In the end the war in Europe was won and lost on the Eastern Front all else was secondary.
Since when is saying Russia defeated Germany in WWII controversial?,...
- Thread starter preshlock
- Start date
I mean, it’s partially true. It’s also pretty much understood that without the backing of the US and other Allies, especially with Lend Lease, they would have folded. I believe Stalin himself admitted as much.
you could make the case that the Soviets could not have pushed the Germans back to Berlin without the Western Allies. But 85% of Lend Lease arrived after January 1, 1943. 75% after June 1, 1943. In the end the European portion of the Soviet Union was simply too large for the Germans to conquer.
Stalin said nothing of the sort.
Putin said Poland provoked Germany to attack to Tuckems a few days ago.
Sure bruh.
At a dinner toast with Allied leaders during the Tehran Conference in December 1943, Stalin added: “The United States … is a country of machines. Without the use of those machines through Lend-Lease, we would lose this war.”
https://it.usembassy.gov/america-sent-gear-to-the-ussr-to-help-win-world-war-ii/
Stalin viewed victory as strictly pushing the Germans entirely out of the Soviet Union and back to Berlin. It is very doubtful that the Soviets could have done so without Lend Lease. But Germany simply did not have the resources to conquer the European part of the Soviet Union.
That’s a helluva backtrack.
how? I said in my first reply you could make the case the Soviets could not have pushed the Germans back to Berlin without the Western Allies. Before mid-1943 the Soviets were not getting much meaningful help from the Western Allies.
I guess according to OOP, Soviets just got their spoils of war as a participation trophy from the other Allies?
I’m surprised that Cheeto knows who Napoleon is
the East Front was the main reason why Germany lost the war.
He's the guy who fired grapeshot at the Pyramids right
I don't doubt you. OOP = other original poster as in the guy whose tweet you shared.
We got the A-bomb first so we were going to win the war no matter what but I'll agree the Russians paid the blood cost in defeating the Germans.
true after the Trinity Test there was no way Germany would not have lost, had they still been in the war.
Along with paying the blood cost for defeating Germany the overwhelming majority of German casualties were on the Eastern Front. At least until the spring of 1945 when you had the mass surrenders to the West. The Soviets were much more than a hapless punching bag.
When it’s an American and not a Russian. Of course I can understand why you would consider Trump a Russian.
Soviets got through 1942 with negligible material from Lend Lease. But from mid-1943 onwards Lend Lease played a major role in them steadily pushing the Germans back to Berlin.
It is interesting how conventional wisdom can pick up and shed certain nuances from time to time.
Okay, Doesn't change the fact that they would have been f'd.
Wrong.
2.1% of US lend lease to the USSR came in 1941.
The Germans vastly underestimated the Soviets (Hitler caught in the paradox of his low opinion of the Slavs).
14% of US lend lease arrived to the USSR in 1942, by the end of which the Nazi hopes were burnt out.
Lend lease shortened the war, but the Soviets did 80% of the Nazi killing.
Without the Western Allies Germany would have most likely ended up with major a part of the Soviet Union. But even without the Western Allies the Soviet Union would have survived. During the planning for the invasion even Hitler realized that following a German victory the Soviet Union would continue to exist.
Didn't Germany basically lose the war as soon as they declared war on America?
It put them at an outnumbered disadvantage of 4 to 1 in men and material.
A year later, the Allies were bombing the Reich.
Thoughts?
For anyone interested, this fellow has a great 50 part(!) series on the Battle of Stalingrad.
when Hitler declared war on the United States his military had already sustained over 1,000,000 casualties {KIA, WIA, MIA, & POW}. Over 800,000 were on the Eastern Front. Aside from the U-Boats, which had not been propositioned off our coasts when Hitler declared war, Hitler had no way of taking the war to us. But basically the war was lost in December 1941 with the defeat at the Battle of Moscow and the declaration of war against us.
Over the middle of 1942 the RAF began the regular large-scale bombing of Germany. We first bombed Germany on January 27, 1943 and began large-scale bombing of Germany that March. In June 1943 the around the clock bombing campaign began. But Germany was probably doomed already by that point.
We really weren't in a position to due that much of great significance against Germany before early to mid 1943.
If you want to argue that Stalingrad was the most important battle of WWII and that led to Hitler and the German's fall, that is a conversation. Stating that Russia defeated Germany with zero context is ignorant.
I liked the first episode, I'm not committing to all 50, but will keep going. Thanks
Not a surprising comment coming from a man who clearly doesn't comprehend the critical importance of having allies
"For most of the war, 75-80 percent of the Wehrmacht had to be deployed in the East, a preponderance dictated by the sheer size of the front, and 80 percent of German war dead perished there: about four million of the five million German soldiers killed in World War II."
It was the Soviet offensive timed to draw away even more German resources that allowed the Allies to land in Normandy.
It was the Soviet offensive timed to draw away even more German resources that allowed the Allies to land in Normandy.
Would Germany have lost the war if the Allies granted Germany a ceasefire and left the Nazis in power?
The decision to invade the USSR was a monumental blunder but Hitler and outside observers thought they would win in a few months. They underestimated the Soviet capacity to throw bodies at them - millions of Soviet troops died in those first years and hundreds of thousands more were incapacitated or captured - and the Germans were unprepared when the war continued into a brutal winter.
On the other side, after Germany captured tens of thousands of Soviet soldiers, Stalin decreed that any Russian who surrendered would be executed after the war. He ordered the deployment of rear guard units who were instructed to fire on their own troops if there was a retreat. That the Russians “fought to the last man - or woman” - was at least partly due to not having a choice.
On the other side, after Germany captured tens of thousands of Soviet soldiers, Stalin decreed that any Russian who surrendered would be executed after the war. He ordered the deployment of rear guard units who were instructed to fire on their own troops if there was a retreat. That the Russians “fought to the last man - or woman” - was at least partly due to not having a choice.
The Russians reached Berlin, and Hitler, before the americans, but not by much.
It's undoubtedly true that without America the allies (including Russia) would have struggled mightily to win, but no matter how you slice it...
Trump's right here. Sorry all.
It's undoubtedly true that without America the allies (including Russia) would have struggled mightily to win, but no matter how you slice it...
Trump's right here. Sorry all.
Trump is saying the Russians did it - not Russia and its allies. How would the USSR have fared without a western front at all?
Russia couldn't have defeated the Germans alone.
Over half of the Luftwaffe was committed to the defense of Germany to combat the Allied bombing campaign that the Russians hardly participated in....the air campaign decimated the Luftwaffe.
As has been noted lend lease was vital to the russians. In particular the Russians relied on US made trucks for their logistics.
STUDEBAKER US6: THE LEND-LEASE ‘DEUCE AND A HALF’
Studebaker built tens of thousands of US6 "Deuce and a Half" trucks for the wartime Lend-Lease program, most destined for the Soviet Union.Studebaker built 105,917 six-wheel drive versions and 87,742 four-wheel drive versions of the US6 between 1941 and 1945, in 13 variations. Reo Motors built an additional 22,204 of the 6×6 U3. Of that total the United States shipped 152,000 trucks to the Soviet Union, mainly through the Persian Corridor. The Russians found the “Studer,” as they affectionately nicknamed it, robust and reliable, and its logistic contribution made it arguably the most significant American-supplied piece of hardware the Soviets used. Studebaker trucks also saw wartime service along the Burma Road and the Alcan Highway.
As far as D-Day contributing to the German collapse in the east in 1944
50% of Germany's mobile reserves (armored units, particularly the best waffen ss units) were committed to Normandy and were unavailable to stop the Russian "Bagration" offensive.
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safe.menlosecurity.com
It's pretty obvious the Russians don't defeat Germany alone.
Really debatable that the Red Army could have reached Berlin or even pushed the Germans entirely out of the Soviet Union without the Western Allies. But all the same the main reason, by far, Germany lost the war was because of the Eastern Front.
the bolded section is no where close to being accurate. In June 1944 the Germans had 33 panzer divisions of which 9 were in the West. Shortly after D-Day 2 more panzer divisions were pulled away from the East from and sent west. But the vast majority of the German ground forces included panzer divisions were on the Eastern Front. Overall on June 6, 1944 the Germans had 164 divisions on the East Front and 56 divisions on the West Front.
The strategic bombing campaign was the main reason why the Luftwaffe was defeated. But the bulk of German aircraft remained on the Eastern Front.
