I'm arguing from personal experience (I was expelled from public school for repeatedly getting caught with marijuana).
Teacher's Unions: WTF? Who can justify them?
- Thread starter Herkmeister
- Start date
I'm arguing from personal experience (I was expelled from public school for repeatedly getting caught with marijuana).
Do you actually hear a lot of teachers complain about pay? I never hear any of my wife's coworkers complain about their pay. I'm sure you will find groups of teachers complaining on the internet, but I just do not see it in real life.
The Teachers Union here in Volusia County has been agitating for higher pay all year.
https://www.google.com/webhp?source...#q=daytona beach news-journal: teachers union
I went to High School completion at the community college (not GED; a real diploma) and it was wonderful. Was treated like an adult instead of a child; could come and go as I pleased; no stupid rules about attendance or tardiness; your car wasn't "locked in" after the bell rang; you could smoke on campus; etc., etc. And no problems going on to college. Getting kicked out of high school was actually a blessing.
I'm glad you had a good resolution, but that is beyond the scope of our conversation. I'm interested to hear about the getting kicked out part. How many times were you caught? How long did it take. Was there a lawyer involved?
Got caught with pot at my high school and was sent off to the alternate school. Then I got caught with pot at the alternate school and I was permanently expelled. Finished the year at a private school and then went on to the high school completion program. No, we didn't bother with a lawyer.
Asking for a 4% raise as part of their contract negotiation doesn't seem out of line.
I would love to see how they figured that. My salary divided by just my contracted hours is more than $10/hr less than that. If I add in the hours on just the clubs I sponsor, it drops below $20/hr...which puts me below their "Average. all Workers".
I would love to see how they figured that. My salary divided by just my contracted hours is more than $10/hr less than that. If I add in the hours on just the clubs I sponsor, it drops below $20/hr...which puts me below their "Average. all Workers".
It's from the government (BLS) so you'd need to take it up with the bureaucrats.
Sorry, pretty chopped up but it's a download I have from school. The reason many teachers are no longer big Union members in Iowa is pretty obvious from the information below. In our school we have 70 teachers and 22 of them are ISEA members. They negotiate our contracts. Teachers here just want to negotiate their contracts at the local level and not pay for all the bs lobbyist. These are old numbers as currently in our district union membership is over $800 and that does not include the pac donation that can be made. A small fraction of their dues actually go to the local union which does the negotiating. The ISEA does not actually negotiate your contract. They do provide some services which can aid the process but it's simple book keeping stuff to help you understand what you should ask. Their number is always outrageous. We tried the decertification process two years ago but the ISEA has such a stranglehold on politicians at the state level they've made it pretty tough to do it. In fact, we couldn't even get any help from the agency that's supposed to help with that. State and National Unions are no longer necessary in Iowa. You can set up local unions who have to be recognized as the bargaining unit and dues for our schools negotiations would have been $30 a year. Arbitration is always the threat used by unions when you want to decertify, but our school has never gone to arbitration and the cost isn't that much when divided by the group.
Volume 17, Number 28 October 2010
A Publication of: Public Interest Institute at Iowa Wesleyan College
600 North Jackson Street, Mt. Pleasant, Iowa 52641-1328
If you wish to support our efforts, please donate by sending a check to us at the above address.
If you wish to donate by credit card, please go to our website: www.limitedgovernment.org.
PII is a 501 (c) (3) non-profit organization and all contributions are tax deductible.
E-Mail: public.interest.institute@limitedgovernment.org
Website: www.limitedgovernment.org Phone: 319-385-3462 Fax: 319-385-3799
INSTITUTE BRIEF
Professional Protection and Support, Not a Union or a PAC
By Deborah D. Thornton
“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of
opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical.”
— Thomas Jefferson1
Thomas Jefferson, our third President, was a prolific writer and commentator with strong
opinions on many topics. I often wonder what he, and other Founding Fathers, would think of
our world today. For example, the Iowa State Education Association (ISEA) is a union representing
those employed by our school systems. The ISEA claims over 34,000 members statewide,
not only teachers but also support staff. 2
It not only charges state membership dues, but
also requires, as a condition of membership, that dues are paid to the National Education Association
(NEA).3
ISEA dues for a full-time, licensed teacher are $368 per year, plus the required
membership in the NEA — an additional $162 — plus local union and UniServe dues estimated
at an average of $116 more, for a grand total of $646.4
Jefferson would probably not have agreed
with this approach.
In contrast, the Professional Educators of Iowa (PEI), a non-profit education association
that provides educator-support services, only charges $198 per year for a professional membership
and does not require membership in any other organization.5
This is a savings of almost
$450 per year, a significant amount to a teacher on a budget.
What does the ISEA provide for the additional $450? It provides an extensive statewide
staff of over 70 people, based in a state headquarters and 19 UniServe units. The 47 UniServe
staff are “on-call to help with individual contract problems, negotiations, membership development,
political action, or training activities.”
ISEA also has one of the largest Political Action Committees (PAC) in the state. Though
ISEA stresses that its PAC donations are separate from regular dues and that these contributions
are voluntary, note that one of the duties of the UniServe staff is to help with political action activities.
Presumably they are paid from regular dues. In addition, there are several interesting aspects
of the ISEA-PAC Campaign Ethics and Disclosure forms. For example, in the “donations
received” category for the December 2009 filing, over $108,000 of donations were reported in a
lump sum as, “Unitemized Contributions…Payroll deduction.”6
The July 2009 filing reported an
even larger amount, $199,335.7
In the expenditure category, $138,000 in contributions was made to political candidates
and committees from January to July 2010. Of that, $135,000 went to either the Iowa Democrat
State Committee or Democrat Governor Chet Culver. The remaining $3,000 went to Democrat
State Legislative candidates.8
In earlier reporting periods, large (five figure) contributions also
went to House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (House District 67, Des Moines), Speaker of
the House Pat Murphy (House District 28, Dubuque), and Senate Majority Leader Mike Gronstal
(Senate District 50, Council Bluffs), all major Democrat office holders.9
Therefore, since contributions
to the PAC are voluntary and since the ISEA would certainly not be “sinful and tyran-
Volume 17, Number 28 October 2010
Permission to reprint or copy in whole or part is granted, provided a version of this credit line is used:
"Reprinted by permission from INSTITUTE BRIEF, a publication of Public Interest Institute."
The views expressed in this publication are those of the author and not necessarily those of
Public Interest Institute. They are brought to you in the interest of a better-informed citizenry.
nical” in Thomas Jefferson’s words, ISEA members must be 100 percent registered Democrats
and 100 percent in support of Democrat candidates. Without checking the voter rolls against the
34,000-membership list, it’s impossible to verify this fact, but it seems highly unlikely. Wonder
if the ISEA leadership has read any Thomas Jefferson? As educators, we would hope so.
In contrast, PEI has a staff of only six and no PAC.10 What PEI offers instead is a much
stronger package of benefits.11 For an educator working with children, personal liability protection
is important. The PEI package of personal protection coverage provides $2 million in
protection, including $3 million in civil rights claims protection. The ISEA member benefits
package provides only $1 million in coverage, and only $300,000 in civil rights coverage — a
significant difference. The PEI coverage also includes $40,000 in coverage for attorney’s fees
in a criminal case; even if a loss, PEI coverage will pay $10,000 for the case. The ISEA coverage
is only $35,000 and only occurs if the insured is exonerated or the charges are withdrawn or
dismissed. The PEI coverage for attorney fees in wrongful dismissal or licensing/credentialing
claims is also significantly better, as ISEA does not cover the insured educator for those issues.
Because Iowa is a right-to-work state, an independent professional association such as
PEI has the opportunity to present its program and options to our children’s educators, without
requiring them to support a specific political party. It would be nice if the members of the ISEA
had that opportunity too.
(Endnotes)
1 Thomas Jefferson Quotes, Brainy Quote, <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasjeff122833.html>
(September 8, 2010). 2 “Who we are,” Iowa State Education Association, <http://ia.nea.org/about/index.html> (September 8, 2010). 3 “Frequently Asked Questions, Question #6,” Iowa State Education Association, <http://ia.nea.org/about/faqs.
html#6> (September 8, 2010). 4 Professional Membership, Iowa State Education Association, Professional Membership, <http://ia.nea.org/join/
professionals.html> (September 8, 2010). 5 Professional Educators of Iowa, <http://www.peiowa.org/> (September 7, 2010). 6 Disclosure Summary Page, Iowa State Education Association-Political Action Committee, December 31, 2009,
<https://webapp.iecdb.iowa.gov/PublicView/statewide/2010/Period_Due_Date_19-Jan/PACs/Iowa State Ed
ucation%20Association%20PAC__6086__scanned.pdf> (September 8, 2010). 7 Iowa State Education Association Political Action Committee Report, July 19, 2009, <https://webapp.iecdb.iowa.
gov/PublicView/statewide/2009/Period_Due_Date_19-Jul/PACs/Iowa%20State%20Education%20Association%20
PAC__6086__scanned.pdf> (September 9, 2010). 8 Iowa Ethics and Campaign and Disclosure Board, Contribution Search, ISEA-PAC, <https://webapp.iecdb.iowa.
gov/publicview/ContributionSearch.aspx#ctl00_cph1_gvList> (September 8, 2010). 9 Ibid.
10 Contact List, Professional Educators of Iowa, <http://www.peiowa.org/contact/contact.html> (September 7, 2010). 11 “Frequently Asked Questions,” Professional Educators of Iowa, <http://
It's your plan, you tell us what you are arguing for. It reads to me like you want to privatize public schools in the belief that "a private school would do things better than government."
No, I never said I wanted to privatize public schools. I simply suggested that private business does most things better than government can.
You forgot to tell us what you were arguing for if it wasn't to follow the better option.
Increases in teacher salaries in response to labor market conditions.
Interestingly, public school teachers make more than their private school counterparts.
Actually, it's directly on this "minor point":
naturalmwa: Even to that minor point, is it not harder to remove a kid to this special campus than it is for a private school to dismiss a student?
TexMichFan: My wife's principle has done it twice this year. She makes a phone call and the kid is off campus the next day.
That's because it's regarded as a transfer and there are no due process rights for the student or their family - at least in NC. Easy. It's a phone call. And - in NC, at least - if a certain percentage of their year was spent in the traditional school, their test scores count against that school.
My wife teaches first grade. She has two students who leave her class every day for ESL instruction while she teaches writing. They are NEVER in her class for writing. They will be assessed on their ability to write at the end of the year and their scores will count against my wife. That's new this year, In the past, she would record the percentage of time they spent in her class on that particular task and she would be accountable for that percentage of their score - meaning that these students' writing scores wouldn't be used to assess her skills at teaching writing.
Furthermore, NC just changed the metric by which schools are assessed. 80% of the score is now based on whether or not students are "on level" at the end of the year. High poverty schools where students were making great progress went, in an instant, from being high-performing based on student GROWTH (making more than a year's improvement in only one year of instruction) to failing based on the students not being on grade level. Suddenly, it didn't matter if you took a student body that was 2 years below grade level and made up more than a year of that deficit in one year. Not on grade level = FAIL.
Those changes, among many others, have been pushed through by our GOP legislature. If you can defend them, I'd like to see it.
As is the objective of any trade union. Is the job of the UAW to build better cars..or is it to work for the betterment of its members? C'mon Herk, I think you're better than this. It is the duty of local school boards to strive to improve the education of their students. This "blaming someone else for what I see as a problem" blather is the #1 symptom of what might be wrong with America today. Overall, the education today's youth receives is of a much higher quality than what I received 50 years ago. Most of what I see wrong with education today stems from parents who are trying to relive their youth via their children's lives and schooling. Let the kids struggle and occasionally fail, support them and their efforts and allow them to learn. Don't protect them from failure and/or difficulty.
Also, economics is a huge player in who receives a quality education and who doesn't. Failures in education are much deeper than teacher unions.
^^^^^^^
BioHawk...you live in Wisconsin? This is just about exactly what Walker's "education program" entails. My S-i-L retired 2 years ago when Walker released the details of "his plan." Walker's idea of a great Wisconsin education includes a one room school somewhere in "his" plan.
Here's the funny part. Remember how they point to Switzerland when it comes to guns? They also point out how Finland kicks our butts on international tests (they don't but that's a different story). Finland...the country that "leads the world in education"...has a teacher workforce that's 95+% unionized.
How can that be?
How can that be?
European unions are nothing like American unions.
In Europe, the unions partner with the employer to make everything better.
In America, unions have a confrontational relationship with the employer that makes nothing better.
If you were intending to communicate a message that we should pay public teachers more, you will need to work on your communications skills. That is not the message being received.
Nope. Not intending to send that message at all. Wages are determined by the supply and demand of people qualified to perform the job. That's how all prices are determined. If we want higher wages for teachers, we either need fewer teachers or more students.
Your communications skills are horrible. So now we are back to square one. What is your plan?
Private business and government have totally different goals and missions. Its a silly comparison.
Getting girls into STEM fields will reduce the number of girls who go into teaching. Assuming no change in the number of students, that will cause wages to rise.
You got that from Brimelow' "The Worm in the Apple," right? Yeah, I read that too. Were you gonna plagiarize the whole thing for us? Do you have any thoughts of your own on this matter? Or do you, is that your thing, you come into HROT, read some obscure passage and then pretend - you pawn it off as your own, as your own idea just to impress some guys, embarrass some others?
- You got that from Brimelow' "The Worm in the Apple," right? YES
- Were you gonna plagiarize the whole thing for us? NO Was trying to be quick and took this off a book review from Amazon. Sorry it looked like plagiarizing. Actually I planned to give Mr. Brimelow credit. Not my style to take credit for the work of others.
- Do you have any thoughts of your own on this matter? Yes, off course.
- Or do you, is that your thing, you come into HROT, read some obscure passage and then pretend - you pawn it off as your own, as your own idea just to impress some guys, embarrass some others? NO, but I have been accused of that another time.
- I am not anti union. Absolutely not, but I am anti teacher unions.
- I agree, the issues are far more complex than the unions alone, but I think they have played a severe role.
- Do I believe US education has improved? No. But I'm sure there are stats that show this is false.
- Was I trolling? No, but guilty of trying to stir the pot. Not my best post for sure.
- Why did I make this post? Because I learn from people and your view points are amongst my favorite. The fact that you knew I quoted Peter Brimelow is why I enjoy HROT. Where else could a dumb ass like me get called out by members of Mensa?
- No mater how cross you get with me MN, I'll keep reading your words until you delete me.
OK. Help me out, I'm a victim of the media. I believed we are falling behind other countries in education. Thanks.
