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Somehow I Don't Believe Richie Cunningham Brought a Rifle to School...

Please be more specific?

For one, how Americans now interpret the Second Amendment.

Stop it with this Australia comparison.

No AR was involved in the Perry IA situation.

You would be good with nobody but the military and law enforcement being allowed guns, wouldn't you?

No one has ever said that, but to try and ignore there is a problem we have with our attitudes towards guns means we can never seriously addressing gun violence when we can’t discuss a major part of the issue.
 
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It's not the guns nor is it stand your ground laws.

What's changed is people.

Kids didn't act this way in the 70's when rifle racks were abundant in school parking lots.

Students listened to teachers and stayed in their seats and if not they got smacked by the teacher and then smacked again when they got home.

Coddling at home and at school has added to the issue.
Is this the world you were raised in? Cuz you seemed to have turned out totally normal who doesn't fall for any conspiracy theories or misinformation at all.
 
For one, how Americans now interpret the Second Amendment.



No one has ever said that, but to try and ignore there is a problem we have with our attitudes towards guns means we can never seriously addressing gun violence when we can’t discuss a major part of the issue.
More laws?

How did that work on the war against drugs?
 
Are you saying ruger mini 14s weren’t readily available in the 90s and 80s? I had guns in my truck, superintendent knew and just said never let anyone see it. We weren’t psycho. It’s usually the kids that are not well liked, into weird shit like dungeons and dragons, their real lives suck and they get bullied. Kindness and mental health care would do wonders…..or bring back physical bullying, cuz **** these weird kids today can’t handle being told they aren’t a furry, they are odd for being non binary.
I hunted, had a gun in my car, and played DnD.


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I used to bring a shotgun in my car all the time. I would drive out of town and road hunt pheasants after school. I also did a how to speech on how to clean a gun. I got permission before hand and had to leave it in the car until I could get it for class and then it stayed in class until after school was over. No ammunition was allowed. It was 1992 when I did that.
Samesies...several kids had guns in their cars/trucks in the parking lot on any given day during hunting season. Mostly unloaded and cased, but one kid I remember had a gun rack in the rear window of his little pickup truck and there was often a very visible gun, or two, in the the rack, uncased.

This was an "in town" school in the early '80's, fwiw.
 
Is DeSantis correct on this? Maybe on a gun rack? The 1940's and 50's were before the NRA started the "guns everywhere for everyone" agenda.

“Back in like the forties and fifties, kids used to go to school and bring a rifle. I mean, yeah, I mean, like they would do that. And so, you know, it’s like you didn’t have this happening then when literally they’re bringing this to school."

Well, since Richie Cunningham was a fictional character and he only did what the writers said he did, probably not. But if Richie Cunningham was an actual person growing up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in the mid 1950s, there's a good chance he did.
 
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It's not the guns nor is it stand your ground laws.

What's changed is people.

Kids didn't act this way in the 70's when rifle racks were abundant in school parking lots.

Students listened to teachers and stayed in their seats and if not they got smacked by the teacher and then smacked again when they got home.

Coddling at home and at school has added to the issue.
Hammer meet nail.
 
I went to high school in the 70's, and gun racks with long guns were definitely in the trucks. Nobody thought much about it. This was shortly after desegregation in my area of Florida, and there was a lot of tension, but nobody was getting killed.
 
Lots of kids would road hunt for pheasants on the way home from school when I was a kid.

Guys had shotguns in the dorms when I was in college to go pheasant hunting on weekends.

Years ago in late 80’s when Bush was running for president and making a speech at a local community college a student happened to be walking across campus with a shotgun to give a speech for a communications class. Secret Service tackled the guy.
 
When I was in high school in the 60s, guns and knives were not allowed on school grounds. And that included in your car in the parking lot. If word leaked out that you had one in your car or locker, you were called to the principals office and he went with you to your locker/car. If there was one there, it was confiscated and your parents were called to come retrieve it. In my household, it was better that your family didn't receive phone calls from the school, other than for physical illness.
 
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I graduated in the mid 90s and there were plenty of guns in the parking lot each day.

70's, but similar memories,... We used to go hunting after school and some of the guys who didn't drive would actually store their guns in their lockers until it was time to head out..
 
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70's, but similar memories,... We used to go hunting after school and some of the guys who didn't drive would actually store their guns in their lockers until it was time to head out..

All these stories of guns in lockers…got to love the difference between rural and urban schools.

And yeah, overall just a sign of how things have changed.
 
All these stories of guns in lockers…got to love the difference between rural and urban schools.

And yeah, overall just a sign of how things have changed.
Well I do recall seeing pickup trucks in school parking lots with gun racks in the window, and some had guns and some did not.
I have always lived in suburbs of larger urban cities so that’s been my experience. As to urban schools in what would be described as “inner city” areas I would say that the kids there aren’t drivers of pickup trucks anyway. Maybe they had firearms in the back seat or trunk or but the bottom line is they weren’t shooting anyone either.
 
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Well I do recall seeing pickup trucks in school parking lots with gun racks in the window, and some had guns and some did not.
I have always lived in suburbs of larger urban cities so that’s been my experience. As to urban schools in what would be described as “inner city” areas I would say that the kids there aren’t drivers of pickup trucks anyway. Maybe they had firearms in the back seat or trunk or but the bottom line is they weren’t shooting anyone either.

Quite honestly I’m surprised to not see more stories of stolen guns from school lots.
 
70's, but similar memories,... We used to go hunting after school and some of the guys who didn't drive would actually store their guns in their lockers until it was time to head out..
I also remember friends several times having dead ________________ in the back of their trucks. Usually a coyote or two.
 
I also remember friends several times having dead ________________ in the back of their trucks. Usually a coyote or two.

I recall a buddy coming to high school one time with a buck in the back of his truck that he had picked up that morning prior to getting to school,... Principal let him out at noon to take it home and dress it..
 
Are you saying ruger mini 14s weren’t readily available in the 90s and 80s? I had guns in my truck, superintendent knew and just said never let anyone see it. We weren’t psycho. It’s usually the kids that are not well liked, into weird shit like dungeons and dragons, their real lives suck and they get bullied. Kindness and mental health care would do wonders…..or bring back physical bullying, cuz **** these weird kids today can’t handle being told they aren’t a furry, they are odd for being non binary.
The mini-14, which I'm sure you know, is also known as a "ranch rifle". It went on the market in 1973. The stock can be changed using a single thumb screw to make it look like an AR-15.
 
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Mass shootings, and especially school shootings, are the "I'm a disaffected, disturbed person who wants to make a statement" of today.

We've been through this with hijackings, and we've been through this with assassinations.

No matter what is proposed, they will continue until actual physical hardening of targets takes place. That's just how it works. There was an ungodly number of airplane hijackings before people would accept the idea of metal detectors in airports. Presidents and candidates used to think it was inconceivable to not mill with the general public. And then things change, and within a generation nobody remembers it being any other way.

While most of these perpetrators are not afraid to die, and even want to die, what they DON'T want to do is fail. None of them wants to end up rotting in jail for 25 years and never even making the news. While someone could theoretically still hijack an airplane or kill a president, the fact that success is likely in the <0.05% range means we don't live with it as a regular occurrence like our parents did.

There's only two options to make that happen:

1) Make the vast majority of gun ownership illegal and remove almost all guns from the population. While various gun control measures can be shown to reduce gun deaths in general, these types of mass rando shootings are not correlated with gun control measures. Because they don't ultimately make a mass shooting difficult enough, with a high enough possibility of failure.

Removing guns from private ownership is not only constitutionally untenable, and politically unpopular, but more importantly, logistically impossible. Even Democrats love guns in large numbers...a third of democrats and over 40% of independents have guns in their house. I guarantee you plenty of the most liberal people you know own hand guns and ARs. This country loves guns, across the spectrum. There is no institution in the country, including the U.S. military, with the resources and ability to remove all guns from the population.

2) Harden targets to make it functionally impossible to execute a mass shooting. This is merely unpalatable, but its largely possible. Everyone asks why, after two decades of school shootings, we haven't passed the correct gun control. But how does nobody ask how after two decades of school shootings, people can still walk into virtually any school with an arsenal? We could make school shootings literally unheard of in 24 months, with fairly basic security measures.

But people are as adamantly opposed to that too. Could you imagine, all the people that cry (rightfully) about school shootings, but then when someone says "well, we can make sure this never happens again, with metal detectors and clear bookbags, and closing campus during school hours"...they are like "My god, clear bags? Dakota can't leave campus for lunch as a senior? NOT worth it!"

Of course, we all know that's because school shootings are not a problem to solve, they are a stick to batter the other side with. Compared to all the problems in the world, its imminently and (relatively) easily solved. But people want to use them to push for a solution that can NEVER be achieved. I'm not even a gun guy, I'm pretty agnostic about guns and gun control, but I know that one thing could never be achieved, and the other could be.

Now, beyond schools, is hardening EVERY location where people amass possible? Well, it's certainly not easy. But given technology, it would be achievable within a generation. And you wouldn't have to acheive 100%, just enough to tip the balance toward "getting caught".

"Oh, there's no way I'm going to go through a metal detector to go to Burger King." People said the same thing about airplanes 60 years ago.

Imagine telling people 40 years ago that they would essentially no longer be able to pay for most things with cash. But we're down to pretty much not paying for anything in cash unless you can buy it in Walmart, and we'll see how much longer that lasts. People get used to shit.

This mass random shooting thing is totally solvable, if we want to. But we'd rather have the shootings than lose the argument.
 
2) Harden targets to make it functionally impossible to execute a mass shooting. This is merely unpalatable, but its largely possible. Everyone asks why, after two decades of school shootings, we haven't passed the correct gun control. But how does nobody ask how after two decades of school shootings, people can still walk into virtually any school with an arsenal? We could make school shootings literally unheard of in 24 months, with fairly basic security measures.

You grossly underestimate the logistics involved in hardening schools. From the sheer variety of building designs, to the size of them, some having multiple separate buildings - see parkland; while not impossible per se, I think this is a much harder task to accomplish than you think.

Take Uvalde for example - they’d done a number of the things you suggested. School was secured during the day, guard on-site, etc. shooter got in because one door got left unlocked (someone remind me, did they determine if that was an accident, lock was broke, etc?), but the shooter knew about it.

Schools built in last 20 years have too many points of entry, and ground-level classrooms have large windows that are often big enough to enter thru.

Most of the security measures you mentioned I don’t disagree with, but I’m not sure they’re always going to be plausible for a variety of reasons, some very real and some that are unfortunately political.
 
In the early 70's drove my old junky pickup to school with my 12ga and 20ga on the gun rack as did many others. Left it unlocked never had a problem. And my Ruger Bearcat .22 revolver in the glovebox.
 
I don't know about Richie Cunningham; however, my senior year I came to school with a gun in the gun rack once because I had been hunting over the weekend and forgotten. I honestly don't know if the administration knew or not, but most of my friends knew. I locked the ammo in the glove box and really didn't think much else about it. I have a feeling know with certainty if that were to happen today, I'd be in big trouble. I doubt even friends would have let that slide; admin would have been notified immediately and action would have been taken.

That wasn't the 50s either. It was 1992 in Tavares, FL.

/csb
 
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