No one here is ridiculing Jenner for what he did. We're simply arguing that he/she does not deserve this award over the others who were more worthy.
Should Lauren Hill get the Ashe Award for Courage over Jenner?
- Thread starter Drmac22
- Start date
No, by that measure every liberal is courageous. Raising money for a popular cause obviously isn't couragious. Neither is dying of a disease, even if you use your time efficently. Courage in my mind needs to involve some sacrifice, some risk, some over coming of fear. Ashe did that and got the award named for him. Jenner did that in a similar way. Hill, fortunately for her was not in a situation that required courage as I see it.
Sure she's courageous - I have no problem acknowledging Jenner's courage. But Hill and Galloway are both more deserving of this award...unless your interest is to pump up ratings.
So why hasn't ESPN given the award to the tennis player or golfer that have done the same thing as Jenner while still trying to play the sport? They have fought being rejected by the sport and associations when all they want to do is play, which is way more courageous than a publicity hog.
Waking up and knowing you're very likely to die at a young age, and choosing not to give out and lay in bed all day isn't courageous? Jenner made a personal decision and the media just loves him for it,he's getting awards for it, etc. Sure we are all going to die, but we most on here have lived a life to speak of that included decades. She died as a kid still, barely had time to enjoy life. Perhaps I could find ways to show you what courage is all about?
He's not even close to the first to do it, and he's got the media and the hollywood types backing him in his 'courageous' journey. He's got millions of dollars at his disposal, and is currently the most popular person on the planet. Anybody who criticizes him will be publicly bombarded by morons and media types in revenge, Again, I'm not impressed.
That seems like a good point. If you want me to guess I'd say it was the Author Ashe effect of Jenner having the standing to change opinions on this matter that made the differance. We all know Ashe wasn't the first person to come out with HIV and Jenner isn't the first to come out Tran. But both of them risked when they did come out and both made life better for others by doing so.
No, I don't consider getting out of bed a couragious act worthy of the Ashe award for courage. You're just repeating yourself here. I get you think otherwise, we disagree. I've explained what I think courage is. I've explained why I thin Ashe and Jenner displayed it in similar ways. I don't think Hill's very laudable efforts rise to the level of courage deserving of this award over what I view as real risk taking. Make up a new award for really great people if you want to honor Hill. Name it after her even, but she ain't Ashe worthy, Jenner is.
You serious, Clark? You don't think there's fear in being told at 18 that you're dying? You don;t think it takes courage to overcome that fear and do something positive with the time you have left?
You're WAAAAAAAY off on this one.
Jenners practically surrounded by the liberal, media, Hollywood, and LGBT community in his 'courageous' efforts. What is so courageous about that? Anybody throws a stone his way, they are going to throw nuke bombs right back. Plus he's a big girl, he can handle his own decision.
Was Lauren accompanied by such an entourage when death came? No, she wasn't. She died and her life is over.
This is very telling when me an Tarheel agree Natural. This only probably happens once a century, i'd pay attention to what we have to say about this. Or don't, because I enjoy our debates.
Not in the same way Ashe did, because there was no risk involed. Jenner is more Ashe like, hence more worthy of this award.
In this case than I think Noah Galloway is a far better representative. He not only fought as a soldier, but after losing an arm and leg during the war, he didn't give up and in October was on the cover of Men's Health discussing his journey. He is an inspiration to a ton of soldiers that have returned home injured and thought their lives were over. I have attached a link with his story for you.
http://www.menshealth.com/best-life/ultimate-mens-health-guy-winner
I have a feeling you're just make shit up now. You think Hill died alone where the libs were behind a republican before he came out? Get off my lawn, you know nothing.
Me too, I'm enjoying myself immensely. But I agree it's very telling that you want to throw in the towel.
It would appear, natural, that besides Jenner the only worthy recipient in the history of the award would be Michael Sam unless you think Robin Roberts got it for coming out publicly while she was recovering from her cancer.
Not at all, Galloway seems like a fine example of a sports person acting with courage. Or at least a courageous person who went on to play sports. That order is a little differant than Ashe so Id still say Jenner better exemplifies this award.
Ok, not a problem. I'm sort of an expert around here on the topic.
I'm not Jon Snow sucka, I know something. Go make a post somewhere about Jenner in a negative light, and see what sort of responses you get. You think the liberals as a whole are going to say something negative about Jenner? It completely demeans hugely significant and important part of their platform. Hill death, led her to nothing but just that, death. She's not alive anymore, and as a young lady, she knew this was coming. She knew that she was going to die, and suffer greatly before doing so.
The only person to know her pain truly was herself and herself alone. It lead to nowhere. Suffering, and knowing that every bit of that suffering is only leading to death, but still taking the time to do something good before she died, which likely required a lot of effort on her part, IS courage.
A boob job, some hormones, a makeover, etc. doesn't exactly compare Natural. His support leads to a 'free life'. Her support no matter how strong couldn't lead her to anywhere by her early demise.
We may be BFF's, but you are not going to be part of my council when winter comes. I need a Tyrion, not a Cersei.
I don't throw towels my friend, I pick up the towel the other corner threw in, wipe my arse with it, and throw it back.
Marrying that evil whore Kris Jenner took more courage and bravery than chopping his wang off.
And I don't get how some can compare what he did to the courage it took to fight a disease that took her life. I think what Jenner did is great. It will hopefully bring him happiness and that is what we all want and should strive for. But get real.
And I don't get how some can compare what he did to the courage it took to fight a disease that took her life. I think what Jenner did is great. It will hopefully bring him happiness and that is what we all want and should strive for. But get real.
I said about 5 years ago that ESPN was a money driven, agenda seeking, terrible excuse for a sports station.
I absolutely refuse to watch any of their stations unless the Hawks are playing. The only sports thing that runs deeper then my hate for ESPN is my love for the Hawks.
This whole thing is a joke, and makes a mockery out of the LGBT community in my opinion.
I absolutely refuse to watch any of their stations unless the Hawks are playing. The only sports thing that runs deeper then my hate for ESPN is my love for the Hawks.
This whole thing is a joke, and makes a mockery out of the LGBT community in my opinion.
Galloway didn't get it. What past recipient was deserving? It would appear that, aside from Sam, not one of them that I'm aware of demonstrated courage based on your criteria.
This is a bizzar fantasy. When Jenner was making the choice to act courageously and come out, he had no one in his corner, not even his family. Support gradually came to him from a few later after the risk, but it wasn't there waiting for him. Hill on the other hand, I would bet my last dollar, had support from all corners right up to and after her death. I get that Hill is sympathetic and did nice things that deserve some recognition. She just wasn't couragious like Ashe and Jenner or Galloway.
Probably the real reason he wants to be a woman, if he can't handle being around them, then join them. Think he'll follow Kim and pose for playboy?
It's obvious that the tabloid mafia has warped your sense of humanity. I can't help you with this. But I can tell you that you're wrong my friend.
Read this whole thread........wow! Natural....do yourself a favor, go back re-read your posts in this thread. You sound more than a bit "dickish" (see what I did there?) I just don't see the courage in what Bruce has done, and yes, I'm going to call him Bruce as long as his junk is still intact. Which he said in the interview would probably never happen (having it removed) He's has basically had some facial work done, grown out some hair and had some boobs slapped on his chest. Big deal.....and he even says he's still just going to date women......and he still has his penis. So, WTF is really going on here. I don't think we need to throw awards and rose petals at his feet.....I think he needs some more couch time.
Now before you go and call me some mouth-breathing knuckle dragger.......I don't give two craps what people do....it's a free country, just don't go and call me some sort of racists or homophobe or tranny-phobe (whatever the designation is when one still has his original parts) just because I don't agree with it or am unimpressed by it. Bruce needs some help.....and after being in that house with that collection of misfits, I'm actually surprised he hasn't done himself in long before this....which by the way is becoming more likely as he "transforms" Suicide rate in the trans-gender group is something like 7 times that of the general population.
Now before you go and call me some mouth-breathing knuckle dragger.......I don't give two craps what people do....it's a free country, just don't go and call me some sort of racists or homophobe or tranny-phobe (whatever the designation is when one still has his original parts) just because I don't agree with it or am unimpressed by it. Bruce needs some help.....and after being in that house with that collection of misfits, I'm actually surprised he hasn't done himself in long before this....which by the way is becoming more likely as he "transforms" Suicide rate in the trans-gender group is something like 7 times that of the general population.
ESPN is kind of like Etv for sports junkies. It's mostly just gossip and sports glamour BS.
It would be nice if Caitlyn gets up to recieve her award and announces that she is setting up a foundation, and to be the spokesperson, to help raise money for those people like her. SInce many in her position simply can not afford the enormous expense of what she did.
I believe a big part of the stigma is that many people can only afford pieces of the entire transformation through which Bruce went. The stigma is that these people end up looking like something that is in-between the two genders. This makes people - both the person in transition and the people in society - uncomfortable.
If all folks that want to go TRAN, as you suggested, could end up looking like Caitlyn i wonder how many would feel as scared as they do now. The economic end of this is quite meaningful and Jenner was then able to get his air-brushed face, liposuctioned body, fake breasts, professioanlly done hair all professionally placed on Vanity Fair. That is not really how the everyday person has to go thru this.
I'm wondering what kind of women he's going to be able to get. Most women I know want a man that's your traditional concept of a man. It's a turn on for most women to have a man's man. Why would you want a woman man, if you're a woman?
Any women care to share what they think of that?
I'm not interested in researching past winners. I gave you my criteria for what a winner should look like. This year of the 3 nominees I've heard of two seem qualified IMO. If it's true that past winners didn't have to risk anything to overcome fear than perhapse they should reward this award only when it's earned. I don't believe Hill has earned this honor.
Personally he should step down and not accept it. But he's an egomaniacal Hollywood type, so he won't. He'll get a standing ovation, and be the media darling of the hour until then.
Ok...let's play this game, natural. Ashe had HIV for three years before he revealed his condition. He only did THAT because he found out a paper was going to reveal it. All he did was get ahead of the story.
Ashe was retired. he was wealthy, he hadn't even gotten the disease by the most common route so he got FAR more sympathy than Magic. His courage was in the way he dealt with his disease and the grace he exhibited as he was dying. Those are the same qualities Hill displayed in abundance.
Jenner has risked absolutely nothing. She's 65 Wealthy. Surrounded by supporters. If she wanted to risk it all she should have climbed up on the podium at the Olympics in a dress. THAT would have been courageous and risky.
Jenner has the money and the means to do anything she wants. It doesn't take courage for her to indulge her wants now - that time was long ago. There is no risk to her in coming out now because she has absolutely nothing to lose.
How am I doing?
Ashe was retired. he was wealthy, he hadn't even gotten the disease by the most common route so he got FAR more sympathy than Magic. His courage was in the way he dealt with his disease and the grace he exhibited as he was dying. Those are the same qualities Hill displayed in abundance.
Jenner has risked absolutely nothing. She's 65 Wealthy. Surrounded by supporters. If she wanted to risk it all she should have climbed up on the podium at the Olympics in a dress. THAT would have been courageous and risky.
Jenner has the money and the means to do anything she wants. It doesn't take courage for her to indulge her wants now - that time was long ago. There is no risk to her in coming out now because she has absolutely nothing to lose.
How am I doing?
Latest posts
-
Iowa WBB gets 11-seed, rematch with Wisconsin in Big Ten Tournament- Latest: TigersHawks
-
I de-committed, and nobody wanted to be my friend. (Kadyn Proctor)
- Latest: TigersHawks
-
-
-
