Yeah, I'm sure the counties will stubbornly refuse to raise salaries until the last teacher leaves the building.
Get freaking real, please.
Teacher's Unions: WTF? Who can justify them?
- Thread starter Herkmeister
- Start date
Yeah, I'm sure the counties will stubbornly refuse to raise salaries until the last teacher leaves the building.
Get freaking real, please.
Besides the fact that you just contradicted yourself in your own post, the implication you made was clear.
The state of Wisconsin took that ability out of the county's hands. Their ultimate goal is to have non-college educated people making 35k a year to teach. No benefits for experience or training. That is the future your side wants to do for education and if you think that's not going to keep people from entering the field then I'll have whatever it is your smoking.
In terms of "outperforming"... I was alluding to the fact that a private school can raise salaries more efficiently than a school board ever could. For one, the president of the school can probably do it on his own. He doesn't have to convince a board that it's the right thing to do and have a public meeting and then vote on it. Secondly, a private school isn't dependent upon funding from the taxpayers, so it's easier to budget. Finally, a private school can raise tuition if needed to raise salaries. Government would have to raise taxes.
LOL! That's their goal huh?
Again, if NO ONE WANTED TO DO IT, they'd have to raise salaries. But that's not what's happening.
In any case, you don't need a degree in education to teach young children how to do addition and subtraction. A sixth grader could do that.
That's not all students. Show me the private school that takes all the students with absent parents and isn't allowed to expel them for behavior issues who beats the public schools on test results. Its not so easy, good luck.
Also LOL at your link: Tuition: $119,720/year
This post right here is exactly why people like you should not be allowed to even comment on educational policy. You think teaching is just about telling kids how to add and subtract. You wouldn't last a month in a classroom, especially an elementary classroom.
And, well, no one wants to do it and they aren't raising salaries.
Just one of hundreds of cases like this. Do some research and see what the affect of these teacher busting policies are having.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/educat...for-open-positions-b99556824z1-322096631.html
Blah, blah, blah.
The story says they used to get 130 applications and now they just get 50. Sucks to be the 49 who don't get the job.
Let me know when they get zero applications. Then you might actually have a point.
Does it honestly surprise you that it would be difficult to permanently remove a student from our public schools? Like most public things, its protected by rights and laws and appeals. The public school doesn't have the same ability to rid itself of bad apples as a private school. You can't honestly not agree with that right?
Public schools expel kids all the time.
http://law.freeadvice.com/government_law/education_law/expell_public_school.htm
And its difficult, yet those hard working public teachers climb the mountains of bureaucracy and pay the legal bills to get done what a private school can do easily. The fact that you are even arguing a point that fits bolsters your world view that government is inefficient shows you are not arguing out of conviction.
Private schools have multiple advantages over public schools when it comes to producing better test results. Discipline procedures are just one. The greatest is probably that any student attending a private school has someone who cares about their education paying the bill. Couple that with the special ed burdon and you have 3 strikes that your studies don't account for in comparing private to public results.
Don't they still take the tests that get counted in the studies that compare school systems? I think they do just like the special ed kids do. All of that colors the results that get attributed to bad public school teachers.
I was just replying to your statement that students can't get removed.
While the test results will be included in the district results it is not included in the results for the school they came from.
You live in a world of fantasy.
Its hard to get people to even run in a lot of districts and people don't like paying taxes either. I have never heard of anyone going to a school board meeting anywhere demanding they pay the teachers more.
Even to that minor point, is it not harder to remove a kid to this special campus than it is for a private school to dismiss a student? And how about the budget costs of maintaining this special campus for brats? Doesn't that all get figured into the cost of public education? The bigger point that stands out is opponents of public schools refuse to use their stellar education to compare like to like in their arguments.
My wife's principle has done it twice this year. She makes a phone call and the kid is off campus the next day.
DELAND — Volusia County school employees and parents called for better pay, cleaner working conditions and less time spent on testing Tuesday during a rally and School Board meeting.
Photo Galleries
More than 200 people gathered outside the Volusia County administration building and then walked three blocks to the School Administrative Complex and more than two dozen spoke during a public comment period. Many focused on the district's recent proposal to grant a 1 percent one-time bonus to teachers and a 2 percent one-time bonus to support staff during union negotiations.
http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20150210/NEWS/150219935
Under 14...can't be expelled in NC. You have to offer alternative services up to and including a home school teacher for students under the cut-off.
§ 115C-390.11. Expulsion.
(a) Upon recommendation of the superintendent, a local board of education may expel any student 14 years of age or older whose continued presence in school constitutes a clear threat to the safety of other students or school staff.
In Iowa we have the choice. To be fair I would prefer my dues to go only local instead of paying the 6 figure salaries of the national people. I also don't like that they pay off groups like Jesse Jackson's Rainbow coalition or whatever it's called.
I stay in the union because the local people had my back when my district was violating my contract and I called them on it. They felt they could "due to past practices". My point is there is good and bad.
Assigning a child to an alternative school is considered neither an expulsion nor a suspension. At least in NC.
§ 115C-390.7. Long-term suspension.
(e) Disciplinary reassignment of a student to a full-time educational program that meets the academic requirements of the standard course of study established by the State Board of Education as provided in G.S. 115C-12 and provides the student with the opportunity to make timely progress towards graduation and grade promotion is not a long-term suspension requiring the due process procedures described in G.S. 115C-390.8. (2011-282, s. 2.)
Compare that to right-wing icon Geoffrey Canada who kicked out every member of his inaugural middle school class when their test scores failed to meet expectations.
I have never once heard my union say we are being treated poorly. That's ridiculous.
It appears more than 100,000 students are expelled from public schools each year.
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_169.asp
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_169.asp
Its not unrelated as all these bad kids are still counted against the public school system where bad kids aren't counted against private schools. In fact bad kids from private schools likely end up counting against the public system in the final calculation. This is such an obvious and basic point its hard to believe there are even posters who want to argue against it. Especially posters who love to point out government failure in every other arena.
Correct, I have always found the public, private, home school debate to be more about politics than kids.
Everybody has the same standard to reach and where we don't reach them it needs to be fixed.
DELAND — Volusia County school employees and parents called for better pay, cleaner working conditions and less time spent on testing Tuesday during a rally and School Board meeting.
Photo Galleries
More than 200 people gathered outside the Volusia County administration building and then walked three blocks to the School Administrative Complex and more than two dozen spoke during a public comment period. Many focused on the district's recent proposal to grant a 1 percent one-time bonus to teachers and a 2 percent one-time bonus to support staff during union negotiations.
http://www.news-journalonline.com/article/20150210/NEWS/150219935
That was a bunch of teachers for the most part pushing for more pay.
Story says teachers and parents.
Anyway, you said, "I have never heard of anyone going to a school board meeting anywhere demanding they pay the teachers more."
Now you've heard of it.
My kids go to pubic schools and I am happy with their education. I have always felt that a public school system is critical in a free society and should be supported. I hardly think the teachers unions here have hurt their education in any way. We have been blessed to have some really good teachers. Growing up in public schools myself I had a range from some really good ones who made a lasting impact in my life to some that were just terrible. That went all the way through the UI. I went to a private school for my grad degree. I am happy with the education I got there and the degree was worth it, but I don't think it was better just because it was private.
I should re-phrase that; I have never heard of the public (ie people besides teachers) doing it. The district in that article appears to have a lot of problems. There are far more people who bitch about their property taxes than people who ever show up supporting higher teacher salaries (That are not teachers).
Why do you think that? If you look at the link detailing the more than 100,000 expulsions in the country, you'll realize that North Carolina doesn't really expel students, so North Carolina is not relevant to a discussion of expulsions in public schools.
Pretty good article (with lots of updates because the teachers' unions have tried to "goon" him into silence).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenm...-teachers-underpaid/#2715e4857a0b123ec39a43a5
http://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenm...-teachers-underpaid/#2715e4857a0b123ec39a43a5
I don't know what other schools do, but my wife's union dues are not automatically taken from her paycheck, but they were up until a year or two ago. I don't see how that is relevant, though.
Multiple reasons which I have already stated. 1) You must have researched this to find this link, so you must already know there are barriers to permanently removing students from public schools that don't exist for private. 2) The very existence of those limits is exactly what your view of inefficient government would expect. 3) Your inability to meet the challenge to compare like to like. All of that tells me you are not arguing from a point of conviction.
Of course it's relevant. If the union requires the payment of dues, then that's not "voluntary spending of your money." What you really have is whatever money is left after the union takes its share, and allowing the union to do that is a condition of employment (i.e., making the money in the first place).
If donations to the church was a condition of employment, then we might have a relevant analogy.
