The mood of the board regarding Fran
- Thread starter BlackNGoldBleeder
- Start date
I doubt we keep seeing guys on the level of Keegan(hopefully Kris) and Luka, but we'll see.
If he can't win the conf or make a march run with them, hard to imagine doing so without em.
He's capable of coaching those runs. He coached Iowa through the B1G tournament this year, and to the finals of the NIT with a relatively young squad in his 3rd season. He hasn't got Iowa out of the round of 32 at Iowa yet but I think it is coming.
While I'd agree with most of your post, on he other hand I'd call it disingenuous to say he "lucked into three likely NBA players". I just don't see how people keep trying to bang the guy for his faults and then say he was lucky to have those players. he DID recruit them. He DID land them, (again this is the guy people say can't close the deal). He did develop them, or at least certainly put them in position to be EXTREMELY successful. That in itself is a BIG deal. Would Garza or Keegan have been as successful in another system? Maybe, and maybe not. What DID happen is they had alltime career making seasons as Iowa and BIG players, and NPOY type seasons. I don't see how Fran lucked into that.
He got lucky nobody snatched up the murrays in HS.
I'd agree, no luck on the Garza front...
He still had to offer the twins and he was the first to do so. He should get some credit for that. And as I said there's NO proof that Keegan or Luka would have had those seasons on another team in another system. Part of his job is certainly to put his players in the position to be at their best.
You're not giving the players AND their families enough credit. Fran obviously deserves credit, but let's slow the Fran train down a bit
And if he were more successful, would probably jump to a blue blood at the drop of a hat. That’s another factor too.
With that said, if Iowa were to part ways with Fran, there are a few Iowa alums who could potentially be good replacements and would likely stick around. I speak of course of Horner, Gatens, and Oliver.
Frankly, I would like to see Iowa go much younger with their head coaching position. Someone who could not only better relate to high school kids but also adapt to the new NIL landscape and bring in assistants who aren’t ostensibly dead-weight yes men.
That’s an excellent point. We almost had the NPOTY two years in a row and still didn’t come close to getting out of the first weekend of the tournament. And, tbh, I’m still a little salty that Keegan was buried on the bench his freshman year when he could have provided what ailed that team the most—defensive versatility and rebounding. So, I still hold that grievance against Fran.
I also think fans might be setting themselves up for disappointment expecting Kris to carry next year’s team like his brother did this past season (assuming Kris comes back). There are also a lot of question marks at the 5 and point guard position. It seems pretty clear Fran is going to roll with the bigs already on campus and I think it’s really unfair to Bowen to expect him to come in from day one and lead this team like an all-conference performer.
The class of 2023 better be spectacular or Fran might be steering a sinking ship.
For sure, anybody expecting Kris to come out and play like a lottery pick npoy is crazy. It's certainly possible but that's so hard to be that good!
I think we're a bubble team at best if Kris comes back, but only time will tell.
You’re right that he recruited Keegan and Kris when few others were.
My point is that if they weren’t from 30 miles up the road and if their dad wasn’t an alum he likely would have never found them. That is luck.
Wieskamp was always going to be a Hawkeye barring Lick being head coach. So, once again luck that he was born where he was.
Garza, Cook, and White are the biggest recruiting coups for Fran in his tenure. Excluding those greats, his other NBA players are Marble who was a legacy first signed by Lick and Uthoff who went to high school 30 miles north of Iowa City and transferred closer to home.
So soon to be 6 or 7 NBA players in the next few year that we’re Fran players, but only 2 didn’t have some prior connection to Iowa.
My point is that if they weren’t from 30 miles up the road and if their dad wasn’t an alum he likely would have never found them. That is luck.
Wieskamp was always going to be a Hawkeye barring Lick being head coach. So, once again luck that he was born where he was.
Garza, Cook, and White are the biggest recruiting coups for Fran in his tenure. Excluding those greats, his other NBA players are Marble who was a legacy first signed by Lick and Uthoff who went to high school 30 miles north of Iowa City and transferred closer to home.
So soon to be 6 or 7 NBA players in the next few year that we’re Fran players, but only 2 didn’t have some prior connection to Iowa.
I'm not the conductor of any "Fran train". I'm merely saying if people want to point out the guys faults, (which he certainly has), then he should get the credit where its do as well. Herky T Hawk said Fran "lucked" into those players and what they accomplished. I think thats broad brushing and over simplifying his impact. Thas all I said...You're not giving the players AND their families enough credit. Fran obviously deserves credit, but let's slow the Fran train down a bit
Seriously? So your going to go back to every BIG school or nationally and play that silly game? So Bob Knight was lucky he signed Steve Alford from New castle Indiana? Are you actually going to go back to every school and justify whether the recruit had any connection or geographic tie to the school, otherwise they were just "lucky" to get the guy? I can't begin to say how ridiculous that would be. So Utoff went to wisconsin and transferred correct? Did no other schools show interest on him as a transfer? i'm pretty sure you know the answer to that. How do you know he didn't come to Iowa because he liked what he saw in Frans coaching? Why didn't he go elsewhere? Then you name three of the top players who have EVER played at Iowa, and then brush off Fran signing them like it meant nothing? As for the twins, why don't you pose the question to Kenyon, who posts here, if Fran was just "Lucky" to get the boys, or if he made a connection with them, and they saw themselves fitting in to his system....
I wish Fran could be lucky having the amount of talent growing up in Iowa that Michigan and MSU have lucked into.
Or IL. Or MN. Or WI, for that matter. Iowa is probably the least talent-producing state of the original B10 footprint. It is getting better but generally the hottest bluebloods can cherry pick the rare 5-star talent that occurs in Iowa.
I hear you and agree
That said I think Luka and Keegan are beasts regardless where they go. Keegan is a serious athlete with a nice shot. I doubt there's a person alive with a better work ethic than luka. Having the families they sure didn't hurt either
. But yes Fran shares in their credit.Good post, though if program success is an A-, why does Fran get a B overall? I feel like overall grade should match program success grade unless you’re cheating to get there or something. I mean Fran’s not an amazing recruiter, but I care about wins more than recruiting wins. Also, I don’t think you can be a C recruiter and C at player development and still consistently finish in the top half of conference.
The only knock on Fran is NCAA tournament success. We are competitive during regular season and importantly play very fun style of basketball. He’s basically Ton Davis 2.0 and after struggling through Alford and Lickliter that is very okay with me!!!
The only knock on Fran is NCAA tournament success. We are competitive during regular season and importantly play very fun style of basketball. He’s basically Ton Davis 2.0 and after struggling through Alford and Lickliter that is very okay with me!!!
Honestly, the feelings about Fran change from day to day, game to game, year to year. College basketball is tough and Fran likes to do things his own way. Sometimes that is good and sometimes it is not. Almost any of the answers would have worked on a given day except the being linked to Roy Fuchoff, who is not even a fan of Iowa basketball.
You'd have to go back 40 years to find 4 consecutive teams with as many wins as the last four seasons. Yet disaster seems the annual prediction, except '21.
Every team, every year loses one or more key players. New guys have to step up. McC had that happen last year. Both the starting guards for this season have shown even bigger upsides. Don't write off Ahron just yet. Kris has shown a huge potential upside. P McC has a big upside. Payton could be a high-volume scorer. Tony Perkins gets his three down and he's probably All Big Ten. Isn't the same guy that started every game last season back at center, and both backups? Riley Mulvey could take a major step, for example. Become a significant player, especially on defense.
McC has shown an ability to develop players. I think Iowa will again be a surprise team next season.
Every team, every year loses one or more key players. New guys have to step up. McC had that happen last year. Both the starting guards for this season have shown even bigger upsides. Don't write off Ahron just yet. Kris has shown a huge potential upside. P McC has a big upside. Payton could be a high-volume scorer. Tony Perkins gets his three down and he's probably All Big Ten. Isn't the same guy that started every game last season back at center, and both backups? Riley Mulvey could take a major step, for example. Become a significant player, especially on defense.
McC has shown an ability to develop players. I think Iowa will again be a surprise team next season.
You and others are making my case for me. Fran did good by locking up the local talent. But the problem is that he has struggled to bring in much high end talent from outside of the state that didn’t have connections to the state already. Not counting the current roster that has yet to really be seen how good they are, the best out of state players have probably been Basabe who was a Sienna recruit, Marble who was a legacy, White, Gesell who lived across the river from the state, Olaseni, Cook, Moss, Fredrick who had a family connection to Fran and was a walk on, Garza, and Nunge who used to live in Iowa City. Those are some damn good players, but averaging less than one per year isn’t a ton of out of state talent in a 12 season tenure. Especially when three already had Iowa connections and two had prior Fran connections.
My point is he can’t rely on being gifted NBA players growing up within biking distance of IC on the regular. We aren’t MSU, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, etc. with tons of basketball talent close to campus every year. He needs to step up his out of state recruiting because of the talent issues that Iowa faces being in the 2nd least populous state in the conference and having to compete with ISU for in state players.
Franball is highly entertaining for fans and should be attractive to the exact type of recruits his system needs....athletic quick slashers ,two way players.
Fran has struggled to close on top level out of state(and a few instate) recruits.
The recruiting aspect is my only real gripe with Fran ...but he has scrambled well to find good players with high character.
Drilling down on the recruiting issue:
Fran identifies talent early.
He is dogged pursuing them.
In the end...bridesmaid.
Why?
I do think Fran is picky in terms of character(Scotty Lindsay) and family culture.
Fran runs a squeaky clean program and I have concluded it has hurt recruiting.
Unfortunately Iowa fans cannot have it both ways.
I choose Frans approach.
Watching the NBA playoffs it resembles the NFL when college spread offense invaded and changed the game.
In the NBA...3 of 4 finalists are spreading the floor, playing small ,running and above all , shooting the 3 ball.
This resembles Franball.
I like our future if we can keep getting shooters.
Fran has struggled to close on top level out of state(and a few instate) recruits.
The recruiting aspect is my only real gripe with Fran ...but he has scrambled well to find good players with high character.
Drilling down on the recruiting issue:
Fran identifies talent early.
He is dogged pursuing them.
In the end...bridesmaid.
Why?
I do think Fran is picky in terms of character(Scotty Lindsay) and family culture.
Fran runs a squeaky clean program and I have concluded it has hurt recruiting.
Unfortunately Iowa fans cannot have it both ways.
I choose Frans approach.
Watching the NBA playoffs it resembles the NFL when college spread offense invaded and changed the game.
In the NBA...3 of 4 finalists are spreading the floor, playing small ,running and above all , shooting the 3 ball.
This resembles Franball.
I like our future if we can keep getting shooters.
The Murrays weren't ready for the big time when they graduated from HS. I don't know that they had any prospects or offers. That's why they went the prep school route and, to their credit, they used that year to greatly improve their games and their bodies.
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As the great Ricky Bobby once said
"If you're not first, you're last."
Anyone suggesting that Fran needs to go because he hasn't won the B1G conference title subscribes to the Rick Bobby school of thought. Fran is a good coach. He's not a great or elite coach but how many of those are really out there and are willing to come to Iowa? Put me in the 2 spot.
"If you're not first, you're last."
Anyone suggesting that Fran needs to go because he hasn't won the B1G conference title subscribes to the Rick Bobby school of thought. Fran is a good coach. He's not a great or elite coach but how many of those are really out there and are willing to come to Iowa? Put me in the 2 spot.
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Last 3 seasons:
2020: Proj 5 seed by Andy Katz prior to cancelation and BTT
2021: 2 seed
2022 5 seed
That's 3 seasons in a row where Iowa was a top 20 team in the country and had legit sweet 16 hopes. Fran obviously needs to do better in the tournament--no questions about it. But you also can't kiss the girl if you don't show up to the prom.
Laws of averages also say that we are way past due for a lucky break in the tournament with how much we have played the "chalk" in the second round.
2020: Proj 5 seed by Andy Katz prior to cancelation and BTT
2021: 2 seed
2022 5 seed
That's 3 seasons in a row where Iowa was a top 20 team in the country and had legit sweet 16 hopes. Fran obviously needs to do better in the tournament--no questions about it. But you also can't kiss the girl if you don't show up to the prom.
Laws of averages also say that we are way past due for a lucky break in the tournament with how much we have played the "chalk" in the second round.
Fran is a solid coach but there's still room for improvement in certain areas that I don't think I see changing: Defense and recruiting. I think the defense just is what it is - the team can do it at times but it's not going to become a part of this program's DNA. Offense is good, defense is optional.
The recruiting - well, I just don't see it getting any better until I see the program changing its mentality. I feel this is more of an "Iowa" thing than a Fran thing. Landscape is changing (NIL etc.) and I am skeptical that Iowa is going to see the value in keeping up with the times. Hell, we can't even get a good student section and environment at Carver unlike a lot of other schools that don't even have a winning tradition (Nebraska comes to mind) so I have little reason to believe that Iowa is going to make much effort to create an NIL program that will attract recruits. They will just keep doing it "the right way" and finishing 2nd in recruiting battles.
The recruiting - well, I just don't see it getting any better until I see the program changing its mentality. I feel this is more of an "Iowa" thing than a Fran thing. Landscape is changing (NIL etc.) and I am skeptical that Iowa is going to see the value in keeping up with the times. Hell, we can't even get a good student section and environment at Carver unlike a lot of other schools that don't even have a winning tradition (Nebraska comes to mind) so I have little reason to believe that Iowa is going to make much effort to create an NIL program that will attract recruits. They will just keep doing it "the right way" and finishing 2nd in recruiting battles.
I'm sorry, but your continued premise that Fran has been "gifted" NBA players is simply ridiculous IMHO. Marble had very little D1 interest. Same with White, and yet they became top 10 scorers at Iowa in Frans system. He should get credit for both recruiting them, when they had few decent offers, and for their development. Cook was a 4 star and a very good get, with lots of offers, and he's hardly local, and had zero ties to Iowa. Garza was gaining alot of interest and picking up offers. If Fran hadn't been in on Luka early, and established a very good relationship with him, its likely he would have stayed out east somewhere. Somehow its your premise that Fran just lucky to get him. That couldn't be farther from the truth. He spent a lot of time early on following Luka around the country after his sophomore year. Thats called hard work, and due diligence. Nunge lived in Iowa city when he was young, and his ties to Iowa were minimal. Even though he finished 2nd or 3rd for Indiana's Mr. basketball, no offer from IU. gain Fran put in the work to land him. Thats not luck.
Kenyon Murray shopped them to Fran. You're neglecting Papa's role in the recruitment.
Fran as usual had missed his recruiting targets and had a couple open schollies.
I get it, 12-8 in B1G regular season is on top of the Basketball world, it don't get better than that. Next
year should be decent, unless Kris doesn't return...Kris is the guy that spent 3/4 of his 1s two years on the bench behnind the coache's son at Iowa, but NBA is interested in Kris....not so much in CMAC or PMAC.
Anyway Fran is here for awhile until he has a couple bad recruting years. He's solid coach, not great...maybe some of us don't feel overwhelmed by his moderate success.
Your Cmac obsession is impressive. Go to the search function, type in Cmac, then type in your name and see how many times you’ve mentioned Connor.
Good Lord, I'm hardly "overwhelmed". I'm not sure why its so hard for some people to think that anyone who thinks the guy should get SOME credit is somehow saying he's irreplaceable or something. I never said that, nor that he's the best thing since sliced bread. You guys realize there is a middle ground here, right? The poster said he's been lucky to get all these guys who have been at least borderline NBA players the last 10 years or so, and I'm saying thats crap. Look at Iowa's all time list of scorers. Most of the top 15 are Fran players. Yes I realize they have had longer careers as starters then a few of the all time greats, but Fran has a system that allows these players to flourish, (offensively), and he certainly helped them highlight their skills. And as I said most of these guys did NOT have ties to Iowa, and he certainly put in the work to recruit them.....
Well, Jess Settles has mentioned that when he goes and does broadcasts for Mountain West schools this past year, every coach would tell him how stupid they were for turning down the Murrays because Kenyon sent their tape to every school in the conference. So yes, Kenyon was doing what every good father would do--he pitched his sons to D1 coaches. Fran still did his due diligence and followed their progress through prep school. Would have been very easy to write them off as mid-major talents and stop recruiting them.
Exactly.......And thats all I'm saying. fran did the work, just like he did with Luka, and White etc... Anyone who can't see that is short changing the guy.
Fran: win a freaking NCAA tourney game, that’s my mood.
One win would have elevated the season to great in my memory with the b1g tourney as feather.
As it stands - massive disappointment.
One win would have elevated the season to great in my memory with the b1g tourney as feather.
As it stands - massive disappointment.
