Natural drink the cool aid drink the cool aid. From AI

The timeline of vaccine schedules does not align with any significant change in autism diagnosis rates, with extensive research demonstrating no causal link between vaccines and autism; while the diagnosis of autism has increased over time, this is primarily attributed to improved diagnostic criteria and awareness, not changes in vaccination practices.

So lets just think this over, if the schedule has been fairly set since the 90's for vaccines, and actual since early 2000's vaccine usage began to decline, wouldn't you have thought with the increased schedule, you would have seen a drastic increase of autism in the 90's. So a jump in 94, a flatline til about 2010, then a gradual decline as less parents began vaccinating their children if its vaccines. As of this year, Kindergarteners down to 93% and I have heard in some areas closer to 89%. Then why is Autism still increasing, not decreasing. Your group should be decreasing the numbers or flatlining the numbers if your hypothosis was correct.

 

[bunsen82]

All these quotes above are just from page 9 of this thread.

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" -Anonymous

Isn't this fun?

Really, all those posts show the following:

1. You called me out for not posting studies multiple times, multiple times I tell you they are posted. You tell me game over because I didn't post the vaccines, then I have to hold your hand and show you.
2. You state I didn't show you the studies you wanted. I showed you studies, you disagree.
3. I show you why your theory is bonkers, you have no statistics to back up your claim.
4. You bring up Parents who claim child died of vaccines, with no proof.
5. You claim Pharma had an anti-vaxxer whacked.
6. You admit the MMR is safe that it is thus the increased scheduled.
7. I Stated have you not considered the change in diagnosis for the increase in autism rates?
8. Your response is researcher state might have changed a little not that much (found in no study ever).
9. If it was vaccines, you would have seen an immediate increase to a higher percentage of autism, then a flatline, then a decline as less parents are vaccinating. This is simple math and science.
10. In between you brought up a study saying this is your #1 study showing vaccines are unsafe: In the summary literally states the following: Although vaccines are not 100% safe, there are very very few adverse effects.

Yes I am frustrated with you. You don't understand science you don't understand math. You don't understand singular claims by parents with nothing to back it up is just sensational, but overall is meaningless. That random accounts of someone claiming they are being stalked by Pharma an someone else insinuating they were killed by Pharma isn't necessarily the truth. The IQ and general inability to fully understand what is occurring is generally worrisome. I have tried to show you your fallibilities, counter claiming every claim you have had.

Ultimately, your summary is this:
1. We cannot say vaccines do not cause autism.
2. You agree with the safety and efficacy of MMR and Thimerosal, but you now think its the vaccine schedule.

Thus I leave you with the report of anti vaxxers, 1st claiming MMR (refuted with studies), then thimersol (again refuted with studies). What more do we have to do for these idiots.

Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses - PMC

Although child vaccination rates remain high, some parental concern persists that vaccines might cause autism. Three specific hypotheses have been proposed: (1) the combination measles-mumps-rubella vaccine causes autism by damaging the intestinal ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yet you believe because slander was used you are the winner of this debate. No I am just frustrated with your idiocy. The enduring term of quack is well earned.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Really, all those posts show the following:

1. You called me out for not posting studies multiple times, multiple times I tell you they are posted. You tell me game over because I didn't post the vaccines, then I have to hold your hand and show you.
2. You state I didn't show you the studies you wanted. I showed you studies, you disagree.
3. I show you why your theory is bonkers, you have no statistics to back up your claim.
4. You bring up Parents who claim child died of vaccines, with no proof.
5. You claim Pharma had an anti-vaxxer whacked.
6. You admit the MMR is safe that it is thus the increased scheduled.
7. I Stated have you not considered the change in diagnosis for the increase in autism rates?
8. Your response is researcher state might have changed a little not that much (found in no study ever).
9. If it was vaccines, you would have seen an immediate increase to a higher percentage of autism, then a flatline, then a decline as less parents are vaccinating. This is simple math and science.
10. In between you brought up a study saying this is your #1 study showing vaccines are unsafe: In the summary literally states the following: Although vaccines are not 100% safe, there are very very few adverse effects.

Yes I am frustrated with you. You don't understand science you don't understand math. You don't understand singular claims by parents with nothing to back it up is just sensational, but overall is meaningless. That random accounts of someone claiming they are being stalked by Pharma an someone else insinuating they were killed by Pharma isn't necessarily the truth. The IQ and general inability to fully understand what is occurring is generally worrisome. I have tried to show you your fallibilities, counter claiming every claim you have had.

Ultimately, your summary is this:
1. We cannot say vaccines do not cause vaccine.
2. You agree with the safety and efficacy of MMR and Thimerosal, but you now think its the vaccine schedule.

Thus I leave you with the report of anti vaxxers, 1st claiming MMR (refuted with studies), then thimersol (again refuted with studies). What more do we have to do for these idiots.

Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses - PMC

Although child vaccination rates remain high, some parental concern persists that vaccines might cause autism. Three specific hypotheses have been proposed: (1) the combination measles-mumps-rubella vaccine causes autism by damaging the intestinal ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yet you believe because slander was used you are the winner of this debate. No I am just frustrated with your idiocy. The enduring term of quack is well earned.

You posting that garbage editorial from the Pharma profiteer, Paul Offit, does nothing to bolster your claims.

He represents an industry whose motto is 'Injections and Drugs From Cradle to Grave'. Snake oil salesmen who make billion$ peddling their wares that make people sick for life.

☠️ 💊💉

 

[bunsen82]

You posting that garbage editorial from the Pharma profiteer, Paul Offit, does nothing to bolster your claims.

He represents an industry whose motto is 'Injections and Drugs From Cradle to Grave'. Snake oil salesmen who make billion$ peddling their wares that make people sick for life.

☠️ 💊💉

There goes the retort, they are paid for . . . . didn't we just hear that from RFK. Moron, even Natural agrees there are 100 studies supporting that MMR and Thimerosal are safe and effective. That is what his report is. That individuals like you just keep changing their narrative when they are rebuked. You come up with a theory, they do the studies, show you you are wrong, you come up with another claim, they do the studies and show you that you are wrong. It has nothing to do with money, all with the facts and science. Again, refer to the above. If you can't understand it, just remain quiet because it is clear you are outside your realm on talking about vaccines. Please bring up again about how Pharma killed an Anti-Vaxxer that is just blatantly false. Michael this is your realm, trying to create distrust by throwing out lies and false claims.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

1. We cannot say vaccines do not cause vaccine.

🤦‍♂️

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Really, all those posts show the following:

1. You called me out for not posting studies multiple times, multiple times I tell you they are posted. You tell me game over because I didn't post the vaccines, then I have to hold your hand and show you.
2. You state I didn't show you the studies you wanted. I showed you studies, you disagree.
3. I show you why your theory is bonkers, you have no statistics to back up your claim.
4. You bring up Parents who claim child died of vaccines, with no proof.
5. You claim Pharma had an anti-vaxxer whacked.
6. You admit the MMR is safe that it is thus the increased scheduled.
7. I Stated have you not considered the change in diagnosis for the increase in autism rates?
8. Your response is researcher state might have changed a little not that much (found in no study ever).
9. If it was vaccines, you would have seen an immediate increase to a higher percentage of autism, then a flatline, then a decline as less parents are vaccinating. This is simple math and science.
10. In between you brought up a study saying this is your #1 study showing vaccines are unsafe: In the summary literally states the following: Although vaccines are not 100% safe, there are very very few adverse effects.

Yes I am frustrated with you. You don't understand science you don't understand math. You don't understand singular claims by parents with nothing to back it up is just sensational, but overall is meaningless. That random accounts of someone claiming they are being stalked by Pharma an someone else insinuating they were killed by Pharma isn't necessarily the truth. The IQ and general inability to fully understand what is occurring is generally worrisome. I have tried to show you your fallibilities, counter claiming every claim you have had.

Ultimately, your summary is this:
1. We cannot say vaccines do not cause vaccine.
2. You agree with the safety and efficacy of MMR and Thimerosal, but you now think its the vaccine schedule.

Thus I leave you with the report of anti vaxxers, 1st claiming MMR (refuted with studies), then thimersol (again refuted with studies). What more do we have to do for these idiots.

Vaccines and Autism: A Tale of Shifting Hypotheses - PMC

Although child vaccination rates remain high, some parental concern persists that vaccines might cause autism. Three specific hypotheses have been proposed: (1) the combination measles-mumps-rubella vaccine causes autism by damaging the intestinal ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yet you believe because slander was used you are the winner of this debate. No I am just frustrated with your idiocy. The enduring term of quack is well earned.

I'm not going to waste my time responding to all this. You're not listening, bringing up things that don't matter, not providing studies, not realizing the lack of said studies is an issue and not caring that they don't exist, and not acknowledging studies provided to you indicating issues. We're just going to have to agree to disagree, see if RFK is confirmed and see who was right.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

You posting that garbage editorial from the Pharma profiteer, Paul Offit, does nothing to bolster your claims.

He represents an industry whose motto is 'Injections and Drugs From Cradle to Grave'. Snake oil salesmen who make billion$ peddling their wares that make people sick for life.

☠️ 💊💉

Speaking of Offit, remember when he said this? Good times!

 

[bunsen82]

I'm not going to waste my time responding to all this. You're not listening, bringing up things that don't matter, not providing studies, not realizing the lack of said studies is an issue and not caring that they don't exist, and not acknowledging studies provided to you indicating issues. We're just going to have to agree to disagree, see if RFK is confirmed and see who was right.

You agree there are 100 studies correct, that's what you said above???

You agree that Pharma did not kill a anti-vaxxer correct??

You agree that if the schedule was the issue we should have seen a dramatic increase in autism and then a decline as more people are not vaccinate their kids? Correct Not a gradual incline like we have seen

You agree that you have said MMR and thimersol are safe and affective, correct?

You agree that anti-vaxxers have stated MMR was the issue first, then thimerosal, now the schedule even though the science and charts don't show it correct?

You agree that your big study showing adverse effects of vaccines states that Vaccines although cannot be 100% safe, have very few adverse effects.

Yes calling out you when you bring up family member stating their child got autism from vaccines, or died from vaccines with no proof, is not a scientific data point. Same with you trying to sensationalize an antivaxxer dying from pharma companies when that was not the truth. As a whole, you and Michael rely on Lies, so when that is the factual basis that someone is going against, they have to call it out.

As to lack of said studies, tell me what they should be studying? Up to this point there is no specific thing you can point to. That leaves the interpretation wide open. You can't tell me there is an issue because a lack of studies, that is preposterous.

As to RFK, ultimately who cares, he paid for his position - he ran as a 3rd party candidate and negotiated for this position. The very antithesis of monetizing on his votes, not his knowledge base. If the republican party puts him through, it shows how far the US has fallen.

See when facts are shown, that you know you can't refute you just take the ball and walk away and just saying we are going to have to agree to disagree. See this is how an actual debate goes. And you realize that my stance is correct but you are unwilling to admit it here or to yourself.

Naturalbornhawk: "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" -Anonymous" You were the moron that made that comment. So the last several posts is showing you, what the whole antivax movement comes down to, your arguments and ect, really have no basis in fact. The debate was never lost on my end, I merely just started calling you quacks, retarded and ignorant, when you would post lies and ignore facts.

Game, set, match. Isn’t this fun 😉

 

[bunsen82]

Speaking of Offit, remember when he said this? Good times!

View embedded media

You realize that he just said, its 99.99% certain it doesn't cause it, but if you leave a door open, morons like you, overstate its importance.

 

[bunsen82]

🤦‍♂️

If thats what you got out of that holy shit, where's the Tylenol. It was autism, do you agree that these are the 2 current stances by you. I am just trying to pin down your stance because it seems to be a moving target:

1. We cannot say vaccines do not cause autism.
2. You agree with the safety and efficacy of MMR and Thimerosal, but you now think its the vaccine schedule.

 

[bunsen82]

Btw, nowhere in my post did I say I thought she was offed by pharma ?

"I wondered what happened to her! Damn pharma is corrupt as hell and so many times over the years all these HBOT assholes here would stick up for them." On article stating she had just died after being a whistleblower. That the video basically ends with her saying if she is hurt or dies it’s the pharma industry.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

"I wondered what happened to her! Damn pharma is corrupt as hell and so many times over the years all these HBOT assholes here would stick up for them." On article stating she had just died after being a whistleblower. That the video basically ends with her saying if she is hurt or dies it’s the pharma industry.

I wondered what happened to her, meaning I wondered what happened to her.

Damn pharma is corrupt as hell because they were probably the ones that broke into her house and creeping outside.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

2. You agree with the safety and efficacy of MMR and Thimerosal, but you now think its the vaccine schedule.

I don't agree with you about their safety. I think the MMR is fairly effective overall.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

You agree that Pharma did not kill a anti-vaxxer correct??

I'm not 100% sure what happened, I wasn't there. The whole situation still seems strange. That said, I'll grant it to you so we can move on.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

You agree there are 100 studies correct, that's what you said above???

There are over 100 studies, with meta-analyses on top of that. MMR / thimerosal only.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

I don't agree with you about their safety. I think the MMR is fairly effective overall.

You're much more generous than I.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

You realize that he just said, its 99.99% certain it doesn't cause it

No, I didn't see that.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

You're much more generous than I.

Yeah, I mostly concentrate on safety so I think I'm granting it to him to get him to shut up. His stupidity is wearing me out LOL

 

[bunsen82]

In my very first post nearly 18 years ago questioning vaccines I had tarheel post over 100 MMR + thimerosal studies claiming the science was settled, along with several other choice words. I didn't know what to do with them at first. After looking into it deeper I learned that they all had those 2 exact same common denominators. That's why I specifically said right at the start of my request to provide studies OTHER THAN MMR and thimerosal. I have already been provided those studies and many more like them. Then you post studies I asked you to avoid and then call me a retard for not accepting them. LMAO!

Bunsen. I know that well over 100 MMR and thimerosal studies exist. I'm telling you that's one ingredient and one vaccine type. There are many other ingredients and there are many other vaccines on the childhood schedule. I asked you to provide any studies you can find other than those two. If those studies existed they would have been provided to me by now after all these years. The only conclusion that I am forced to come to is that they haven't tested the other vaccines or the other ingredients or any combination thereof with any type of favorable results indicating safety.

Also, it's important to note the autism rate was extremely low in the 80's when the MMR, Polio, and DTP were the only ones administered. The autism rate ramped up at the same time the schedule ramped up. Hence, my comments about the schedule being the issue.

I thought it was well established by your statements above that you agreed they were safe and effective.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

You're much more generous than I.

Oh, this right here is pure gold. Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Oh, this right here is pure gold. Exactly what I was thinking.

View embedded media

🎯

This video backs up what Stanley Plotkin was forced to admit during his deposition.

x.com

x.com

This shit's satanic.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

I thought it was well established by your statements above that you agreed they were safe and effective.

I spoke nothing about the quality of those studies, but simply that they were studied. Those studies were pure fraudulent garbage.

 

[bunsen82]

I spoke nothing about the quality of those studies, but simply that they were studied. Those studies were pure fraudulent garbage.

100 studies and pure fraudulent? That is a mighty strong take. You either have brass balls or some mighty good evidence to support. Now how can you be so confident in what I consider biased studies from last week, yet claim 100 different studies are extremely biased or in your words fraudulent. I have a feeling this is going to get fun.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

🎯

This video backs up what Stanley Plotkin was forced to admit during his deposition.

x.com

x.com

This shit's satanic.

Satanic bastards. And the people of HBOT are completely cool with it. They see these posts, but nobody will say a word, but yet will still hit the ground running claiming they're safe and effective.

It's a cult.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I'm not going to waste my time responding to all this. You're not listening, bringing up things that don't matter, not providing studies, not realizing the lack of said studies is an issue and not caring that they don't exist, and not acknowledging studies provided to you indicating issues. We're just going to have to agree to disagree, see if RFK is confirmed and see who was right.

It’s because you can’t. You base your ideas off feelings not fact.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

100 studies and pure fraudulent? That is a mighty strong take. You either have brass balls or some mighty good evidence to support. Now how can you be so confident in what I consider fraudulent studies from last week, yet claim 100 different studies are extremely biased or in your words fraudulent. I have a feeling this is going to get fun.

I’m curious if he believes in herd immunity.

 

[bunsen82]

I’m curious if he believes in herd immunity.

Well he has now called MMR both safe and effective (he may disagree), but then calls the studies fraudulent. How can you have something be safe and effective, yet at the same time have fraudulent studies that supports that take?

 

[naturalbornhawk]

100 studies and pure fraudulent? That is a mighty strong take. You either have brass balls or some mighty good evidence to support. Now how can you be so confident in what I consider fraudulent studies from last week, yet claim 100 different studies are extremely biased or in your words fraudulent. I have a feeling this is going to get fun.

I've read critiques on so many of them. Joe and others would say "what about this one" and sure enough there would be a perfect critique on them. They're gone from any searches now, but off the top of my head, none of the "unvaccinated" kids were completely unvaccinated, in fact "unvaccinated" in these studies means they only didn't get the MMR, and many of these studies would define "vaccinated" as having one or more vaccines. Healthy user bias is pretty much always an issue with them. Conflicts of interest galore. I remember one study from Canada using vaccine uptake data from Montreal, but ASD rates from a nearby city where the rates would be expected to be extremely low. Maybe tarheel remembers that one. Even given all this, at the end of the day, it's only MMR and thimerosal anyway. NO SCIENCE EXISTS ON THE OTHER VACCINES OR OTHER INGREDIENTS.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

I’m curious if he believes in herd immunity.

In theory, yes. In reality, the vast majority of adults in the US are not boosted according to the CDC's recommended adult schedule. Since the vaccines efficacies wane quite a bit through adulthood, to differing degrees across vaccine types what does that say about the current state of herd immunity in the US?

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Well he has now called MMR both safe and effective (he may disagree), but then calls the studies fraudulent. How can you have something be safe and effective, yet at the same time have fraudulent studies that supports that take?

Did I say the MMR was safe?

 

[naturalbornhawk]

It’s because you can’t. You base your ideas off feelings not fact.

What specifically are you talking about?

 

[bcherod]

Are any of you posting knowledgeable about autism?

It’s actually a birth defect, like blindness or deafness.

Kids do not develop autism, they’re born with it. It’s a sensory thing.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Are any of you posting knowledgeable about autism?

It’s actually a birth defect, like blindness or deafness.

Kids do not develop autism, they’re born with it. It’s a sensory thing.

No, actually vaccines are causing autism.

 

[bunsen82]

I've read critiques on so many of them. Joe and others would say "what about this one" and sure enough there would be a perfect critique on them. They're gone from any searches now, but off the top of my head, none of the "unvaccinated" kids were completely unvaccinated, in fact "unvaccinated" in these studies means they only didn't get the MMR, and many of these studies would define "vaccinated" as having one or more vaccines. Healthy user bias is pretty much always an issue with them. Conflicts of interest galore. I remember one study from Canada using vaccine uptake data from Montreal, but ASD rates from a nearby city where the rates would be expected to be extremely low. Maybe tarheel remembers that one. Even given all this, at the end of the day, it's only MMR and thimerosal anyway. NO SCIENCE EXISTS ON THE OTHER VACCINES OR OTHER INGREDIENTS.

 

[bunsen82]

Did I say the MMR was safe?

In regards to autism yes you did. You said that MMR had been given for decades and autism remained low. Even you have to admit if Autism is our base case MMR in and of itself has not shown an impact on autism.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

In regards to autism yes you did. You said that MMR had been given for decades and autism remained low. Even you have to admit if Autism is our base case MMR in and of itself has not shown an impact on autism.

OK yes. First of all we're speaking about only autism, so to say I said it was "safe" is a bit of a stretch. Also, you're forgetting about the synergistic effects. MMR + polio and DTP, autism remained relatively low during that time period. MMR + ramped up schedule not so much. If you test kids that get all scheduled vaccines against kids that are completely vaccinated, you'll see the synergistic effects of the schedule. That has not been done in studies that conclude any degree of safety.

 

[bunsen82]

OK yes. First of all we're speaking about only autism, so to say I said it was "safe" is a bit of a stretch. Also, you're forgetting about the synergistic effects. MMR + polio and DTP, autism remained relatively low during that time period. MMR + ramped up schedule not so much. If you test kids that get all scheduled vaccines against kids that are completely vaccinated, you'll see the synergistic effects of the schedule. That has not been done in studies that conclude any degree of safety.

Autism is really the only clear concise thing we can discuss. So then next question, if even you are willing to say that MMR is safe and effective, why are you surprised when the research finds it safe and effective? You state the studies were fraudulent. Now in response I used fraudulent to discuss the study from a couple weeks ago, that study wasn't fraudulent, it was highly biased and had conflicts of interest, even still its a data point. In and of itself I can't throw it out. From other research it appears to be an extreme outlier. So it will either continue to be an extreme outlier, or it will be confirmed with more studies. Your issue is, its not just 1 study, its a 100's of studies (your words). When it confirms even what you have said, they are no longer biased, they appear to actually be telling you the facts. Your issue is your having extreme confirmation bias. It just doesn't match up with your view on vaccines, thus you trying everything you can think of to try to negate them.

As has been shown in this thread, you don't have a basic knowledge base of science, research ect to be discussing this. You don't have a cogent argument or a strong thesis of your statement. You tend to jump from 1 argument to another, and post anything from your twitter feed. When pinned down, I have brought you all the way to my line of thinking. Attacking point by point, until, even now you will have to begrudgingly give in just like you did above.

Adios Natural. Until another time.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Autism is really the only clear concise thing we can discuss. So then next question, if even you are willing to say that MMR is safe and effective, why are you surprised when the research finds it safe and effective? You state the studies were fraudulent. Now in response I used fraudulent to discuss the study from a couple weeks ago, that study wasn't fraudulent, it was highly biased and had conflicts of interest, even still its a data point. In and of itself I can't throw it out. From other research it appears to be an extreme outlier. So it will either continue to be an extreme outlier, or it will be confirmed with more studies. Your issue is, its not just 1 study, its a 100's of studies (your words). When it confirms even what you have said, they are no longer biased, they appear to actually be telling you the facts. Your issue is your having extreme confirmation bias. It just doesn't match up with your view on vaccines, thus you trying everything you can think of to try to negate them.

As has been shown in this thread, you don't have a basic knowledge base of science, research ect to be discussing this. You don't have a cogent argument or a strong thesis of your statement. You tend to jump from 1 argument to another, and post anything from your twitter feed. When pinned down, I have brought you all the way to my line of thinking. Attacking point by point, until, even now you will have to begrudgingly give in just like you did above.

Adios Natural. Until another time.

I'll agree to end this debate for now, it's pointless. I believe the RFK vote is tomorrow morning. If confirmed and stays alive we'll have more light shed on this topic in the coming weeks and months. If somehow I'm wrong, I'll be here to admit I was wrong all along. Joe and his posse seem to have gotten out of the shilling business but you stuck around. Strange, isn't it? Will you or anyone be around when it comes out that I, Michael, shank, and Nat were all right?

 

[MichaelKeller99]

Autism is really the only clear concise thing we can discuss. So then next question, if even you are willing to say that MMR is safe and effective, why are you surprised when the research finds it safe and effective? You state the studies were fraudulent. Now in response I used fraudulent to discuss the study from a couple weeks ago, that study wasn't fraudulent, it was highly biased and had conflicts of interest, even still its a data point. In and of itself I can't throw it out. From other research it appears to be an extreme outlier. So it will either continue to be an extreme outlier, or it will be confirmed with more studies. Your issue is, its not just 1 study, its a 100's of studies (your words). When it confirms even what you have said, they are no longer biased, they appear to actually be telling you the facts. Your issue is your having extreme confirmation bias. It just doesn't match up with your view on vaccines, thus you trying everything you can think of to try to negate them.

As has been shown in this thread, you don't have a basic knowledge base of science, research ect to be discussing this. You don't have a cogent argument or a strong thesis of your statement. You tend to jump from 1 argument to another, and post anything from your twitter feed. When pinned down, I have brought you all the way to my line of thinking. Attacking point by point, until, even now you will have to begrudgingly give in just like you did above.

Adios Natural. Until another time.

You mean it this time?

 

[bunsen82]

I'll agree to end this debate for now, it's pointless. I believe the RFK vote is tomorrow morning. If confirmed and stays alive we'll have more light shed on this topic in the coming weeks and months. If somehow I'm wrong, I'll be here to admit I was wrong all along. Joe and his posse seem to have gotten out of the shilling business but you stuck around. Strange, isn't it? Will you or anyone be around when it comes out that I, Michael, shank, and Nat were all right?

Stop throwing around terms and arguments you don't understand. I have already told you I have no ties to the pharma industry. I will be here whatever comes, Truth always rises to the top, whether it agrees with your stance or not. I feel very confident in my viewpoints, it may change. I have shown how you have been wrong multiple times in this thread, so I am not sure how you can be so confidant. Really be careful with that confirmation bias. Also the others likely gave up, because you won't change your mind. No different than this situation.