the people who can not understand doing the right thing, honoring your word, what does that say about your character.nobody here is saying they were legally bound to grant the release, only that they should have.
Smalls
- Thread starter ILhawk41
- Start date
Yes, irresponsible college freshmen failing to retain lawyers. Good point.
Smalls- Do you also think that ISU should have refused to release David Taylor, Cyler Sanderson and Matt Brown?
Then we are all happy you aren't a coach or an AD. Also shows your ethics and how you opperate on flo.
Tom Brands put those kids in the situation. Tom did what was best for Tom, not the kids. Tom Brands screwed those kids out of a year, not VT. BTW, they signed to attend the University. Read the contract.
Couldn't admit the truth before he died,
No but not if you had an understanding. Should have ISU just taken a year away from David Taylor? Why didn't Taylor and Cael get a signed agreement prior? Oh because it just happened suddenly. I don't blame either for going to PSU.
VT reneged period but in the ADs slightest defense he really didn't think it was going to happen in one year. But the Ohio state job opening up changed the landscape. Tom had no idea Zalesky was going to be canned a year later other wise he wouldn't even have left. All parties did not know otherwise why would Borschal and Slaton just went to Iowa for the get go. They even said that they wanted to be Hawks but individually thought in order to be champs they needed Brands. They were already best buddies with M* heading to Iowa City. They went to Blacksburg based on verbal reassurance if something would happen.
I realize that's not normal, but an AD goes out of his way when he is trying to build a program out of nothing. Im sure Weaver was bitter that he made a handshake on something he didn't think would come to fruition let alone within a year.
Willie I get your said and don't disagree. I also don't like the whole grad transfer thing in football or basketball now. But the VT thing doesn't really apply best for your side. Why don't you bring up Taylor and ISU releasing him to follow Cael. IMO that's more of an example of what you want to talk about.
No but not if you had an understanding. Should have ISU just taken a year away from David Taylor? Why didn't Taylor and Cael get a signed agreement prior? Oh because it just happened suddenly. I don't blame either for going to PSU.
VT reneged period but in the ADs slightest defense he really didn't think it was going to happen in one year. But the Ohio state job opening up changed the landscape. Tom had no idea Zalesky was going to be canned a year later other wise he wouldn't even have left. All parties did not know otherwise why would Borschal and Slaton just went to Iowa for the get go. They even said that they wanted to be Hawks but individually thought in order to be champs they needed Brands. They were already best buddies with M* heading to Iowa City. They went to Blacksburg based on verbal reassurance if something would happen.
I realize that's not normal, but an AD goes out of his way when he is trying to build a program out of nothing. Im sure Weaver was bitter that he made a handshake on something he didn't think would come to fruition let alone within a year.
Willie I get your said and don't disagree. I also don't like the whole grad transfer thing in football or basketball now. But the VT thing doesn't really apply best for your side. Why don't you bring up Taylor and ISU releasing him to follow Cael. IMO that's more of an example of what you want to talk about.
This. Read the book title "Four Days to Glory" on Borschel and Leclere's senior season and why they went to VT. They were recruited by Iowa but felt Zalesky was a bit cold on his visits and seemed disinterested in the whole recruiting thing while Tom really got to them. It talks about how they had always dreamed of being Hawkeyes but that they didn't have that much confidence in Zalesky. Great read for any wrestling fan btw.
Amazon product ASIN B001140WGQ
The fact that the AD even considered dropping the program altogether after Brands left just reeks of bitterness from where I stand and gives you a bit of what Weavers mindset was. Doesn't seem logical or rational does it?
Take my ball and go home attitude.
Good...then I guess you won't mind if Allar gives up a year at ISU instead of going to Minne...amiright?
Did you get your domestic partner to sign a letter saying he'd be faithful and not cheat on you? Or do you have one of them there open relationships?
Been saying read that book forever to most of the east coast Brands screwed VT crowd. But apparently we need to start a Pizza Hut book it campaign to get them to read anything. Combine that with Jay's long written post and its pretty clear. I guess unless you think they all made this up and lied only to get out of wrestling VT in a dual 13 yrs later they deemed Iowa couldn't win.
Why would Brands or them make this up? lets try that approach. What was their to gain and what was the end game?
Would Zalesky have gotten fired if Borschel, Slaton and LeClere all committed to Iowa from the start? Losing those 3 recruits, and Mitch Mueller from ICW looked really bad on Zalesky.
i'm trying to be clear but don't know that i can say it any more plainly - with an agreement in place - the Metcalf, Borchel et al - should have gotten their releases imo.
i don't blame Tom or the athletes for being p!ssed off under the circumstances. (i didn't know the details which the posters above have now proven).
but i still maintain (my opinion) that an athlete who is 'in the system' (on campus, taking classes, training) shouldn't just be given a release. they made a commitment. and the university provided them services and scholarship.
I 100% believe that any athlete that signs an LOI as a SR and then has second thoughts should be given their release, especially in the case of coaching changes - ex. David Taylor, Austin Gomez, Jake Allar
i can't recall the timeline of Matt Brown's training and mormon mission. did he ever train and take classes at ISU? if so, i wouldn't have given him a release.
Cyler is an odd situation in that he's related to the coach. if he was not Cael's brother, there's no way in hell i'd give a SR AA a release.
i don't blame Tom or the athletes for being p!ssed off under the circumstances. (i didn't know the details which the posters above have now proven).
but i still maintain (my opinion) that an athlete who is 'in the system' (on campus, taking classes, training) shouldn't just be given a release. they made a commitment. and the university provided them services and scholarship.
I 100% believe that any athlete that signs an LOI as a SR and then has second thoughts should be given their release, especially in the case of coaching changes - ex. David Taylor, Austin Gomez, Jake Allar
i can't recall the timeline of Matt Brown's training and mormon mission. did he ever train and take classes at ISU? if so, i wouldn't have given him a release.
Cyler is an odd situation in that he's related to the coach. if he was not Cael's brother, there's no way in hell i'd give a SR AA a release.
So you're saying Iowa messed up when they gave Mocco a release?
Once you sign a LOI, what's the difference whether they used the facilities or went to classes? You are using mental gymnastics on this one Willie to justify PSU's transfers. The school has committed scholarship money to you and moved on from other recruits that they could have had because they signed that kid. So you are either forgiving in this situation or you are not. For example, Spencer has not set foot on the campus but what if all of a sudden he had a change of heart and felt VT was his real home . We just wasted a lot of money on the kid that we could have used elsewhere and a whole year or two recruiting cycle is messed up. All of that said, do you really think Tom would go at Spencer if Spencer went to him and told him he had a serious change of heart? Sure, he would try to change his mind but in the end would give him the release.
http://qctimes.com/sports/wrestling...cle_9f14162b-193f-58a6-bfa9-4c76b4e7e4a7.html
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With regards to Flo Radio Live -FRL- I've listened to it and now I skip their show/podcast for better content elsewhere. Just my opinion.
So...............does anyone have any questions?
Yeah. Didn't Brands sign a contract with VTech? When he reneged on that contract the University did not owe him the full rewards of said contract. Similarly when athletes renege on a signed LOI the University does not owe them full rewards. Whatever happened to commitment?
Added some more stuff in my post but at least you are consistent. I wouldn't want somebody, especially a Mocco type, in my room moaping and bringing down the team dynamics because he didn't get his way. Sure, there should be roadblocks in place to make a kid really think about what they are doing but in the end, who wants guys that don't want to be in your room? I don't think taking a year from them is the answer.
D1 scholarships back then were strictly year-by-year. I guess the athletes decided not to renew. You're a little off on the legal stuff, but at least you heart's in the right place.
That's why we can all hope you never end up working with or in charge of young people.
Interesting read, Looks like he inherited a pretty decent team with the success he had in his first season. In the Article it says some of the inherited wrestlers quit the team and the Redshirts led to his rough second season. Anyone know why they quit after a successful 1st season, or did they mean they quit when he got there and he had success in his first season anyway?
Smalls, I don't agree with you on this one, but I appreciate you coming to the board to discuss your opinions.
The differece here is that I am willing to admit my bias in that I don't like you and I don't like flo and the reasons why. You simply spout contradictions and when shown you are wrong state you were unaware of those facts. However, then still go back to the same conclusions. The definition of a biased conclusion is one reached when the facts show otherwise. Sure you will be able to rationalize this as well.
This is where we respectfully part. One thing about Willie....when he gets called out, he shows up and debates. Most sports fans do not have the opportunity to do this en masse. So while you might not like Willie or Flo, which I have no problem with btw, Willie remains accessible and willing to take his lumps and back up what he says, crazy or not. For this, he gets my respect.
I feel like he's been pretty clear here. If there wasn't an agreement beforehand and the school spent money on them then he wouldn't grant the release. In this case, where there was an agreement, he has stated he would have granted the release.
i'm certainly aware that my position of not granting releases (not including the VT thing, which i said above, i wasn't clear of the details on) isn't one that people agree with. but that's the way i see it. and no, i don't take that position to 'shock jock'; i legitimately believe that stance is the right one.
anyway - i appreciate the (mostly) healthy discussion. thanks fellas.
oh - and another example. if i were ISU and Parker, Storr, and Colbray wanted to transfer right now i wouldn't grant them a release either.
anyway - i appreciate the (mostly) healthy discussion. thanks fellas.
oh - and another example. if i were ISU and Parker, Storr, and Colbray wanted to transfer right now i wouldn't grant them a release either.
Maybe its just me that has a problem with media today. That it's not necessary to know the facts before they release an editorial or voice an opinion. Is it just being lazy and not wanting to bother or is it that it might negatively effect their opinion or is it just a bias that can't be changed? At any rate hurting or questionng other peoples integrity without doing the research is wrong. But then one can always rationalize itin the form of a debate??
This already is the landscape of college athletics and has been for a long time. Outside of football and basketball, and I guess hockey, the vast majority of athletes who request a release are granted a release.
Why should athletes be held hostage when coaches and administrators can come and go as they please? Professors, too. Are students on academic scholarships prevented from transferring?
yeah - Luther. it's moving that way. and i don't think it's a good thing. do you? serious question.
another point there though, is that a vast, vast majority of that list is NOT DI-to-DI transferring. (other than the graduate transfer thing, which i don't see as a problem. i mean, you got your degree.)
and yet another point - most of what we're talking about in wrestling involves blue chippers. which most of the guys on that basketball list are not.
a complicated issue, for sure.
another point there though, is that a vast, vast majority of that list is NOT DI-to-DI transferring. (other than the graduate transfer thing, which i don't see as a problem. i mean, you got your degree.)
and yet another point - most of what we're talking about in wrestling involves blue chippers. which most of the guys on that basketball list are not.
a complicated issue, for sure.
What absolute nonsense. How many individual and team titles did they win? How much better were the facilities/coaching/atmosphere at their new school?
This was a no-brainer for all involved (minus VT), which is why they all did it.
i addressed that when CP said (on the show) that there was an agreement. which, of course, and as i've said repeatedly here, makes it a different story and changes my opinion on that specific case.
it should also be noted (because it doesn't sound like you actually listened to the show) that the positioned discussed was not JUST the VA-Iowa situation, but all transfer situations.
Ok I understand you now, and for the most part agree. I believe Brown went on a mission so he was as much free game as when say Montell Marion commited to UNI then went OTC and got to know Terry and followed him to Iowa.
I don't have an issue with any ISU releases to PSU other than Andrew Long's. We all saw it for what it was. Well everyone but the team that needed a 133 pounder.
I wonder why we haven't seen more grad transfers in college wrestling?
And Willy since you are reading this. Many of us have unplugged from cable. Can you guys get the Roku FLO app to provide more content like rewatching matches you will tweet out or even have the ability to replay a meet afterwards like the BTN can. I shoul dbe able to show a buddy Valencia's duck to pin on my TV app and not have to grab a laptop.
Im sure the powers to be are working on it but cmon man. its a bit bush league right now.
