Sit Out Transfers

[Auger]

Been doing some traveling for work and logging some flight hours. Sat next to a sports journalist today on a 6hr flight. He mostly covers College Basketball. He didn't have any info on Iowa Basketball other than info we already know as fans. One topic we spoke about at length was basketball transfers and how it's a growing trend. He said one of the biggest reasons its growing is because coaches love them. In the words of many coaches from teams in the B1G, Big 12, ACC, Big East and SEC is that they provide a better challenge for your team.

A lot of coaches today jump at the chance to take a sit out transfer from a major conference over high school recruits that rank in the 75-200 range because they improve the quality of your team better. The coaches want at least one every year because during their sit out year they captain the scout team and make the scout team better, which makes your starters and rotation players better and prepares them for games better. The transfer also mentors the freshmen while the coaches focus on main squad. This dude knows of several teams that when they were down to one scholarship the coaches chose transfers over top 100 recruits (50 - 100) because of their immediate and long term value.

Anyway he said more and more coaches are catching the bug and seeing the major benefits not just because you can plug holes in your lineup with a quality veteran. Its they make your roster and team better even during their sit out years. We've beaten a dead horse with Fran and transfers and don't want to continue beating the dead horse. But I did find this guys perspective very interesting. He also said there is no dead period in college basketball news anymore. It's now a 12 month a year job because of transfers, nba draft process and summer activities, and this off season has been his busiest in his 20 plus year career.

 

[ccrawford117]

Not sure about all that. A transfer over a Top 75-100 kid? Doubtful in my opinion

 

[Auger]

Not sure about all that. A transfer over a Top 75-100 kid? Doubtful in my opinion

He brought up how Ohio St is looking at that very thing right now. Holtmann loves having transfers on his roster. I guess CJ Walker was a huge help running the scout this last year. Much like Shayok was for ISU 2 years ago.

 

[hawkjt]

In theory, Pemsl ,Nunge and CJ should have filled those roles well for Iowa this past season. Maybe that helped us surprise this season. Really wish we had landed Harvey.

 

[HawkLogic]

Fran is starting to luv the Portal too, but his angle is to transfer his players out.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

In theory, Pemsl ,Nunge and CJ should have filled those roles well for Iowa this past season. Maybe that helped us surprise this season. Really wish we had landed Harvey.

We definitely needed to land Harvey. And another athletic wing and/or athletic big for THIS year. The transfer market is now. If Fran does not come through soon, he won't get it done.

If we do not land a transfer in the next couple of weeks, the time will have passed. He will have to move to the usual HS recruits.

The Hawks have missed out on most of our top recruits the last several years. Which happens to every team. That noted, we have a ton of scholarships to give out if we need. My question is, why not grab a solid plan B early? That way we aren't scrambling if someone does not come through?

There are a lot of good players out there to take. It always seems that Fran waits for the big fish, then he ends up with no one or scrambles for a fallback... Although Joe T could be that exception.

Why not grab a better fallback player now? Someone who can play multiple positions, the type Fran likes. If he can land the big fish, we will have the scholarship(s) available.

 

[mtdew_fever]

I completely agree on the sit out transfers. If you take a look at teams in the final fours, the majority had starters that were above the age of 20.

Would I rather have a 21/22 year old sit out transfer with experience or an unproven 18/19 incoming freshman? Give me that older player every day of the week.

I think Hoiberg mentioned a few years ago that a sit out transfer also helps with minutes because all 13 scholarship guys on the team want minutes, but that isnt realistic. Have 1-2 players out on the transfer every year and it helps with expectations and less locker room issues. They know their role for that year.

 

[IamHawkeye]

Been doing some traveling for work and logging some flight hours. Sat next to a sports journalist today on a 6hr flight. He mostly covers College Basketball. He didn't have any info on Iowa Basketball other than info we already know as fans. One topic we spoke about at length was basketball transfers and how it's a growing trend. He said one of the biggest reasons its growing is because coaches love them. In the words of many coaches from teams in the B1G, Big 12, ACC, Big East and SEC is that they provide a better challenge for your team.

A lot of coaches today jump at the chance to take a sit out transfer from a major conference over high school recruits that rank in the 75-200 range because they improve the quality of your team better. The coaches want at least one every year because during their sit out year they captain the scout team and make the scout team better, which makes your starters and rotation players better and prepares them for games better. The transfer also mentors the freshmen while the coaches focus on main squad. This dude knows of several teams that when they were down to one scholarship the coaches chose transfers over top 100 recruits (50 - 100) because of their immediate and long term value.

Anyway he said more and more coaches are catching the bug and seeing the major benefits not just because you can plug holes in your lineup with a quality veteran. Its they make your roster and team better even during their sit out years. We've beaten a dead horse with Fran and transfers and don't want to continue beating the dead horse. But I did find this guys perspective very interesting. He also said there is no dead period in college basketball news anymore. It's now a 12 month a year job because of transfers, nba draft process and summer activities, and this off season has been his busiest in his 20 plus year career.

Coaches love sit outs taking up scholarships?

 

[David1979]

Coaches love sit outs taking up scholarships?

Yes.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

I completely agree on the sit out transfers. If you take a look at teams in the final fours, the majority had starters that were above the age of 20.

Would I rather have a 21/22 year old sit out transfer with experience or an unproven 18/19 incoming freshman? Give me that older player every day of the week.

I think Hoiberg mentioned a few years ago that a sit out transfer also helps with minutes because all 13 scholarship guys on the team want minutes, but that isnt realistic. Have 1-2 players out on the transfer every year and it helps with expectations and less locker room issues. They know their role for that year.

There is the experience part. That cannot be understated. That extra year of coaching is incredibly valuable. But also they are much closer to their physical maturity. Which is where their top playing days will be, barring injury. What is wrong with being stronger(PMac), more experienced, better coached and knowing your teammates...?

A lot of people do not understand this. Which is dumbfounding to me. Sit out transfers, and redshirting in general, is a very good idea.

The balancing of scholarships is also hugely important. Not to mention that they players are fully aware of where they stand with the coach and the team. They already know their teammates tendencies the first day of eligibility to play for the team. That is an enormous benefit.

 

[mtdew_fever]

Yes without a doubt. Most teams only have a 8-9 man rotation with 2-3 others getting spot minutes depending on the game and injuries.

Those final 2 spots on a roster of 13 wont get any minutes and may transfer out if they dont like their amount of minutes, however you need at least 13 guys to run a practice.

Coaches love sit outs taking up scholarships?

 

[Cydkar]

Coaches love sit outs taking up scholarships?

Good ones

 

[Auger]

Minnesota this last year had two sit out transfers. One Carr would have been their starting PG this last year. Many have said he was their best player in practices. He is expected to be the starter this coming season and is good enough to score 15ppg and dish out 5-6apg. In his lone year at Pitt in his freshman season he avg'd 10ppg and 4apg. Reports are he has matured and has refined his skills and will be one of the better B1G PG's this year. The other sit out can make it rain from 3 and was unstoppable at times in practices. This dude I sat by on the plane said Minnesota will be the surprise team in the B1G next year because of these two transfers and Oturo who will be a double double machine who will also be the best post defender in the B1G as well as a possible lottery pick. They also got a quality grad transfer.

 

[517ELYDR]

Coaches love sit outs taking up scholarships?

you can't play 13 anyway.

 

[Pilsner]

I completely agree on the sit out transfers. If you take a look at teams in the final fours, the majority had starters that were above the age of 20.

Would I rather have a 21/22 year old sit out transfer with experience or an unproven 18/19 incoming freshman? Give me that older player every day of the week.

I think Hoiberg mentioned a few years ago that a sit out transfer also helps with minutes because all 13 scholarship guys on the team want minutes, but that isnt realistic. Have 1-2 players out on the transfer every year and it helps with expectations and less locker room issues. They know their role for that year.

It's the way the college game is now. If you're a net exporter of transfers (more players leaving via the portal than coming in), you're falling behind your peers.

 

[hawkjt]

This is one reason I hated to lose Moss. He was.a 5th year guy. We had invested a lot into and the pay off might go to someone else.
Seniors often have big seasons like Gatens and Jok. Sometimes it finally clicks. The Hawks need someone unexpected to be a big contributor for next year to be special. ..I thought it might be Ike.

 

[Titanhawk2]

Coaches love sit outs taking up scholarships?

Yes, opting for a Junior sitting out than a Freshman redshirting, not knowing anything. In this day and age you have to be more concerned about the next 2 years not 4 years down the road.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

It's the way the college game is now. If you're a net exporter of transfers (more players leaving via the portal than coming in), you're falling behind your peers.

That’s ridiculous. It works both ways. It has made it much more efficient to cull dead weight from the roster. It allows you to take a chance on under the radar kids and move on if they don’t show potential

 

[TCOOL]

Prohm just landed a sit 1, play 2 that was average at Troy.

Cant wait to hear the clone fans spin this one.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/javan-johnson-1.html

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

That’s ridiculous. It works both ways. It has made it much more efficient to cull dead weight from the roster. It allows you to take a chance on under the radar kids and move on if they don’t show potential

Fran is making a mistake by not rolling the dice on a few scholarships. You have two of your kids on the team, why the heck would not pickup a few extra players???

If they do not cut the cheese, they go the Brandon Hutton route. Simple as that.

EDIT: Brandon was a bad example. As He was a fallback recruit.... What I am saying is find those under the radar guys, and sign them in the early period. Not a last minute pickup... Focus on several guys just below the top of the cream. Ones with a lot of non-P5 offers are probably a good bet. Hopefully, as that is what Joe T was.

 

[Auger]

Prohm just landed a sit 1, play 2 that was average at Troy.

Cant wait to hear the clone fans spin this one.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/javan-johnson-1.html

As much as I want to agree with you here I don't want to jinx it. ISU has had some small school transfers or kids that didn't do much at other schools become solid to great players. They have also had a few flops. Who know with this kid he is a tall kid with a solid inside outside game the kind of player they like and have had success turning into a quality role players.

 

[Hayes_30]

you can't play 13 anyway.

Fran will take that bet.

 

[anon_wic6m41528ao4]

Fran is making a mistake by not rolling the dice on a few scholarships. You have two of your kids on the team, why the heck would not pickup a few extra players???

If they do not cut the cheese, they go the Brandon Hutton route. Simple as that.

EDIT: Brandon was a bad example. As He was a fallback recruit.... What I am saying is find those under the radar guys, and sign them in the early period. Not a last minute pickup... Focus on several guys just below the top of the cream. Ones with a lot of non-P5 offers are probably a good bet. Hopefully, as that is what Joe T was.

What? Fran does this every year. That is why people are complaining that he has too many transfers. He gives guys like Maishe, Brady Ellingson, Christian Williams a shot and they stink and they transfer.

I like targeting one under the radar guy a year. Just hope we actually start finding diamonds in the rough instead of more piles of crap.

 

[Hayes_30]

Prohm just landed a sit 1, play 2 that was average at Troy.

Cant wait to hear the clone fans spin this one.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/javan-johnson-1.html

He is a above average shooter who needs to develop a bit more. A sit out year will help him alot. Most Cyclone fans has him as their #2 Transfer they wanted. Rasir Bolton from Penn State was who most fans wanted.

 

[TCOOL]

He is a above average shooter who needs to develop a bit more. A sit out year will help him alot. Most Cyclone fans has him as their #2 Transfer they wanted. Rasir Bolton from Penn State was who most fans wanted.

Above average shooter? He shot 40% from the floor and played in the Sun Belt which was the 15th best conference in the country according to Sagarin.

And Clone fans had Rayjon Tucker at the top of their list for transfers ever since he announced he was visiting ISU.

And LOL at him being the #2 transfer that ISU fans wanted. Start reading here:

https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/th...9-transfer-thread.244179/page-25#post-6617785

 

[IowaPride95]

Above average shooter? He shot 40% from the floor and played in the Sun Belt which was the 15th best conference in the country according to Sagarin.

And Clone fans had Rayjon Tucker at the top of their list for transfers ever since he announced he was visiting ISU.

And LOL at him being the #2 transfer that ISU fans wanted. Start reading here:

https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/th...9-transfer-thread.244179/page-25#post-6617785

Yeah, he is just a project with upside. He was not near the top of any ISU fan I know's list, but the risk in taking him is pretty low. He played on a horrible team in a mediocre league. It will be interesting to see how he fares with better players around him after hitting the weight room for a year. Jeff Goodman did tweet that a coach he talked to felt Johnson has NBA potential, but who knows which coach that is to know the validity of the comment. Bottom line is he will need to develop, like most of ISU's recent sit out transfers have, while he sits out a year to be of much use down the road.

Bolton is the key to finishing things off now. Land him to go with Grill and ISU will have had a very solid spring filling some holes in the roster.

 

[hawkeyeguy69]

No, that is what myself & others have been saying. I will try to explain for you...

Fran takes a lot of fallbacks. He spends too much effort on his top picks, that he when he fails to land them, he ends up with nothing. But then he has to fill the scholarship with someone, or it is wasted. Then he gets a Dailey or a Hutton or a Williams in the late spring signing period. At that point you are picking table scraps....

Ellingson being the exception to the second signing period. But he too was a fallback. That is the problem.... (although to Brady's credit, he played his sophomore & junior year out of position. way too much at the point. He shot 47% from 3pt land this year.)

What I am referring to is finding the players that are decent, and have potential to grow and expand their game, now. Dig and find that player that is overlooked, or maybe go after some not as highly rated, then get the commitment - now. NOT a year from now. If they can't cut the mustard, then the writing will be on the wall.

Fran literally has/had the option to take 5 players this year for 2019-2020. He should have taken the top players that will commit, or transfer. That ship has pretty much sailed(with the exception of a possible transfer). That is a huge mistake, IMHO...

Fran, at this moment, has the option for 7 players for the 2020 season. SEVEN. Get some decent players to commit for the fall period NOW. Not fallback players a year from now... And hopefully land a big fish or three as well.

What? Fran does this every year. That is why people are complaining that he has too many transfers. He gives guys like Maishe, Brady Ellingson, Christian Williams a shot and they stink and they transfer.

I like targeting one under the radar guy a year. Just hope we actually start finding diamonds in the rough instead of more piles of crap.

 

[TCOOL]

Yeah, he is just a project with upside. He was not near the top of any ISU fan I know's list, but the risk in taking him is pretty low. He played on a horrible team in a mediocre league. It will be interesting to see how he fares with better players around him after hitting the weight room for a year. Jeff Goodman did tweet that a coach he talked to felt Johnson has NBA potential, but who knows which coach that is to know the validity of the comment. Bottom line is he will need to develop, like most of ISU's recent sit out transfers have, while he sits out a year to be of much use down the road.

Bolton is the key to finishing things off now. Land him to go with Grill and ISU will have had a very solid spring filling some holes in the roster.

Unless Bolton gets a waiver, not sure what his chances are, they have done nothing to address next season except add Grill who was ranked in the 400's until the most recent update.

 

[Hayes_30]

Above average shooter? He shot 40% from the floor and played in the Sun Belt which was the 15th best conference in the country according to Sagarin.

And Clone fans had Rayjon Tucker at the top of their list for transfers ever since he announced he was visiting ISU.

And LOL at him being the #2 transfer that ISU fans wanted. Start reading here:

https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/th...9-transfer-thread.244179/page-25#post-6617785

For Grad Transfers Tucker was absolutely #1 as for sit out transfers Bolton and Johnson have been the only 2 to make it to Ames. I should have been more clear for sit out guys Johnson was the #2 guy fans wanted.

 

[IowaPride95]

Unless Bolton gets a waiver, not sure what his chances are, they have done nothing to address next season except add Grill who was ranked in the 400's until the most recent update.

My assumption is they feel his chances of getting a waiver are very high or they will not take him. If he commits I expect him to be able to play next year. NCAA has handed out waivers very liberally as of late and I presume the athletic departments know what it takes to have a good shot of earning one now.
Grill and Jackson are both rated as top 20 or so point guard prospects now based on what they did this season. Odds are one of the two will be ready to contribute.
If Bolton is signed and does not receive a waiver, then next season could be rough but if he does get it, ISU will have proven double digits scorers in Nixon and Bolton as well as Haliburton and Lewis and the three incoming freshman guards. Would give me optimism for being able to compete

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

So how does this help Iowa win a national championship?..............

 

[TCOOL]

My assumption is they feel his chances of getting a waiver are very high or they will not take him. If he commits I expect him to be able to play next year. NCAA has handed out waivers very liberally as of late and I presume the athletic departments know what it takes to have a good shot of earning one now.
Grill and Jackson are both rated as top 20 or so point guard prospects now based on what they did this season. Odds are one of the two will be ready to contribute.
If Bolton is signed and does not receive a waiver, then next season could be rough but if he does get it, ISU will have proven double digits scorers in Nixon and Bolton as well as Haliburton and Lewis and the three incoming freshman guards. Would give me optimism for being able to compete

Lewis? LOL!

 

[CP84]

For Grad Transfers Tucker was absolutely #1 as for sit out transfers Bolton and Johnson have been the only 2 to make it to Ames. I should have been more clear for sit out guys Johnson was the #2 guy fans wanted.

They had that pg from Alabama, Lewis, before Tucker but he stayed at Bama.

 

[TCOOL]

They had that pg from Alabama, Lewis, before Tucker but he stayed at Bama.

He would have been a sit 1 play 3 transfer, not a grad transfer.