Spencer

[sweatybetty]

You got this bit from askren. Who hasn’t wrestled collegiately in 15 years, and clearly doesn’t know what’s legal or illegal better than the refs paid to know. But I bet you’re a fan of how rby was defending against McGee (and desanto). Reminded me of glory in a couple matches throughout his career. Some guys will try to injure you if you get to their legs. Next time come back with something original, cupcake.

I'm not a defending fan. Been watching this arm bar for the past 5 years. I have been refereeing for the past 19 years. Check out the rule book next time you start spewing effluvia as if you know something. There is even a drawing showing how the forward pressure on the shoulder with an arm bar is forbidden. By the way, your arguments are also known as strawman arguments- diverting attention away from the issue. Not a fan of PSU, RBY or Glory. I actually admire Spencer Lee and his guts.

And I marginally despise Askren for the damage he has done to Wisconsin wrestling, so again you know nothing of me. He guides our best kids to Missouri and other places, you should be glad he does that (O'Toole, Keckeisen, Mocco recently, and now the Mirasola Twins, Scoles, Clark, Sinclair heading to other pastures). We hope to keep Hopke in state to go up against Keuter. So don't jump to any conclusions.

And running the arm bar up the shoulder has ALWAYS been at least potentially dangerous but is usually called illegal, and therefore penalized. These refs have cow-towed to pressure not to call it. But you can snap ligaments that aren't wired to stretch in that direction with that cranking.

Look, I know you are raw about the loss. For that, maybe my post is a bit ill-timed. Spencer has done wonders to bring excitement to Iowa City.

 

[T8KUDWN]

Not a chance, Home Slice.

I know a guy who likes to use the phrase, "Home Slice", he's pretty much a douche bag...

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Spencer reminds me of Bo Jackson.

As fans, it’s killer that we lost out on seeing Generational talent and great guy putting on a show like no other for a decade.

 

[Section25]

I'm not a defending fan. Been watching this arm bar for the past 5 years. I have been refereeing for the past 19 years. Check out the rule book next time you start spewing effluvia as if you know something. There is even a drawing showing how the forward pressure on the shoulder with an arm bar is forbidden. By the way, your arguments are also known as strawman arguments- diverting attention away from the issue. Not a fan of PSU, RBY or Glory. I actually admire Spencer Lee and his guts.

And I marginally despise Askren for the damage he has done to Wisconsin wrestling, so again you know nothing of me. He guides our best kids to Missouri and other places, you should be glad he does that (O'Toole, Keckeisen, Mocco recently, and now the Mirasola Twins, Scoles, Clark, Sinclair heading to other pastures). We hope to keep Hopke in state to go up against Keuter. So don't jump to any conclusions.

And running the arm bar up the shoulder has ALWAYS been at least potentially dangerous but is usually called illegal, and therefore penalized. These refs have cow-towed to pressure not to call it. But you can snap ligaments that aren't wired to stretch in that direction with that cranking.

Look, I know you are raw about the loss. For that, maybe my post is a bit ill-timed. Spencer has done wonders to bring excitement to Iowa City.

Have you ever reffed a Spencer Lee match? If you have, did you stop the action for an illegal hold? If you have not,what level of wrestling are you currently reffing? At what level is the largest tournament you have ever reffed and where?
Just some simple questions to help me sort out why you are qualified to claim Spencer has been using an illegal hold and you are the only referee that is not a female anatomy part not scared to stop the hold.
The NCAA is having to work really hard to secure qualified referees to work Division 1 wrestling as it has become not so sought after for work. Most referees dream of working major conference tournaments or NCAA tournaments at any level. In 19 years I would think you would more than qualify to referee high level meets. If you have, I am curious what conferences etc.
Enlighten us.

 

[artradley]

But you can snap ligaments that aren't wired to stretch in that direction with that cranking.

Again, it's amazing he has never injured a guy despite this dangerous and illegal move that he has used in every single match over the last ten or so years.

 

[wrestlecrazy]

Has there been any updated info on SL injury? Will he be wrestling in Vegas at the Open?

 

[Inthecircle]

I just hope he can pursue his next goal of Olympic Gold Medalist. He has had some sh*t luck. He is to wrestling what Roger Staubach is to football.

 

[sweatybetty]

Again, it's amazing he has never injured a guy despite this dangerous and illegal move that he has used in every single match over the last ten or so years.

That has nothing to do with it. He runs it super fast and the refs don't blow the whistle.

 

[sweatybetty]

Have you ever reffed a Spencer Lee match? If you have, did you stop the action for an illegal hold? If you have not,what level of wrestling are you currently reffing? At what level is the largest tournament you have ever reffed and where?
Just some simple questions to help me sort out why you are qualified to claim Spencer has been using an illegal hold and you are the only referee that is not a female anatomy part not scared to stop the hold.
The NCAA is having to work really hard to secure qualified referees to work Division 1 wrestling as it has become not so sought after for work. Most referees dream of working major conference tournaments or NCAA tournaments at any level. In 19 years I would think you would more than qualify to referee high level meets. If you have, I am curious what conferences etc.
Enlighten us.

Oh nice. Going after my credentials and at the same time bashing women.
I ref high school, but competed D-1 against your Hawks, Cyclones and Panthers several times a year for four years.

High school is where I like to ref. How bout you, Scooter? You ever put on the stripes? Bet not.

 

[Exo]

Oh nice. Going after my credentials and at the same time bashing women.
I ref high school, but competed D-1 against your Hawks, Cyclones and Panthers several times a year for four years.

High school is where I like to ref. How bout you, Scooter? You ever put on the stripes? Bet not.

Don't be a soy boy, victim. There's enough of that on the news.

 

[el dub]

No way does this happen.

Wtf are you talking about. Seriously?

 

[el dub]

Don't be a soy boy, victim. There's enough of that on the news.

Soy boy victim? Whats up, Red? Stoopid much? Who’s burning books and crying victim? Lol

 

[cheaptilt42]

Oh nice. Going after my credentials and at the same time bashing women.
I ref high school, but competed D-1 against your Hawks, Cyclones and Panthers several times a year for four years.

High school is where I like to ref. How bout you, Scooter? You ever put on the stripes? Bet not.

I also wrestled D1 for one of the teams you listed. I have also been a coach and ref for 32 years (HS and D2/D3/NAIA), but retired now. I would have never called PD on 99% of his bar arms....why? Because he used them for tilts most of the time. When he did go above the elbow and he tried to run it like a wing, it was called every time I saw that situation. Finally, Spencer Lee is done with folkstyle wrestling now and with that his bar arm series will basically come to rest. So instead of running your mouth about it, move on and leave it alone. If not, you will just continue to sound like a hater.

 

[rcamp67]

Oh nice. Going after my credentials and at the same time bashing women.
I ref high school, but competed D-1 against your Hawks, Cyclones and Panthers several times a year for four years.

High school is where I like to ref. How bout you, Scooter? You ever put on the stripes? Bet not.

The problem I have with your comments is that you are insisting that the hundreds of refs over the last 10+ years with a combined thousands of year’s experience are all wrong on the way they call it. You, one singular ref with 19 years experience at the high school level are right. EVERYONE else is wrong and you are right. Damn. Didn’t know my mother in law posted on here.

 

[Section25]

I also wrestled D1 for one of the teams you listed. I have also been a coach and ref for 32 years (HS and D2/D3/NAIA), but retired now. I would have never called PD on 99% of his bar arms....why? Because he used them for tilts most of the time. When he did go above the elbow and he tried to run it like a wing, it was called every time I saw that situation. Finally, Spencer Lee is done with folkstyle wrestling now and with that his bar arm series will basically come to rest. So instead of running your mouth about it, move on and leave it alone. If not, you will just continue to sound like a hater.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and helping to understand how you saw it and the examples. I value your experience and also appreciate your credentials and knowing why you wouldn't have called it. I fully agree Spencer was called for potentially dangerous when he ran it like a wing with the hand above the elbow.
I am not and have not reffed, but also appreciate that you did not call any of your fellow officials "pussys" for how their opinion may have differed from yours. I find most people that have coached, reffed, or competed to be at least a tad respectful of others in that arena.

 

[Chips28]

That has nothing to do with it. He runs it super fast and the refs don't blow the whistle.

You are literally too dumb to insult. Gtfoh

 

[cheaptilt42]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and helping to understand how you saw it and the examples. I value your experience and also appreciate your credentials and knowing why you wouldn't have called it. I fully agree Spencer was called for potentially dangerous when he ran it like a wing with the hand above the elbow.
I am not and have not reffed, but also appreciate that you did not call any of your fellow officials "pussys" for how their opinion may have differed from yours. I find most people that have coached, reffed, or competed to be at least a tad respectful of others in that arena.

Appreciate it Section 25! Enjoy corresponding on here with level headed people.

 

[sweatybetty]

When you manage to shuck your Gold and Black glasses, and look at the rule book, maybe you'll see the light. And all I said was that he would have lost double his matches ( what 4 x 2 ?) had they called it properly.

For all that, Spencer will do very well in Senior Level Freestyle, because they don't call penalties on that particular leverage. He is a man, and I do respect what he has accomplished and the way he competes.

And I shouldn't have called the college refs p*s*ies. You should know, however, that the college coaches are historically the ones who ask for/hire the refs, so there is a tremendous amount of pressure to not p*ss them off.

Fare well for today.

 

[Descat1]

Another opinion to offer... Trust me, the opposing coaches pointed out their concerns and yelled it throughout the matches. If it was illegal, it would have been called. In my opinion, it was called tighter against Lee than any other wrestler. Logan Steiber also used bars and was not called nearly as often. It is called less often in high school than it was against Lee over the past year. There were coaches that were worse than others, PSU and Michigan cried a river each time Lee took the mat. One last point, ironically, I got sat on a plane flight next to a current NCAA Official. He was actually an official for the event the Hawks went to in Florida a few years ago. He told me that Lee caused two discussions at their annual referee meeting: Due to other coaches whining and complaining his bar was a point of emphasis and they did not find it to be illegal as you describe. My point, if it was a point of emphasis, as requested by coaches, it would have been called more often than it was--if it were in fact illegal. He personally didn't think it was as illegal as it was that the other coaches couldn't figure how to stop it. Another point of emphasis was stalling. They showed his match with Courtney as another point of when stalling should have been called and wasn't. They wanted this type of wrestling to be called for stalling more frequently. It was a good conversation and contrary to the perspective offered that Lee's bars were illegal and should have been called more often. The officials were on "high" alert already.

 

[Aleric1]

When you manage to shuck your Gold and Black glasses, and look at the rule book, maybe you'll see the light. And all I said was that he would have lost double his matches ( what 4 x 2 ?) had they called it properly.

For all that, Spencer will do very well in Senior Level Freestyle, because they don't call penalties on that particular leverage. He is a man, and I do respect what he has accomplished and the way he competes.

And I shouldn't have called the college refs p*s*ies. You should know, however, that the college coaches are historically the ones who ask for/hire the refs, so there is a tremendous amount of pressure to not p*ss them off.

Fare well for today.

I think including the bit about college coaches hiring refs is a little bit disingenuous. If you were blatantly not calling dangerous positions for a single wrestler, don’t you think that would p*ss off all the opposing coaches more? Would you rather p*ss off one coach/school or all the others?

 

[Chips28]

Here’s an idea, maybe wrestle and not let him get the arm bar. Instead there is whining like babies. Psu whining makes little sense as they’ve had no one worth a damn at 125 in Spencer’s time to Iowa

 

[wrestlecrazy]

Sweatybetty we get your point, I disagree with you I fell the reffs stopped Lees bar arm way to early so we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[HawkeyeInKC]

If you paid close attention to his wrestling this season, it was evident that Spencer was unable to condition and train like he needed to in order to cut weight and build up endurance. His mission was to end every match in the 1st period because he knew he didn't have the lungs and would fade in the 3rd. There wasn't a pop or spring in his legs like he needed. Hell, just look at his attempt at a mat return against Ramos Friday night. He did not get the lift or explosion he needed and Ramos rolled through on him. A healthy Spencer plants Ramos back on the mat and would keep him down with forward pressure and wrist control.

What Lee accomplished with a failing lower half of his body is incredible. It breaks my heart and really crushed me watching it live. I couldn't believe what had just happened. I cannot imagine the anguish he is experiencing and I refuse to judge him and the decision to medically forfeit.

I will be sad in November watching someone else toe the line at 125 for the Hawks... He is an all timer. Thank you Spencer, now go get that Gold Medal.

How much weight did he cut?

 

[Inthecircle]

How much weight did he cut?

Not sure, however you could see it in his face. At least 10 pounds.

 

[globalhawk]

@RossWB

 

[MonkChowder]

Spencer reminds me of Bo Jackson.

As fans, it’s killer that we lost out on seeing Generational talent and great guy putting on a show like no other for a decade.

You mean "generational Iowa talent" right? What he did has been done by several, if not many, in the past decade. I can list them if you'd like. Awesome wrestler, but generational means once in a generation.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

You mean "generational Iowa talent" right? What he did has been done by several, if not many, in the past decade. I can list them if you'd like. Awesome wrestler, but generational means once in a generation.

He's the best college wrestler I've ever seen, dating back to 1973, Carl included. He's clearly a generational talent, period. He's the only wrestler I've seen who absolutely demolished the competition the way he did. I've never seen a wrestler whose matches became the subject of speculation about what could be wrong if his opponent happened to make it to the 2nd period. If the match went 7 minutes, it was a shocker. And he did all of this despite being plagued by what I'd describe as an unprecedented amount of injuries and/or illness throughout his career.

It's hilarious how PSU trolls are so determined to diminish Spencer's accomplishments. They booed him mercilessly after his loss to Austin in the PA state finals. They booed him mercilessly whenever he returned to PSU to dominate their 125-pounder. They cheered gleefully when he lost in the semis. And they're on the Iowa board trying to pretend he was "just another 3-timer". They're welcome to delude themselves however they like, but anyone with two eyes and an IQ realizes that Spencer is a generational talent. I just hope his body holds up so he can demolish the 57 kg weight class internationally. He most certainly has the talent to do so.

Ask wrestling fans in Russia if Spencer is a generational talent. They don't call him "Little Sadulaev" for nothing. They know a generational talent when they see one, and they think so highly of Spencer that they actually gave the guy a nickname. I challenge our PSU trolls to find another US wrestler who was so exceptional that the Russians compared him to the best P4P wrestler in the world.

PSU trolls can try to diminish Spencer all they want. They'll never admit it publicly but they know they're kidding themselves.

 

[NothingMeaningful]

He's the best college wrestler I've ever seen, dating back to 1973, Carl included. He's clearly a generational talent, period. He's the only wrestler I've seen who absolutely demolished the competition the way he did. I've never seen a wrestler whose matches became the subject of speculation about what could be wrong if his opponent happened to make it to the 2nd period. If the match went 7 minutes, it was a shocker. And he did all of this despite being plagued by significant injuries and/or illness throughout his career.

It's hilarious how PSU trolls are so determined to diminish Spencer's accomplishments. They booed him mercilessly after his loss to Austin in the PA state finals. They booed him mercilessly whenever he returned to PSU to dominate their 125-pounder. They cheered gleefully when he lost in the semis. And they're on the Iowa board trying to pretend he was "just another 3-timer". They're welcome to delude themselves however they like, but anyone with two eyes and an IQ realizes that Spencer is a generational talent. I just hope his body holds up so he can demolish the 57 kg weight class internationally. He most certainly has the talent to do so.

Ask wrestling fans in Russia if Spencer is a generational talent. They don't call him "Little Sadulaev" for nothing. They know a generational talent when they see one, and they think so highly of Spencer that they actually gave the guy a nickname. I challenge our PSU trolls to find another US wrestler who was so exceptional that the Russians compared him to the best P4P wrestler in the world.

PSU trolls can try to diminish Spencer all they want. They'll never admit it publicly but they know they're kidding themselves.

Generational talents don’t get pinned twice, nor lose so many times.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Generational talents don’t get pinned twice, nor lose so many times.

Says one Cornell troll. You're entitled to your opinion. I couldn't disagree more, and I'm sure many others feel the same.

 

[MonkChowder]

He's the best college wrestler I've ever seen, dating back to 1973, Carl included. He's clearly a generational talent, period. He's the only wrestler I've seen who absolutely demolished the competition the way he did. I've never seen a wrestler whose matches became the subject of speculation about what could be wrong if his opponent happened to make it to the 2nd period. If the match went 7 minutes, it was a shocker. And he did all of this despite being plagued by significant injuries and/or illness throughout his career.

It's hilarious how PSU trolls are so determined to diminish Spencer's accomplishments. They booed him mercilessly after his loss to Austin in the PA state finals. They booed him mercilessly whenever he returned to PSU to dominate their 125-pounder. They cheered gleefully when he lost in the semis. And they're on the Iowa board trying to pretend he was "just another 3-timer". They're welcome to delude themselves however they like, but anyone with two eyes and an IQ realizes that Spencer is a generational talent. I just hope his body holds up so he can demolish the 57 kg weight class internationally. He most certainly has the talent to do so.

Ask wrestling fans in Russia if Spencer is a generational talent. They don't call him "Little Sadulaev" for nothing. They know a generational talent when they see one, and they think so highly of Spencer that they actually gave the guy a nickname. I challenge our PSU trolls to find another US wrestler who was so exceptional that the Russians compared him to the best P4P wrestler in the world.

PSU trolls can try to diminish Spencer all they want. They'll never admit it publicly but they know they're kidding themselves.

I get it. We all think our legends were the best. Aside from the Russian nickname anecdote, your biased eye test is the only evidence of what you're saying. You watched all of his matches and were in awe of what he did. I get it. We trolls thought the EXACT same thing watching Nickal, Nolf, Retherford, Taylor, Ruth absolutely dominate for four years. To say that Spencer was different from any of those guys is silly. It's homerism. And we all suffer from it. But to say a guy who isn't even in Iowa's top ten for record and winning percentage was generational and better than other 3-timers....come on.

"Just another 3-timer" is downplaying what being a 3-timer actually is. But unfortunately, that's what he is. He won three. He lost more matches than most other 3-timers. And got decked twice. He was awesome.........just like all the other 3-timers. Maybe they're all generational.

Here's hoping Little Sadulaev can do it at the senior level where it counts.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

You mean "generational Iowa talent" right? What he did has been done by several, if not many, in the past decade. I can list them if you'd like. Awesome wrestler, but generational means once in a generation.

This kid was likely a 4x at 125 if he stays healthy.

As far as prodigal talent goes, very few were as outright dominant as him. Moreover, he has been the #1 p4p wrestler since basically the 8th grade.

I stand by what I said. That’s not to take away from Gable Steveson, David Taylor, and others. But Spencer when healthy was as good as I think most of us have seen.

 

[Random4598375]

I get it. We all think our legends were the best. Aside from the Russian nickname anecdote, your biased eye test is the only evidence of what you're saying. You watched all of his matches and were in awe of what he did. I get it. We trolls thought the EXACT same thing watching Nickal, Nolf, Retherford, Taylor, Ruth absolutely dominate for four years. To say that Spencer was different from any of those guys is silly. It's homerism. And we all suffer from it. But to say a guy who isn't even in Iowa's top ten for record and winning percentage was generational and better than other 3-timers....come on.

"Just another 3-timer" is downplaying what being a 3-timer actually is. But unfortunately, that's what he is. He won three. He lost more matches than most other 3-timers. And got decked twice. He was awesome.........just like all the other 3-timers. Maybe they're all generational.

Here's hoping Little Sadulaev can do it at the senior level where it counts.

Yeah, Retherford beat a 4-time champ then placed 5th as an 18 year old true freshmen then took a RS year and came back to be a 3 time undefeated Hodge-winning national champ. His accomplishments well-surpass Spencer's by every metric (except Russian nicknames, I guess...). Spencer was one of the greats of this generation. One of them.

The unfortunate thing about Spencer is that his legacy was most likely set back by Covid as much as anything else. He was an overwhelming favorite in 2020. If that championship goes on and he wins, then the next year, the "injuries are for wusses" title without any ACLs would have been his 4th, not his 3rd, and winning it with both knees injured would have made him an absolute legend (and given him 3 full years to recover before the 2024 Olys) and put him in the wrestling pantheon with Smith, Cael, Stieber, and Dake. As it stands, he's in the (still elite) next step below with a bunch of other 3-timers, a couple of whom pretty clearly surpass him.

 

[bnicolls]

Generational talents don’t get pinned twice, nor lose so many times.

Don't be a jerk.

Spencer couldn't train properly and it showed up in his level of fitness from his first match back to Nats.

 

[NothingMeaningful]

Don't be a jerk.

Spencer couldn't train properly and it showed up in his level of fitness from his first match back to Nats.

Is “generational talent” defined by what was accomplished or by what could have been?

 

[bnicolls]

Ed and Lou Banach

Chris Campbell, Randy Lewis.

How many times did Campbell get taken down his last two years?

 

[MilleGinja]

Is “generational talent” defined by what was accomplished or by what could have been?

I have never seen such an appropriate username.

Because you bring nothing meaningful to the conversation.

 

[bnicolls]

Is “generational talent” defined by what was accomplished or by what could have been?

3 Nats and a one loss final year is pretty damn good. Add in all the points scored. Can someone add up points scored for the team in those 3 wins vs the most by anyone else?

 

[Chips28]

You mean "generational Iowa talent" right? What he did has been done by several, if not many, in the past decade. I can list them if you'd like. Awesome wrestler, but generational means once in a generation.

Yes he meant generational, as once in a generation. There has been no others wrestlers like Spencer in the last decade or longer

 

[Chips28]

Generational talents don’t get pinned twice, nor lose so many times.

Respected individuals don’t ignore child abuse for decades

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I get it. We all think our legends were the best. Aside from the Russian nickname anecdote, your biased eye test is the only evidence of what you're saying. You watched all of his matches and were in awe of what he did. I get it. We trolls thought the EXACT same thing watching Nickal, Nolf, Retherford, Taylor, Ruth absolutely dominate for four years. To say that Spencer was different from any of those guys is silly. It's homerism. And we all suffer from it. But to say a guy who isn't even in Iowa's top ten for record and winning percentage was generational and better than other 3-timers....come on.

"Just another 3-timer" is downplaying what being a 3-timer actually is. But unfortunately, that's what he is. He won three. He lost more matches than most other 3-timers. And got decked twice. He was awesome.........just like all the other 3-timers. Maybe they're all generational.

Here's hoping Little Sadulaev can do it at the senior level where it counts.

You're every bit as biased as I am. You'll never change my opinion. I've seen them all, and IMO, Spencer is the best I've ever seen. Think whatever you want, champ.