I don't know much about FB recruiting, but looking at the guys just signed it seems strange a little bit. All the OL guys are 295-305 or so. But our DL guys are 235 - 255. Some of the LBrs are 225. Why are DL smaller than OL? Also, this years DL are mostly 6'2" or 6'3" and I thought you wanted guys 6'5 to knock down passes. Can someone fill me in? Thanks.
Size of DL recruits
- Thread starter twindman
- Start date
A few things ...
- You want defensive linemen to be quick and explosive
- young defensive linemen who are already "huge" but are still quick and explosive are guys who are 4 or 5-star recruits. we don't get a ton of those guys in the recruiting game
- we bank on player development ... so we take guys who are quick and explosive and just physically develop them into "big guys"
- among d-linemen ... it's also critical to play with great leverage. The more upright a guy plays ... the easier it is to move him. Similarly, the lower to the ground a guy plays ... the harder it is to move him. Shorter guys tend to have better "natural" leverage.
- Just as before ... taller guys with great athleticism and bend (so they can play with great leverage) ... they tend to have a lot of stars by their name. Furthermore, taller D-linemen tend to also project really well on the OL. Really tall D-linemen aren't always as fast (because they're more on the lanky side) ... so it's typically harder for them to garner elite pay (in the NFL). They're more likely to get elite pay (in the NFL) if they're protecting the blindside of the QB.
We've had plenty of undersized DT's in the past 20 years. Just off the top of my head:
Mitch King
Matt Kroul
Karl Klug
Nathan Bazata
Sam Brincks
Brady Reiff
All of these guys were solid at worst, and great at best, and part of great defenses, despite weighing in the 270s.
Mitch King
Matt Kroul
Karl Klug
Nathan Bazata
Sam Brincks
Brady Reiff
All of these guys were solid at worst, and great at best, and part of great defenses, despite weighing in the 270s.
Because other than maybe QB, DL is the toughest position group to recruit in CFB. You need athletes who are quick, explosive, and powerful. There just aren’t that many Chase Young types on planet earth at 18 years of age who can come in ready made with great size and elite athleticism (JJ Watt was listed as 220 lbs as a recruit so probably weighed even less). Most guys have to be developed over a couple years with someone like Doyle and let their bodies mature over time to have both size and explosiveness.
Saban and Meyer both put a massive premium on elite DL prospects and recruit them relentlessly over all other positions. If you have a bad DL it creates massive problems for your back 7 (even elite DB’s can’t cover forever if the QB has all day), but if you have an elite DL it can actually cover up issues with the back 7 And ruin an offensive game plan by itself. Unfortunately for this reason TJ Bollers will be an enormous miss in this class IF he lives up to the hype.
Saban and Meyer both put a massive premium on elite DL prospects and recruit them relentlessly over all other positions. If you have a bad DL it creates massive problems for your back 7 (even elite DB’s can’t cover forever if the QB has all day), but if you have an elite DL it can actually cover up issues with the back 7 And ruin an offensive game plan by itself. Unfortunately for this reason TJ Bollers will be an enormous miss in this class IF he lives up to the hype.
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Bollers is listed as a LB with Wisconsin. Overrated regardless.
Anyway, I'm extremely concerned about the size of our DL. We don't get Daviyyon Nixons often.
Anyway, I'm extremely concerned about the size of our DL. We don't get Daviyyon Nixons often.
Also depends upon scheme. Defenses with a 3-4 scheme need that mammoth nose tackle to take on the extra blockers and clog space.
Because weak side OLB in a 3-4 is very similar to WDE in a 4-3. LMFAO that he is now magically overrated after spurning the Hawks for the Badgers. He could end up as a bust or a superstar depending on how he develops, but nobody really knows for sure at this point. DL is so tough to project.
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Considering we only recruited 4 guys to play D-line, 2 of which is an End, you shouldn’t be surprised to not see huge players. Bowie is an avid lifter, so he is pretty much pure muscle. Pittman needs to put on more weight, and then he’ll be fine. Middle is already at a decent weight, he just needs to put on about 20-30 lbs of muscle. Llewellyn is already at a good size, just needs more weight.
That is true, we don't. However, we typically always have a solid defense with an NFL guy or two on the line though. That's why our staff is so damn good.
Correct we rarely get D Nixon's very often. But I'm excited about this Dline class. And last years as well. My DL concern in recent years was the retirement of Reese Morgan but Kelvin Bell has not skipped a beat.
My biggest concern is if the lawsuit impacts next years recruiting. I feel this is the best back to back class in KF's tenure outside of the 05-06 recruiting classes. Those did provide us with a BCS bowl win.
I have no real worries about DL recruiting. I was just being sarcastic. Our recruiting has been good and is improving. Hope it continues.
Babs was a 6'2" 235 lb 2 star fullback out of HS.
He played 12 years in the NFL as a 6'2" 300 lbs defensive tackle.
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It not magically overrated all of the sudden. I paid attention to his high school production and it was nothing special.
Sorry guy, I think my sarcasm detector is broken.
You can find example after example of elite DL recruits who don’t put up big high school numbers but turn out to be elite in college. The ratings have a lot more to do with verified physical attributes, verified times, and drills at camps where every single recruit is on a level playing field. His were good enough to rank as a high 4 star (the 2nd highest rated player from IA in the last 4 years) and get offers from a who’s who of blue blood programs for a reason.
247Sports’ All-Combine Team from the 2020 National Combine
SAN ANTONIO — Friday at the Alamodome marked the annual National Combine for a few of the top underclassmen in the country and other hopefuls, who went through a
247sports.com
“DL - TJ Bollers - Our defensive line MVP, the four-star defensive end out of Tiffin (Iowa) Clear Creek Amana had a terrific morning, getting off his blocks quickly in the run blocking drills and then in the one-on-one’s showing a penchant to dip under his blocker or use an arsenal of moves to get to the passer. Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State and Cal are standing out to him.”
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Alright bud. I'll stick with my assessment.You can find example after example of elite DL recruits who don’t put up big high school numbers but turn out to be elite in college. The ratings have a lot more to do with verified physical attributes, verified times, and drills at camps where every single recruit is on a level playing field. His were good enough to rank as a high 4 star (the 2nd highest rated player from IA in the last 4 years) and get offers from a who’s who of blue blood programs for a reason.
247Sports’ All-Combine Team from the 2020 National Combine
SAN ANTONIO — Friday at the Alamodome marked the annual National Combine for a few of the top underclassmen in the country and other hopefuls, who went through a
“DL - TJ Bollers - Our defensive line MVP, the four-star defensive end out of Tiffin (Iowa) Clear Creek Amana had a terrific morning, getting off his blocks quickly in the run blocking drills and then in the one-on-one’s showing a penchant to dip under his blocker or use an arsenal of moves to get to the passer. Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State and Cal are standing out to him.”
Need more Richard Kittrells, Ettore Ewens and Ryan Bains. Oh wait, that didn’t work out well.
Not worried ...... Phil will be able to field a competent DL this coming fall from these guys:
D Craig 6-3 249
L Lee 6-5 267
I Bruce 6-2 273
J Waggoner 6-5 271
J Karchinski 6-4 279
Y Black 6-5 279
L Jones 6-3 267
Z VanValkenburg 6-4 270
J Evans 6-2 248
C Reames 6-7 255
N Shannon 6-0 288
L VanNess 6-5 259
E Hurkett 6-3 245
These guys have all been in the program now at least one season and the weights above were from last year.
Some really good talent here. I’m not as concerned as some. Probably why we haven’t taken anyone from the portal yet, although a decent experienced transfer would help.
I’m really interested to see the COVID impacts of recruiting. Nobody is having the kind of on-campus visits they were having before. I have a HS Jr this year (baseball player, not football) and the whole college visitation thing is weird, at minimum. I wonder how many guys Iowa gets are convinced from the on-campus visit when they come and see 70k strong in the stands.
Damn tootin!
I believe Ettore was playing as a freshman. He’d have made an impact if it weren’t for injuries. Bain looked really good early, but transferred because Kroul beat him out. Went to Akron and they made him a nose tackle... yikes. Imo if he would’ve stayed he’d have been an impact player. Prob rotational until 2009 like a Mike Daniels.
But yea who didn’t get hyped for the Big Human Richard Kittrel lol
Having followed Iowa recruiting for most of KF's tenure, here is a very loose rule of thumb:
If you're 6'2", weigh more that 235, can definitely play football but not a C, you're a DT. You're too big to play LB and too short to play DE, TE, G, or T.
Also, so I'm told, shortness at DT can be an advantage because it's easier to get low and gain leverage on the OL.
Bollers wanted to play LB in a 3-4 scheme and wouldn't budge. Ferentz and co thought he'd be a better DE in a 4-3. They couldn't come to an agreement so Bollers went with Wisconsin who runs the 3-4.
Ewen had injury issues for the Hawks ... otherwise he has a pretty full and successful career for the Hawks. As anothe poster had said ... he saw the field for the Hawks and played some quality snaps.
Bain was just more of a head-case ... good player, but couldn't get through his head that by being part of a strong rotation for the Hawks ... he'd still have realized his NFL aspirations. Instead, he rushed off into obscurity. Anyhow, Bain too was a useful contributor to the Hawks before he got into his own way.
Kittrell was the only "big man" who truly didn't work out. However, some of that could have been homesickness. I remember that Colin Cole is on record saying that for a little while, he was considering leaving too ... simply due to homesickness. He certainly seemed to be happy about sticking it out though ...
Nixon's primary asset wasn't his size ... although THAT certainly didn't hurt. Nixon has tremendous mobility for a guy with his size ... really impressive explosiveness and great lateral quickness. Nixon's ability to run down plays reminded me a lot of Jonathan Babineaux ... and I always considered Babs to be Iowa's "gold standard" under Ferentz.
However, part of Iowa's ability to land Nixon was linked to the fact that he was originally rather "border-line" in terms of grades.
Iowa's had a bit of a MO of taking the risk of going after high-athleticism big-men who are academically "borderline" (and potential academic liabilities). Iowa does such a thorough "background" check that they figure that the young men have the wherewithal and desire to turn things around ... they just need the chance. Sometimes that has worked out ... guys like Carl Davis and Daviyon Nixon being great example. However, there are other examples of guys who either don't work out ... or guys who we managed to not even get on campus. For example ... Donavan Johnson (from Texas - 2010 recruiting class) was one such guys ... seems he was an academic casualty .... but Coach K may have also been a contributing factor. More recently, there was Jalen Hunt ... from the '19 recruiting class. There seemed to initially be an issue with admittance/qualifying ... and then he ended up at Michigan State.
One thing about Babs is that he, not unlike Howard Hodges and Broderick Binns ... for a a guy who wasn't terribly "tall" ... he had pretty good reach. When you're short but you have a long reach ... that gives you some extra advantages in terms of leverage. Not the least of which is that it makes it really hard for an offensive lineman to lock in on you ... while you're trying to work around a block. You can then still disengage and make a play! All the while ... because of the great leverage ... you're also harder to move. You don't need to be a lard-ass to anchor well [you just have to play with a really low pad-level].
Yup, a good example is former Hawkeye DE Anthony Nelson who is now with the Bucs and is a 3-4 OLB behind Jason Pierre-Paul who was also a DE when in a 4-3 scheme.
Nixon's was 71 yards (assuming that's the one you're thinking of).
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