Hmmm, I wonder why he doesn’t start both of his sons if that’s his goal?
Start Sandfort
- Thread starter drh1150
- Start date
While many coaches do it, Mike Krzyzewski agrees with you.Some of us have recommended what the data is now showing, playing Sandfort more minutes, and everyone else less,see points #4 and #5
- Play Sandfort more.
- Rescind 2 foul jail
Adjustments: More PT: Mulvey, Standfort, Dix. Less PT: Ulis, Perk, Bowen
Midseason adjustment time to improve defense, rim protection, 3 point shooting 1. always have 2 of these 3 on the floor. Kris, Rebraca, Mulvey. IOWA can’t go small and agin we saw Kris pick up his 2nd 1st half foul while playing post D aginst the Center, while Rebraca was out of game. Kris was...iowa.forums.rivals.com
what the Leistikow article does not point out are the games where Fran intentionally restricts Sandforts minutes while banishing him to 2 fouls jail with no hope of parole.
Intentionally limiting the minutes of a player who has never fouled out is an indefensible coaching blunder
Why would you bench a player who only averages 20 minutes a game? And who has NEVER fouled out? And only comitted as much as 4 fouls due to late intentional fouling.
Sandfort had NEVER fouled out, only plays 20m a game, Why bench him?
when Sandfort plays > 20m , IOWA 14-5
when Sandfort plays <20m, IOWA is 5-8
Fran intentionally benching him, and intentionally limiting his minutes to < 20m in my view is indefensible
my point is Fran should be doing everything possible to play Sandfort more minutes, not less.
@perryhawk, please defend the arguement on why Fran Benches him?
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Not only does Fran sit him with two fouls midway through the second half, his regular rotation doesn’t have him coming back in until about the 12:00 mark in the second half. Play the man, let your shooter shoot. He didn’t even attempt a 3 vs OSU which should be a criminal offense.
100% my point. why sit him when you don’t intend to play him?
iowa loses last 2 games of season by 4 points each to bottom feeders NE and tOSU.
Fran intentionally restricts Sandforts minutes to < 20m / game, and we see IOWA has losing record when this occurs,
its incomprehensible to me why Frans does this, when the data clearly shows to Do so is a coaching blunder.
@perryhawk and others are Hyper critical to anyone that criticizes this strategy, but cant defend the argument as it’s obvious,
again, to win:
- Play Sandfort more
- rescind strict adherence to 2 foul jail
- Ulis/CMac split PG
- play Dix, Ogundele more
- Pmac less
Very good....I will provide my understanding of why this happens (note that I am not saying that I agree or disagree with Fran on this).
Coaches that have highly successful careers like Fran and like Kirk have had that success (I believe) in good part because of the philosophy(s) that they have learned and subscribe to. They subscribe to those philosophies because they have seen them be successful over a long period of time.
So, as a fan, we might see this as a "Payton Sandford" issue while a coach see's this as a culture issue.
From what I have heard Fran say and what I have seen him stress by how the team plays, he has a few pretty easily identifiable aspects of his philosophy. Here are some of the basics:
1) Don't turn the ball over!
2) Offense will be free flowing.
3) Players will be indoctrinated in confidence to shoot what they feel are good shots.
4) Play defense without fouling.
Obviously this discussion relates to point #4 that I just listed. Remember this is a TEAM & PROGRAM foundational tenet.
My guess (since I can't attend practice) is that they work on playing defense and moving your feet and not fouling. (I know-juveniles on this board will make fun of Iowa/Fran/defense because it's easier and more emotionally satisfying to slam their frustrations on the coach).
The reason (my guess) as to why Fran adopts this approach is because it is a key to winning basketball. Note that Iowa typically shoots more free throws, than their opponents take!
So, understanding that philosophy and the reasons behind it (doesn't matter if you agree with it or not) how do you institutionalize that philosophy into practice with the ENTIRE TEAM? How do you get the team to play that way consistently? The obvious answer is by having the two foul rule, consistently enforcing it, and therefore having the whole team know that, without a doubt, it doesn't matter what player you are or what the game situation is, you will sit with two fouls in the first half....clear as can be...no doubts by ANY of the players.
If the coach selectively enforces that rule (sit with two fouls in the first half) then the message to other team members is diluted....oh, I sit with 2 fouls but the other guy doesn't! Or selectively enforce that rule based on time and situation....and again it dilutes the message.
Fran and Iowa win games when they don't turn the ball over as much as the other team, they shoot more free throws than the other team, and they hit a good percentage of their own field goal attempts. See #s 1-4 above.
The coach is still building the program...some people call it their "identity" that he is establishing...long term. Not just in certain games or just one season....but that is what we do as a program, we play defense without fouling as much as we can.
Now, I would hope that in a one and done situation (NCAA tournament) there would be some leeway and I would guess that Fran would violate that rule if he thought it necessary to advance to the next round.
Let me also be clear....I really wish we played better defense. It could certainly be the difference in today's game.....but the coaches decision on this is NOT indefensible.
Sandfort is to Fran what Charlie Jones and Alex Padilla were to Ferentz. A non-holder of the seniority union card. And both would rather lose to Nebraska than break up the union.
Not to beat a dead horse.....but:
Why would you bench a player who only averages 20 minutes a game? And who has NEVER fouled out? And only comitted as much as 4 fouls due to late intentional fouling.
Do you think that one of the reasons Payton has never fouled out of a game is because Fran tries to manage fouls? I would say that it clearly is....I think Fran recognizes what a weapon Payton is and wants to make sure that he is available when needed. As fans we might feel he's needed at every second the game is being played....but the coach see's matchups, knows how the player has practiced, knows how the game is working...and last but not least, he see's the big picture. What's the big picture?
Payton is a key cog for the future of this teams next couple of years....he wants Payton to be able to play without being in foul trouble....trying to get him trained on that now so it is not a problem in the future.
Why would you bench a player who only averages 20 minutes a game? And who has NEVER fouled out? And only comitted as much as 4 fouls due to late intentional fouling.
Do you think that one of the reasons Payton has never fouled out of a game is because Fran tries to manage fouls? I would say that it clearly is....I think Fran recognizes what a weapon Payton is and wants to make sure that he is available when needed. As fans we might feel he's needed at every second the game is being played....but the coach see's matchups, knows how the player has practiced, knows how the game is working...and last but not least, he see's the big picture. What's the big picture?
Payton is a key cog for the future of this teams next couple of years....he wants Payton to be able to play without being in foul trouble....trying to get him trained on that now so it is not a problem in the future.
I'm sorry, I am trying to be diplomatic in this response....but if you watch these coaches...if you understand anything about how competitive they are to have success at this level.....there is just no logic whatsoever to that statement. They NEVER want to lose....they want to win every game and they want to do it the right way.
That doesn't mean they're perfect, that doesn't mean they can't be criticized or disagreed with....but "would rather lose to Nebraska than break up the union...is just complete---I'm frustrated and don't understand why these things happen so I'm going to trash the coach...there, now I feel a little better.
@perryhawk thank you for the thoughtful reply, I would look forward to the opportunity to discuss the in detail over a brew while watching the tournament as I don’t see any irreconcilable differences between rationale IOWA fans
more later, but a well thought thru reply. Thanks,
2 foul anywhere is dumb, you have to know your personnel and game/time scenarios. Especially for a guy like Peyton who has never fouled out as indicated above. The handling of Murrays with 2 fouls has definitely lost us games IMO.
I wouldn’t say it’s dumb, but it shouldnt be a firm rule. Not playing a sub because of it is stupid. Not playing a star for long stretches is stupid. Lute Olsen would use it generally I think, but made an exception for Ronnie Lester because he was too valuable to sit for long.
Well, Ronnie has that best, or maybe now second best, player in my lifetime thing that might cause a coach to deviate from a practice that applies to players not in the conversation for the best player in more than 60 years.
I do not necessarily like that practice but I'm not a millionaire Big Ten coach. Filip is really the only guy on this team that really needs to be on the floor, simply a matter of size and strength. But he's physical and gets some really shitty calls. Kris is the only other guy that is essential, but he also tends to pick up fouls when he's generally not playing well. Much rather have both guys in the last five minutes of the game than the last ten minutes of the first half. Everyone else has a comparable reserve and it doesn't make a significant difference.
I do not necessarily like that practice but I'm not a millionaire Big Ten coach. Filip is really the only guy on this team that really needs to be on the floor, simply a matter of size and strength. But he's physical and gets some really shitty calls. Kris is the only other guy that is essential, but he also tends to pick up fouls when he's generally not playing well. Much rather have both guys in the last five minutes of the game than the last ten minutes of the first half. Everyone else has a comparable reserve and it doesn't make a significant difference.
I don't always agree with Fran's rotations, but to the people pointing out Iowa record when Payton plays more minutes, are they winning because he is simply playing more minutes? Or are they winning because in those games he is playing better, therefore getting more minutes. I'd tend to think in quite a few of the games he played less than 20, he got off to bad start and missed his shots so didn't warrant as much playing time, think the first 3 big ten games he was 0-19, they lost all 3, probably didn't play many minutes there because he was struggling on those days.
Fran followed his standard protocol and Iowa gets blown out in another 1st round tournament game,
Sandfort needed to play more, tonight 24 minutes scoring 21 points
what if he’d played 35, does Iowa win?
pmac needs Les time, tonight with an empty 23 minutes 4 points 2 rebounds
Dix and his 40% 3pt % sees no time
iowa gives up 56 FG% in 2nd half, no defense, no paint D, could have used ogundele for 20m and not Pmac
same old tired script from Fran
PMac had essentially the same minutes.... Felt like he hardly played. Really EMPTY minutes, unless you like watching Iowa players getting blown by on Defense
