So, all of sorensons $$
- Thread starter Hawkeye4Life78
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If college AAs tell us anything about how good the high school wrestlers are, then Iowa has not fallen as far as people think.
Obviously did not include PA, OH, NJ because those are no brainers imo.
All data from http://www.flowrestling.org/article/53013-ncaas-by-the-numbers#.WfnNjnmGOJD
Obviously did not include PA, OH, NJ because those are no brainers imo.
All data from http://www.flowrestling.org/article/53013-ncaas-by-the-numbers#.WfnNjnmGOJD
I think the state of Iowa had suffered from a lack of clubs outside metro areas. That has since turned the corner as more and more clubs have been established in rural communities in the past few years. Any kid is within a 30-60 min drive to 1-2 clubs nowadays.
We are seeing any uptick in Iowa that I think will be sustainable due to the clubs. Also as more and more kids are directed into playin 1-2 sports these days.
We are seeing any uptick in Iowa that I think will be sustainable due to the clubs. Also as more and more kids are directed into playin 1-2 sports these days.
Iowa high school wrestling has been hurt by ISU sucking. This is going to change big time.
BC Team Iowa places in the top 8 in freestyle and greco almost every year in both cadets and junior duals. We are regularly in the top 10 in team points at fargo. We place top 8 at disney duals pretty consistently.
Can you please explain your logic?
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I summarized Champion’s post. I especially like the part about Spencer ripping off an arm...
Definitely not an excuse. With top 10 states like IL and MN on our borders in addition to in state guys, we should be recruiting phenomenally.
Minnesota is an extremely difficult state to get the top talent from. UM almost always keeps their best at home. Nearly everyone in the state is a Gopher fan and trained to hate Iowa from an early age.
Illinois is a very good wrestling state, and Iowa does do pretty well recruiting there. Warner, Cassiopi in the past couple of years. Renteria may be the one that got away from that state recently given the need at 133, but we all know the background on that one.
Responding to some of the comments about Nelson Brands. I will tell you from first-hand experience that Tom and Terry improved so dramatically every year in the Iowa room--from getting hammered by Davis and Penrith in Year 1 to going to-to-toe with the top guys in the nation in Year 2 to winning titles in Years 3-5. Nelson is his own man, but he's got that rarefied, magical Brands blood that is half-human, half-god. I'm the wizened old geezer who witnessed the great hurricane and is smoking his pipe quietly saying, "I reckon these winds be blowing like they was back in '87."
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Iowa was winning fargo in both freestyle and greco about 10 years ago. Guys like McDonough, the Moores, Grant Gambrall, DSJ, Carew, all the WSR guys, Colon, Wolfensberger, etc.
Iowa high school wrestling is unquestionably down since then.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Just curious what's your data source? How many years back do you have data? I'm curious in taking a look at it.
The source was linked in the post. That is all the years that are available.
No it's not. You listed off two champs and 5/6 AA. I would expect the current group will produce similar numbers of AA, however I don't see a champion.
Not to mention the Nick Moore class was single handed the worst thing that ever happened to Iowa wrestling since the retirement of Dan Gable.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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I excluded some big names. How about guys like Andrew Long, Austin Blythe (likely a very high AA if not champ if he wrestled in college), Dylan Peters.
How did Iowa do as a team the last few years at Fargo or other national competitions? 10 years ago they were winning. You don't see any NCAA champs coming out of highschool in next few years, but you don't consider that a dropoff from years ago when Iowa was producing multiple?
Iowa high school wrestling is objectively down.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Also you act like Nick Moore's class was equivalent to any of the recent recruiting classes teams like PSU, or OSU have seen. I think Mike Evans was the only one ranked in the top 10? Unfortunately having a lot of guys ranked in top 20-40 means nothing if they are finishing in the top 12 but not making the podium. That's why getting a couple of top ranked guys at their weight is much more important than 4-5 guys ranked 10th.
All you’ve done is list a bunch of names. What makes the guys you listed better than Teske, Thomsen, Millage, Shapiro, Schriever, Reeves, and guys from last year like Thomsen, Coleman, and others?
I understand that it is easy to say Iowa wrestling is down right now, but it's not. We're the same as we've been. People have been ragging on about how down Iowa High School wrestling is now ever since Cael got to PSU and the wrestling world realized how deep Pennsylvania is compared to everyone else.
Minnesota doesn’t allow in state tuition to Iowa, but has it with South Dakota, Wisconsin & North Dakota, so cost to Iowa colleges are higher for recruiting purposes
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Where can I go to see team fargo places over the last 15 years?
You yourself said you don't see any NCAA champs coming out of high school right now. We had multiple champs and finalists with the high schoolers from a decade ago - Long, McDonough, DSJ, Gambrall(3rd), Colon, Gadson.
How is that not a drop-off if we get none in the next few years after Sorensen?
Obviously it remains to be seen how the guys currently in high-school will do. But they're not performing nationally as well as guys a decade ago, other than very few such as Schriever and Max Lyon.
How would how Minnesota handles in-state tuition affect an Iowa school recruiting a Minnesota kid? This would really only come in to play if we are both recruting the same Dakota or Wisconsin kid.
Minnesota & Iowa don’t offer in state tuition to each other’s students, but pretty sure Minnesota kids get in state tuition at SDSU, NDSU & Wisconsin and vice versa.
Minnesota kids pay out of state tuition to Iowa, Iowa State, UNI & vice versa.
So quite a bit more expensive for Iowa kids to go to Minnesota & vice versa.
Minnesota kids pay out of state tuition to Iowa, Iowa State, UNI & vice versa.
So quite a bit more expensive for Iowa kids to go to Minnesota & vice versa.
At the end of the day it is neither my intent or desire to convince you of the credibility of my source but it is unfortunate that you resort to ad hominem.
My source is from Fort Dodge and is close to the situation. There is no scenario in which this individual would misrepresent Teske's direct statements.
I have no doubt Teske also told parties affiliated with Iowa and the local press that he enjoyed the visit but he absolutely negatively contrasted the program with PSU following that visit. He absolutely indicated that he would get the best coaching at PSU.Teske had no reason to mislead this source nor for the source to misrepresent what he said. This was not done with the intention to disparage Iowa but rather to contrast the programs and ultimately justify his decision. There is no ulterior motive here and if you choose to believe it's fabricated then that's an opinion, and that's exactly what it is, your opinion.
I don't know every single detail from the visits nor do I pretend to but I can say with confidence that he thought the culture was better at PSU and the athletes appear to have more fun. He also believes the best coaching is available at PSU. That's really not that controversial especially in light of his decision.
My intention of sharing this was for the purpose of discussing the cultural and coaching style differences as perceived by a recruit. Apparently that caused some angst.
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Teske is going to say whatever he can to justify his choice. The above reads like it is straight out of the PSU handbook of being a wank in an interview. If the kid is not a 133 which I don't see at all then he was worth little to Iowa. I can't believe someone not even ranked in the top 30 has gotten this much talk.
My source is an Iowa Wrestler that spoke directly with Teske. The above portrayal is not accurate. This young man was told directly why he chose PSU and it was mostly because he felt that he and Lee would be in the same weight for most of his career. This is a fact. I also agree with the question regarding why are we still talking about this? What is the purpose? He made his decision and time will tell whether or not his exact fears come true regarding too many studs at a single weight at Iowa actually become a reality for him at PSU... for his sake I hope not, but as I've said, I don't believe this will end well... I wish we would all move on, but I simply couldn't let what was said pass, because I heard something very different from a very credible person.
I don't doubt the credibility of your source as Teske is a polite guy and it would be unlike him to critically assess the Iowa program to an Iowa wrestler. Have you considered that it's plausible that both sources could accurately reflect his comments and that he might convey a different experience to someone associated with the Iowa program than that to the FDSH program?
The same source told me about KD texting him after his PSU visit saying who from the "515" area code will be cheering for you when you beat Lee if you go to PSU? I have no reason to question the veracity of this source based on what was relayed by an Iowa wrestler you happen to know.
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Blah blah. When is this thread going to die?
Actually, no I didn't because of multiple conversations I had with several people that that were not at all in line with your "sources" recap. While it is just my opinion, based on my own conversations, I am simply calling bull and I don't believe your source. However, who really cares, so I am done with this conversation. The kid picked another school for his own reasons, but none of them, according to my information had anything to do with the PSU marketing BS that they tell about Iowa. It was $ and competition. We can simply agree to disagree and we will see how this all turns out. I like the young man and hope it works out for him...
I’m guessing he could have easily said both things. People tell different people what they want to hear all the time. It’s his job to pimp PSU now because that’s in his best interest. We see it all the time with kids gushing over the school they choose after committing. They never tell the truth about what their recruiting process was really like, because it becomes about pumping up the school you’re attending. Nothing to see here
Yep - I don't even know what this thread is about. Didn't we have a poster that used to summarize these threads - where's he?
Look at Fargo for the champions you listed: McD was a cadet champ and never placed in juniors, St. John was a junior runner up, Gadson never placed at Fargo. None of those guys were sure fire national champs coming out of high school. They all had similar careers to the guys who are currently in high school. You are looking at the past like these Iowa kids were Mark Hall or Spencer Lee type recruits, they weren't. They were all good recruits, same as Max Lyon, Schreiver, Teske, Thomsen, Wreidt, Gremmel, etc.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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McD did place as a junior.
I'm not saying the recruits then were like Hall or Lee. I'm saying that the Iowa high schoolers then were objectively better than the highschoolers now based on highschool performance and rankings.
It's really not even up for debate.
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https://iawrestle.com/2015/07/14/iowas-fargo-aas-2014-1995/
This is up to 2014. Looks pretty consistent. Some up and down years but not much of a different.
Could the IAwrestle guys update this list to current AA's through 2017? Thanks in advance.
This one is from 2016 (thru 2015 Fargo) https://iawrestle.com/2016/07/14/iowas-fargo-aas-2015-1995/
Now our excuse is that Iowa isn't a top 10 high school wrestling state...
There is no other excuse than either Brands sucked at evaluating talent, developing it, or had the wrong strategy of quantity over quality. IMO, it's the 3rd one and we are now in a rut because of it. We not only have to fight off misconceptions of personas of both wrestlers and coaches, but now we aren't even the "hotness" of the college wrestling world and are sliding back in that ranking each year.
Iowa is trying to climb out, but it's a battle now that we let sleeping giants like PSU, Ohio State and now potentially Michigan, get traction.
There is no other excuse than either Brands sucked at evaluating talent, developing it, or had the wrong strategy of quantity over quality. IMO, it's the 3rd one and we are now in a rut because of it. We not only have to fight off misconceptions of personas of both wrestlers and coaches, but now we aren't even the "hotness" of the college wrestling world and are sliding back in that ranking each year.
Iowa is trying to climb out, but it's a battle now that we let sleeping giants like PSU, Ohio State and now potentially Michigan, get traction.
