Lots of talk about Sam in this situation and yet silence about the shooter. No one learns any lessons when they refuse to take responsibility for their actions. A cover-up benefits no one.
Should they write some letters or something?
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Lots of talk about Sam in this situation and yet silence about the shooter. No one learns any lessons when they refuse to take responsibility for their actions. A cover-up benefits no one.
Brands should let Sam and his Attourney deal with the truth and his statements since it’s a legal matter. Then follow university policy. Hopefully it was a silly mishap that ends up in minor slaps on the wrist. HopefullySo, putting on your "coaching hat":
(1) If you are Brands, how hard do you push Stoll for an admission of the truth on this matter? In real life, I'm thinking Brands would have a far better shot at cracking Stoll than would the police department.
(2) Hypothetically speaking, let's say the "friend" is a teammate, and you have heard rumblings within the team about it. How hard do you, as coach, push to bring his identity to the light (beyond just questioning Stoll, that is)? I imagine the University would pressure Brands to investigate internally and report back. What would you do in this situation? Take the JRob approach, or try to get it all out there for sake of taking the medicine and moving forward ASAP?
(3) Alternatively, if the unnamed friend is a teammate and identifies himself to Brands voluntarily, what do you believe he will or should do as coach? (A) Say "thank you very much" and discipline internally (i.e., JRob); (B) pass the info on to the University administrators (who presumably want it) and let them take it from there; or (C) pass the info on to administrators and discipline internally?
(4) Hypothetically, neither Stoll, the shooter (who is suspected to be a teammate), nor anyone else who witnessed the incident says a peep. ICPD -- in response to public and political pressure -- decides to keep the investigation open and hounds Stoll and any suspected teammates. It becomes a distraction for the team come October/November, with no end in sight. Stoll won't crack, and the teammate still doesn't step up. Rumors swirl, and divides develop within the team. As coach, do you (A) carry on as-is and hope for the best, or (B) send Stoll on a Permanent Stroll and regain control of your team?
I'm not trolling here -- just curious about how different folks would handle it. I'll admit #4 is a very unlikely scenario, but I find such a dilemma intriguing. The distinction between #2 and #3 is whether you have to dig for the truth (#2) or it comes voluntarily (#3), which could alter how/whether you choose to go to bat for your wrestler.
In a nutshell, the challenge for a coach is to balance personal ethics/values, professional obligations, and a competitive strategy for both near-term and long-term wrestling program success. What would you do? And keep in mind the current sensitivity to "gun issues" in our society and how that may influence certain pressures.
Nicely played, Papa!Oh yeah, he did get shot too.
I’ve learned a shit ton of life lessons from all the “fountains of knowledge” flowing through these Stoll threads.... what I haven’t learned is what actually happened that night and probably never will and maybe it’s none of my business...if the police decide to just leave it with charging Sam for a false statement and he pleads the 5th and thats it....and he is physically able to compete his senior year ...thats the best scenario I can see
My concern is the public discourse similar to the discussions here is going to force the issue for the university and not allow this to die and move on
I’ve learned a shit ton of life lessons from all the “fountains of knowledge” flowing through these Stoll threads.... what I haven’t learned is what actually happened that night and probably never will and maybe it’s none of my business...if the police decide to just leave it with charging Sam for a false statement and he pleads the 5th and thats it....and he is physically able to compete his senior year ...thats the best scenario I can see
My concern is the public discourse similar to the discussions here is going to force the issue for the university and not allow this to die and move on
He can’t plead the 5th to protect someone else. He goes to jail for that. The 5th lets you not incriminate yourself but a failure to incriminate others is contempt of court (assuming a subpoena).
I’ve learned a shit ton of life lessons from all the “fountains of knowledge” flowing through these Stoll threads.... what I haven’t learned is what actually happened that night and probably never will and maybe it’s none of my business...if the police decide to just leave it with charging Sam for a false statement and he pleads the 5th and thats it....and he is physically able to compete his senior year ...thats the best scenario I can see
My concern is the public discourse similar to the discussions here is going to force the issue for the university and not allow this to die and move on
He can’t plead the 5th to protect someone else. He goes to jail for that. The 5th lets you not incriminate yourself but a failure to incriminate others is contempt of court (assuming a
Oh.....learned something else about legal matters....like I say my hope would be this all just dies on the vine and everyone moves on... the article did say they didn’t expect any more charged didn’t it? Again my concern is all the public discourse and scuttle butt is going to force someones hand...hopefully not.... really it sounds like a dumb accident and everyone learned a lesson.... move on
You never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, talk to the police when questioned...about anything...ever. Especially when completely innocent.
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Just curious, do you live in a high crime area? I only ask because your “wisdom” is shared by a very large segment of the population in those areas. Seems to be working out great for them.
Well it fairly clear Sam is not guilty of the false report crime charged. He "reported" nothing, he just answered questions. As I posted before, the Iowa Supreme Court has construed this false report statute to require an "affirmative" action such as phoning the police, flagging them down, or calling 911. Merely answering questions and lying is not a crime unless your statements are incorporated by police into a citation - which didn't happen here.
Here is the exact charging language from the criminal complain filed against Stoll on 6/29/2018:
Sam "reported" nothing. The same criminal statute deals with "providing" false information, but as already stated, that subsection requires that the information be included in a citation. For example, if police investigated an auto accident and one of the drivers claim the other ran a red light and a citation was issued to that driver, that's a crime.On the above date and time, officers spoke with the defendant after he was admitted into the emergency room for a gunshot wound. At first, the defendant reported to officers that he had shot himself, while sitting inside his garage at his home. This led officers to the defendant's home, to ensure that nobody else was injured. Once officers determined that the defendant was not shot at his home, the defendant retracted his first statement and told officers that he was shot while playing a prank on a friend, while at the friend's home. This led officers to multiple other locations, to investigate this incident further. During a follow up interview with the defendant, he admitted that he had lied twice to law enforcement. These lies included the specific location where he received the gunshot wound and the circumstances leading up to receiving the gunshot wound. The defendant said that he lied, because he did not want to get a friend in trouble.
Sam should not under any circumstances plead guilty. These charges need to be dismissed and Sam needs to tell the true story going forward.
But what if the shooter is a famous starter on your team? Don't TNT have the right to cover it up for the good of the upcoming season?We preach at Wrestling for Life that self-responsibility is one of the lessons the sport teaches. Take responsibility, Sam - and the other party involved.
But what if the shooter is a famous starter on your team? Don't TNT have the right to cover it up for the good of the upcoming season?
Doesn't change what I said.....I don't like or trust cops. Sue me. I'm not the only one. Guess this comes as quite a surprise to some of you.....
Anyone who’s ever seen even one episode of dateline should also know this.Just curious, do you live in a high crime area? I only ask because your “wisdom” is shared by a very large segment of the population in those areas. Seems to be working out great for them.
Don't they call this Gopher logic?But what if the shooter is a famous starter on your team? Don't TNT have the right to cover it up for the good of the upcoming season?
Yea not sure if that’s promising news or not for those involved....remember the way the university handled Marcus Coker? Ferentz wasn’t very happy with that ending ...either were fans and teammates....I’ve been kind of of the mindset of this has been sensationalized by all the rumors and speculations by well .... people like us that would like to know what happened.... and that all the conjecture coming out of 500 posts on the subject was a waste of time and needless hand wringing....that it would blow over and everyone would move on .....your comment that it out of the coaches hands and in the University’s is probably spot on.... who knows wtf they’ll doBut what if the shooter is a famous starter on your team? Don't TNT have the right to cover it up for the good of the upcoming season?
“Famous starter?” Quit trying to make Spencer shooting Sam happen...haha.
The shooting was reported by the hospital a few hours after it happened. The cops have done their investigation and charged Sam with two misdemeanors. Now it’s been passed on to the university who will do their investigation IAW Tom’s statement. In these situations where criminal or civil laws may have been broken, the ball is completely taken out of the staff’s hands...like what should have initially happened up in Gopherland.
Yea not sure if that’s promising news or not for those involved....remember the way the university handled Marcus Coker? Ferentz wasn’t very happy with that ending ...either were fans and teammates....I’ve been kind of of the mindset of this has been sensationalized by all the rumors and speculations by well .... people like us that would like to know what happened.... and that all the conjecture coming out of 500 posts on the subject was a waste of time and needless hand wringing....that it would blow over and everyone would move on .....your comment that it out of the coaches hands and in the University’s is probably spot on.... who knows wtf they’ll do
But he can take advantage of the laws allowing same sex marriage while they are still legal... new member of SCOTUS coming. Can't force him to testify against his spouse and he will get better insurance rates and tax benefits.He can’t plead the 5th to protect someone else. He goes to jail for that. The 5th lets you not incriminate yourself but a failure to incriminate others is contempt of court (assuming a subpoena).
Doesn't change what I said.....
He’s most likely on his parents policy. Sam would be able to stay on his parents insurance, providing they approve. It’s most likely covered unless there a felony chargesThere is another angle here that I don't think anyone has mentioned. Who is going to pay for the medical treatment for sam? His insurance company is likely going to deny coverage and want to put those charges on the shooter, or his parents, assuming the shooter is responsible. They are funny that way. It would probably go to the renters insurance policy, or even home owners policy, for where it happened.
Otherwise, Sam may be paying the bill himself here, as I don't think that the insurance company will tolerate the refusal to name the shooter.
He’s most likely on his parents policy. Sam would be able to stay on his parents insurance, providing they approve. It’s most likely covered unless there a felony charges
You never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, talk to the police when questioned...about anything...ever. Especially when completely innocent.
.
Just curious, do you live in a high crime area? I only ask because your “wisdom” is shared by a very large segment of the population in those areas. Seems to be working out great for them.
Not just Spencer. He and Kemerer were fighting over the gun when it went off in my scenario.
Just curious, do you live in a high crime area? I only ask because your “wisdom” is shared by a very large segment of the population in those areas. Seems to be working out great for them.
Yea not sure if that’s promising news or not for those involved....remember the way the university handled Marcus Coker? Ferentz wasn’t very happy with that ending ...either were fans and teammates....I’ve been kind of of the mindset of this has been sensationalized by all the rumors and speculations by well .... people like us that would like to know what happened.... and that all the conjecture coming out of 500 posts on the subject was a waste of time and needless hand wringing....that it would blow over and everyone would move on .....your comment that it out of the coaches hands and in the University’s is probably spot on.... who knows wtf they’ll do
This is a great point but note there is new leadership at the helm of the U of I now, one that seems to apply a little more common sense in certain situations.
And how is someone going to know/prove Sam’s true intent as Sam pleads the 5th (hypothetically)?He can’t plead the 5th to protect someone else. He goes to jail for that. The 5th lets you not incriminate yourself but a failure to incriminate others is contempt of court (assuming a subpoena).
or, you could tell the truth-and he would still be in a better situation. I applaud his not wanting to get a friend in trouble, but if he would have said:This will serve a good life lesson for all of the young men on the team as well as the members of this board:
You never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, talk to the police when questioned...about anything...ever. Especially when completely innocent.
If he had refused to answer any questions he’d be in a much better situation right now.
We as fans need to load up his commissary.But the chow tho...
Or TNT would now be forced to disciple JOE BLOW(S) since the name(S) is/are now public.