Texas woman asks judge to let her terminate pregnancy after lethal fetal diagnosis

[sober_teacher]

I believe her. I have no reason not to.

It's not far fetched at all.

So, it's not possible that she could possibly have remembered any of the details incorrectly?

I'm not questioning whether or not your aunt was being truthful, I'm questioning whether or not it's possible she didn't stuff wrong in the retelling.

I love my parents, sister, extended family. I'm always going to have their backs if they need my help. I also take stories they tell me about their work and such with a grain of salt. I have an uncle for instance, who has a remarkable ability to relay stories that he's been told as he if was there himself.

 

[BrianNole777]

So, it's not possible that she could possibly have remembered any of the details incorrectly?

I'm not questioning whether or not your aunt was being truthful, I'm questioning whether or not it's possible she didn't stuff wrong in the retelling.

I love my parents, sister, extended family. I'm always going to have their backs if they need my help. I also take stories they tell me about their work and such with a grain of salt. I have an uncle for instance, who has a remarkable ability to relay stories that he's been told as he if was there himself.

I think she got the core details right because she was stunned.

The pro-choice camp really doesn't respect life so I wasn't surprised.

 

[auntie_fah]

I think it's a true story.

I think she got the core details right

.

I'm sure they had rough childhoods

It's not made up at all. These employees were indeed nuts.

It's totally true, Riley.

 

[BrianNole777]

It's too bad we can't bet on it.

 

[auntie_fah]

It's too bad we can't bet on it.

Im sure its totally real, i think

 

[BrianNole777]

Im sure its totally real, i think

It is.

Do you know how many crazy people are in this world??

 

[Joes Place]

BrianNole777 is "pretty sure" he has his aunt's stories right...

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Having to ask a judge for a decision that should be between a woman and her doctor is ridiculous.

This is one of many reasons why the Abrahamic religions need to end. It’s a ****ing shame how much dumb religious thinking has taken over the GOP.

Keep government out of people’s lives. Period.

 

[the24fan]

Why would you want evidence for his birthdate being Dec 25? Is your faith not enough?

To me his birthdate is not important.
His death has much more significance. If Jesus’ birthday was important it would have been included in the scriptures ..

 

[sober_teacher]

To me his birthdate is not important.
His death has much more significance. If Jesus’ birthday was important it would have been included in the scriptures ..

Considering the Scriptures were first passed orally, centuries passing before it was written down, and then multiple church councils that determined what would or would not be included as part of the Scriptures, who's to say what was or was not originally included?

Not that it matters much in the grand scheme of human understanding today.

 

[the24fan]

Considering the Scriptures were first passed orally, centuries passing before it was written down, and then multiple church councils that determined what would or would not be included as part of the Scriptures, who's to say what was or was not originally included?

Not that it matters much in the grand scheme of human understanding today.

I guess my point is that if God wanted that particular date included in the Bible it would have been there. There is no mention of Jesus Birthday in the scriptures nor any evidence that it was celebrated by the disciples or later the apostles.
Jesus commanded his followers to observe only one thing. The anniversary of his death.
(Luke 22:19; 1Corinthians 11:23-26) And the gospels and most of the Christian Greek Scriptures were not writte n centuries after Jesus death. All of the gospels were completed between 41 and 98 CE, so less than 10 years after Jesus death in the case of Matthew. Revelation was written about 98 CE. And all the rest in between those years.

 

[RileyHawk]

I guess my point is that if God wanted that particular date included in the Bible it would have been there. There is no mention of Jesus Birthday in the scriptures nor any evidence that it was celebrated by the disciples or later the apostles.
Jesus commanded his followers to observe only one thing. The anniversary of his death.
(Luke 22:19; 1Corinthians 11:23-26) And the gospels and most of the Christian Greek Scriptures were not writte n centuries after Jesus death. All of the gospels were completed between 41 and 98 CE, so less than 10 years after Jesus death in the case of Matthew. Revelation was written about 98 CE. And all the rest in between those years.

That is a guess, at best.

It is important to understand that the dating of the Gospels and other New Testament books is at best an educated guess and at worst foolish speculation. For example, suggested dates for the writing of the Gospel of Matthew range from as early as A.D. 40 to as late as A.D. 140. This wide range of dates from scholars indicates the subjective nature of the dating process. Generally, one will find that the presuppositions of the scholars greatly influence their dating of the Gospels.

 

[lucas80]

Have you heard of the movement for America to peacefully dissolve into different countries?

It's picking up steam.

Did your aunt tell you this while she was relating totally believable stories about ghetto people?

 

[lucas80]

Goldmom's lack of understanding about why leaving the state isn't an option is pretty telling about how the laws were constructed around the country. They totally made exceptions for the life of the mother and rape, you just can't meet all the requirements or the timeframe. So, tough luck.

 

[sober_teacher]

I guess my point is that if God wanted that particular date included in the Bible it would have been there. There is no mention of Jesus Birthday in the scriptures nor any evidence that it was celebrated by the disciples or later the apostles.
Jesus commanded his followers to observe only one thing. The anniversary of his death.
(Luke 22:19; 1Corinthians 11:23-26) And the gospels and most of the Christian Greek Scriptures were not writte n centuries after Jesus death. All of the gospels were completed between 41 and 98 CE, so less than 10 years after Jesus death in the case of Matthew. Revelation was written about 98 CE. And all the rest in between those years.

This is another point that highlights the inherent contradiction b/t free will and god's plan - that date would have been included had God wanted it, but the Scriptures were passed, collected and recorded by man. Ergo - it could easily have been left out due to human error at some point. But if it was part of God's plan that we not know the exact date, isn't our later providing a date then violating God's will?

Understand - this is partly tongue-in-cheek, part legit query, and not really looking for a hard answer. Personally, I don't think God ever intended all of the answers to be contained in Scripture. He gave us curiousity, and an intellect to explore the universe around us. Many of our greatest discoveries imo that have led us to delve into the great mysteries came because I don't think we were ever intended to know ONLY what God told us.

 

[sober_teacher]

Goldmom's lack of understanding about why leaving the state isn't an option is pretty telling about how the laws were constructed around the country. They totally made exceptions for the life of the mother and rape, you just can't meet all the requirements or the timeframe. So, tough luck.

I mean, Republican's aren't totally stupid here - they know outright abortion bans would be political suicide not to mention legally dubious. So they write laws that simply restrict so much as to be de facto banned, but not specifially written that way.

 

[BrianNole777]

Did your aunt tell you this while she was relating totally believable stories about ghetto people?

No, a UCLA psychology professor on the FSU board did.

I think it's an idea.

Americans really don't fit with each other. We have irreconcilable differences.

Why not split up peacefully?

 

[goldmom]

Goldmom's lack of understanding about why leaving the state isn't an option is pretty telling about how the laws were constructed around the country. They totally made exceptions for the life of the mother and rape, you just can't meet all the requirements or the timeframe. So, tough luck.

I’m admittedly past the age where I would worry about a problem pregnancy. And I’m also not familiar with how these relatively new (and untested) laws that try to hold a woman criminally liable work either.
It’s a lack of familiarity rather than a lack of understanding.
If someone does something in one state and it’s not a crime there, how does another state claim it’s a crime anyway and charge them once they are back home? (Murder is a crime everywhere so obviously that would be an exception)
I was in college near the time of RvW and I knew girls who “went to NY” For the weekend because they could legally have an abortion. No one feared that they’d be arrested. What crime was committed in Florida? None!
I do think it’s going to be tested.

 

[the24fan]

This is another point that highlights the inherent contradiction b/t free will and god's plan - that date would have been included had God wanted it, but the Scriptures were passed, collected and recorded by man. Ergo - it could easily have been left out due to human error at some point. But if it was part of God's plan that we not know the exact date, isn't our later providing a date then violating God's will?

Understand - this is partly tongue-in-cheek, part legit query, and not really looking for a hard answer. Personally, I don't think God ever intended all of the answers to be contained in Scripture. He gave us curiousity, and an intellect to explore the universe around us. Many of our greatest discoveries imo that have led us to delve into the great mysteries came because I don't think we were ever intended to know ONLY what God told us.

I agree we’ve been given great capacity for learning . I’m just talking specifically about Christmas and the fact it has no basis for celebrating it. Of course most celebrate it only for the festivities anymore . It’s pretty much lost most of its religious significance. All about the parties, gifts, etc….
It does make you wonder though what else is taught in the churches that has no scriptural backing ?

 

[sober_teacher]

I agree we’ve been given great capacity for learning . I’m just talking specifically about Christmas and the fact it has no basis for celebrating it. Of course most celebrate it only for the festivities anymore . It’s pretty much lost most of its religious significance. All about the parties, gifts, etc….
It does make you wonder though what else is taught in the churches that has no scriptural backing ?

Based on the stuff that religious figures cite to support their extreme positions at times, I question whether or not they read the same Bible I did k-12.

 

[globalhawk]

I agree we’ve been given great capacity for learning . I’m just talking specifically about Christmas and the fact it has no basis for celebrating it. Of course most celebrate it only for the festivities anymore . It’s pretty much lost most of its religious significance. All about the parties, gifts, etc….
It does make you wonder though what else is taught in the churches that has no scriptural backing ?

What do you honestly believe your purpose in life is as a JW?

 

[the24fan]

What do you honestly believe your purpose in life is as a JW?

I guess I would say my faith in God and doing his will first in my life. Living my life in appreciation for the fact that without God providing Christ as a ransom we would have no hope for the future. It changes things when u believe Gods promise that the conditions we see around us won’t be here much longer. His kingdom that we pray for will soon replace human governments and the earth will be transformed back into the paradise he originally intended for humans.
I’m no different than anyone else . I have problems, challenges in life etc but I place my trust in God and do believe his laws and principles contained in scripture help us be successful in life.
Also I do my best in telling others about the Bible’s hope for the future, obeying Jesus command to make disciples and preach the good news of the kingdom .
After all as 1Timothy 2:4 says about God,”whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.”

 

[BrianNole777]

I guess I would say my faith in God and doing his will first in my life. Living my life in appreciation for the fact that without God providing Christ as a ransom we would have no hope for the future. It changes things when u believe Gods promise that the conditions we see around us won’t be here much longer. His kingdom that we pray for will soon replace human governments and the earth will be transformed back into the paradise he originally intended for humans.
I’m no different than anyone else . I have problems, challenges in life etc but I place my trust in God and do believe his laws and principles contained in scripture help us be successful in life.
Also I do my best in telling others about the Bible’s hope for the future, obeying Jesus command to make disciples and preach the good news of the kingdom .
After all as 1Timothy 2:4 says about God,”whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.”

How old are you, what state do you live in and when did you become a Jehova's Witness?

 

[3boysmom]

I believe her. I have no reason not to.

It's not far fetched at all.

It is absolutely far fetched. Nobody thinks having an abortion is funny. It’s traumatic for some, it’s a relief for others, but it’s not fun to anyone. But sure, we’re to believe that people from the ghetto are laughing because it’s so funny, coming up with the extra money to pay for it and to take off time for the procedure and recovery, freely sharing the information with anyone and everyone. That’s far more plausible than someone making up a story to fit their narrative.

 

[BrianNole777]

It is absolutely far fetched. Nobody thinks having an abortion is funny. It’s traumatic for some, it’s a relief for others, but it’s not fun to anyone. But sure, we’re to believe that people from the ghetto are laughing because it’s so funny, coming up with the extra money to pay for it and to take off time for the procedure and recovery, freely sharing the information with anyone and everyone. That’s far more plausible than someone making up a story to fit their narrative.

"Nobody??"

How can you know?

There are 10's of millions of deranged people in this country.

Look how many Trump supporters there are, as an example.

 

[the24fan]

How old are you, what state do you live in and when did you become a Jehova's Witness?

51.. Minnesota
Was raised as one of Jehovah’s witnesses. Was not forced to do it . When I was older I made the choice to stay with the faith based on what I was learning from the Bible.

 

[BrianNole777]

51.. Minnesota
Was raised as one of Jehovah’s witnesses. Was not forced to do it . When I was older I made the choice to stay with the faith based on what I was learning from the Bible.

Thanks.

What do you think happens to non-Jehovas Witnesses after death...Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.?

 

[globalhawk]

Thanks.

What do you think happens to non-Jehovas Witnesses after death...Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.?

 

[BrianNole777]

Jehova's Witnesses don't believe in Hell, actually.

 

[General Tso]

I'm as pro life as they come, but what this woman is going through is ridiculous

 

[Joes Place]

Meanwhile, in Missouri...

 

[Joes Place]

What's going on in TX and MO are perfect examples of why a national abortion rights law is an imperative.

Otherwise, Republicans will put people like Paxton in power to eliminate ALL of those rights. 100%. Leaving women with problem pregnancies in a very very bad place.

 

[Joes Place]

51.. Minnesota
Was raised as one of Jehovah’s witnesses. Was not forced to do it . When I was older I made the choice to stay with the faith based on what I was learning from the Bible.

Apparently not.

Because the "Bible" offers an "abortion formula" in it.
Did you not read that far, yet?

 

[hawkbirch]

Meanwhile, in Missouri...

View embedded media

If the fetus is a person, deadbeat dads should be charged with child abandonment or neglect. I'll wait for that legislative proposal.

 

[Joes Place]

I guess I would say my faith in God and doing his will first in my life. Living my life in appreciation for the fact that without God providing Christ as a ransom we would have no hope for the future. It changes things when u believe Gods promise that the conditions we see around us won’t be here much longer. His kingdom that we pray for will soon replace human governments and the earth will be transformed back into the paradise he originally intended for humans.
I’m no different than anyone else . I have problems, challenges in life etc but I place my trust in God and do believe his laws and principles contained in scripture help us be successful in life.
Also I do my best in telling others about the Bible’s hope for the future, obeying Jesus command to make disciples and preach the good news of the kingdom .
After all as 1Timothy 2:4 says about God,”whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.”

Numbers 5:15-22

15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord.

17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.

18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.

19Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.

20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”—

21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.
22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

 

[the24fan]

Numbers 15:15-22

15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord.

17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.

18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.

19Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.

20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”—

21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.
22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

Thats not Numbers 15. Not even remotely close

 

[Joes Place]

Thats not Numbers 15. Not even remotely close

My bad. Numbers 5.

Did u not get that far in your "Bible Studies"?

 

[Joes Place]

" @the24fan Has Left The Chat "

 

[lucas80]

Meanwhile, in Missouri...

View embedded media

Isn’t this where it was always destined to go? Abortion is murder. Roe was never going to be enough. There will always be a next battle for the zealots.

 

[the24fan]

My bad. Numbers 5.

Did u not get that far in your "Bible Studies"?

I did .
The scriptures you’re referring to were talking about the reproductive organs, not a miscarriage .
If a wife was truly unfaithful she would lose the ability to bear children , which in those days being barren was a quite a big deal.
This view harmonizes with the statement that if the woman was innocent she was to be made pregnant, implying that if she was guilty any future pregnancy would be denied her. Her belly would swell because of the curse, but not due to the blessing of pregnancy.