The mood of the board regarding Fran
- Thread starter BlackNGoldBleeder
- Start date
He has won NCAA tournament games, I think you mean you want him to get past the first weekend, correct? That's what I'm looking for if not more. I know these teams are capable of it.
I think Fran is a better coach than Gard...yet one of them has won 2 conference titles (while being at his school for less time) and the other one none.
Because of this, put me in the Ricky Bobby camp.
Sorry, not sorry.
No program with the resources Iowa has should settle for somebody with a ceiling of one-and-done.
A twenty six win season is a massive disappointment? And here I thought it was pretty impressive and we didn't even have to cheat.
If you want to blame someone at Iowa for being a abject failure for not competing within the current NIL atmosphere, you have to look squarely at Mr. Barta, McCaffery's boss.
Those wonderful resources like being ranked in conference 14th in recruiting base, 12th in facilities, 13th in budget, 9th in history/tradition, and 10th in media exposure?
Go back further if you want to blame an AD. Bowlesby started the fall of Iowa basketball by firing Davis like he did then compounded the mistake by hiring Alford. Then he left town and saddled Barta with replacing him instead of doing it himself before he left.
According to this, Iowa is 14th nationally in revenue. I remember Jon Miller talking about this once, and this lines up about with what he was saying. If Iowa is 14th NATIONALLY, there's no good reason Iowa should be 12th and 13th respectively in facilities and budget in just the Big Ten when it's nearly that high in revenue on a national level. Where is all that money going if not to the budget/facilities?
Your recruiting base argument is valid, but one excuse Iowa can't use is "poor". The coffers are not empty.
Well, all the “arguments” are valid. They weren’t done by me and they may be a bit outdated now as it was put together by a poll among B1G coaches and experts 5-6 years ago. You can’t really use “sports revenue“ to judge Fran’s performance only basketball budget. I left out a couple of others from the poll like game atmosphere ranking 11th, selling pros 10th (hopefully that has improved since the poll with our recent success). Hey Iowa was #1 in the conference for easiest admission requirement!According to this, Iowa is 14th nationally in revenue. I remember Jon Miller talking about this once, and this lines up about with what he was saying. If Iowa is 14th NATIONALLY, there's no good reason Iowa should be 12th and 13th respectively in facilities and budget in just the Big Ten when it's nearly that high in revenue on a national level. Where is all that money going if not to the budget/facilities?
Your recruiting base argument is valid, but one excuse Iowa can't use is "poor". The coffers are not empty.
Where does the money go, I’m guessing not to basketball.According to this, Iowa is 14th nationally in revenue. I remember Jon Miller talking about this once, and this lines up about with what he was saying. If Iowa is 14th NATIONALLY, there's no good reason Iowa should be 12th and 13th respectively in facilities and budget in just the Big Ten when it's nearly that high in revenue on a national level. Where is all that money going if not to the budget/facilities?
Your recruiting base argument is valid, but one excuse Iowa can't use is "poor". The coffers are not empty.
According to this, Iowa was 34th in basketball expenses out of 51 P5 schools and 38th in revenue.
In 2020-21, Iowa was 34th for revenue of all sports. That is down from previous years where they were top 20. Iowa is still top 20 (18th) in expenses, but 36th (all schools) for mens basketball expenses.
Compared with the B1G rank for Men’s Basketball:
Year - Revenue - Expenses
2017/18 - 10th - 9th
2018/19 - 11th - 11th
2019/20 - 11th - 6th
2020/21 - 10th - 10th
Compared with the B1G rank for all sports:
Year - Revenue - Expenses
2017/18 - 7th - 7th
2018/19 - 5th - 5th
2019/20 - 5th - 5th
2020/21 - 11th - 6th
Compared with the BIG rank for Football:
Year - Revenue - Expenses
2017/18 - 7th - 7th
2018/19 - 6th - 5th
2019/20 - 6th - 5th
2020/21 - 4th - 5th
pretty cool website. https://www.sportico.com/business/c...finances-database-intercollegiate-1234646029/
This is spot on.
It is what it is. Iowa will always be a middle of the road program with a few special years mixed in. If that's not good enough for ya it's best you move on to another program.
Iowa is a low population state of mainly white people, most of whom haven't ventured out of their state. It's about as exciting as cream of wheat. We are lucky to have the program we do.
Big Ten money. That is the base, it’s up to Fran to win and create the excitement for all the little extra things people are pissing and moaning for. Fran never created the momentum.
Do you remember how bad it was before McC came? First Alford's attitude turned fans off, then the Pierre Pierce incidents caused a LOT of long-time fans to turn away, then the Lickliter experiment blew up in Iowa's face. Iowa was DEAD. Players were leaving in droves, and new recruits were for the most part unprepared to play in the B1G.
McC brought an exciting style of play and kids who were good player and students. Kids who for the most part have towed the line and been decent citizens. And he’s won progressively more games. He had created momentum, even through a pandemic, yet you and others still complain.
Fran joined the boys on T’d up….. Gave his perspective on a lot of things…. including the transfer portal…..His feeling is what message does it send to the players on his roster that he’s actively out looking for someone to replace them?
I know the whole shouldn’t be afraid of competition train of thought but it seems Fran really values his relationships with his players and is committed to developing the players that he recruits….
Fran is similar to Kirk in a lot of his coaching philosophies it seems….. both guys run clean programs and value high character…… Fran won 26 games? BIG tournament and Kirk won 10 made the BIG final and both have fans bitching about them
You’d think Iowa could get better coaches given how many fans know so much more than our current coaches
I know the whole shouldn’t be afraid of competition train of thought but it seems Fran really values his relationships with his players and is committed to developing the players that he recruits….
Fran is similar to Kirk in a lot of his coaching philosophies it seems….. both guys run clean programs and value high character…… Fran won 26 games? BIG tournament and Kirk won 10 made the BIG final and both have fans bitching about them
You’d think Iowa could get better coaches given how many fans know so much more than our current coaches
It doesn’t appear that “ I am not Alford or Lick” is motivating giant donations for all the extra people crave.
it is what it is
I think most Iowa fans are perfectly fine with the two head coaches but wish that they would make some changes that we think would greatly improve the teams. For Kirk, hire a true offensive coodinator that would bring the offense into the 21st century and for McCaffery, hire a defensive minded asst. coach. Just these two changes would greatly affect the opinion of many fans and might actually push the programs to the proverbial next level.
Tell that to all the players that Iowa is gonna recruit, but also make sure that they then don't turn down our offers, so that they can come to our school, instead of f***ing Kansas, UNC, Duke, Kentucky, etc etc or then later transfer to Iowa State, so we can win a got damn *kicks an empty box and gets it stuck on his foot* National F***ING Championship!
McC is getting donors and has drawn fans back. Are you saying he hasn't? Just because you aren't there doesn't mean others haven't.
And as far as not being Alford or Lick - well no kidding. He's doing at least as well as Davis was, and his teams are fun to watch. More fun, I'd say, than many other coaches I've seen in my 42 years here as a student and fan, especially on offense. I suffered through many 4-corners games. Glad we're beyond that!
oh Fans will always find stuff to be unhappy about….. pretty much any fan base…. but point taken …. I have my moments too
Fran excels at getting programs that were not good and getting them to the NCAA tournament. He is a master rebuilder. Runs a great/clean program.
Iowa Basketball is at Fran's ceiling.
Iowa Basketball is at Fran's ceiling.
It will be interesting to see how things go now that Iowa will be able to pay players as all the elite schools have been doing for years. We have had to compete without getting any of the top players. I expect we will get better players now and I also expect we will see more wins. The playing field is much more level in this environment. Because of NIL money I expect more players to remain in school longer. If you are not a lottery pick, might as well stay in school and get paid.
Kenyon shopped them to more than just Fran too. Kenyon is on record telling us that.
Fran was the one good enough to see their value. Don’t want to give Fran any credit.
Iowa athletic department revenue is in Top20 in the nation, so your reference that puts Iowa 13th budget WITHIN the B1G is highly inaccurate and the rest of the rankings are subjective/inaccurate/obsolete as well. Certainly Barta/UI president bear part of the responsibility for Iowa's limited ceiling given the money is there. The B1G is an elite money making conference---the sad thing is the B1G as a whole is lame in football and basketball
Iowa athletics was fifth in Big Ten in revenue in 2019, USA Today database shows
Iowa's increased revenue was driven primarily by a spike in donations, but the COVID-19 pandemic is taking a toll in the current fiscal year.
www.hawkcentral.com
https://www.pennlive.com/pennstatef...-programs-here-are-fresh-revenue-figures.html (football dominates revenue generation)
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Iowa athletic budget is around 14th in Nation in budget--if your resource is saying iowa is 13th in Buget, then what does that tell you about the quality of your information?
Iowa athletics was fifth in Big Ten in revenue in 2019, USA Today database shows
Iowa's increased revenue was driven primarily by a spike in donations, but the COVID-19 pandemic is taking a toll in the current fiscal year.www.hawkcentral.com
How is this so difficult for you to comprehend?
Your numbers are speaking about overall athletic budget for all sports (ie Football, Baseball, Basketball, Field Hockey, etc). Hawkinmo’s numbers are talking about athletic dollars spent specifically towards basketball. Clearly money isn’t going to the basketball program.
Just because Iowa is 14th in the nation in athletic budget doesn’t mean that they can’t be 13th in the B1G for basketball budget. Good lord.
Also for the record, Iowa dropped well out of the top 20 in total revenue for 2020-21. Iowa fell to 40th in revenue generated for all sports.
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Here is what Hawkinmo is talking about. The graph is about four years old.
These are rankings by B1G coaches and assistant coaches.
https://watchstadium.com/big-ten-ba...e-best-jobs-in-the-conference-10-11-2018/amp/
These are rankings by B1G coaches and assistant coaches.
https://watchstadium.com/big-ten-ba...e-best-jobs-in-the-conference-10-11-2018/amp/
Isn't most of the basketball budget just Pay to Fran and secodarily assistant coaches? Fran pay rank isn't very high within B1G and he doesn't go out an hire top notch assistants, so their pay is probably below average in B1G. By not firing a b-ball coach since Lickliter, there is no overhang of paying ex-coaches like Nebraska, Minny, Indiana suffer.
There has been a digusting inflation in coaching salaries in College Football and basketball as the easiest way to compete to get better is pay coaches more...the worm has changed a little with NIL, but unfortunately Iowa and Barta likely to botch that.
I have no idea where exactly each dollar goes, but it’s fair to assume salaries take up most of it. Recruiting / traveling is likely the rest.
In 2020-21 - Iowa’s Bball expenses were 7.2 mil. That would be 36 overall (all schools) and 10th in the B1G. Behind Rutgers, Penn State, and Nebraska’s 10 mil. Northwestern is not reported.
I disagree with this take. You could be right about the ceiling but I’m willing to believe Fran can get the program higher.
Fran’s first four years at Iowa- 2 NITs (one NIT final) 1 NCAA play-in. Building up from a program at rock bottom.
Fran’s next four years- 2 NCAA tournaments (1 win in each, 1 NIT (rebuilding year so not too bad, 1 super disappointing season. Gaining consistency overall.
Last four years- 4 NCAA tournaments (I’m counting the Covid cancellation) 2 NCAA wins in 3 years of chances, 1 Big Ten Tournament championship. Definitely the best 4 years in terms of team record/success, recruiting, and Individual accomplishments.
I think the program can level up another notch. It may not be accelerating at a high rate but the program has continuously been going up.
Fran takes a lot of grief, as pretty much every D1 coach does . That’s fine. It goes with the territory. In this era of a lot of unknown and chaos in college sports I’m good with Fran for another 4 year run.. maybe longer if he gets 1 sweet sixteen or better in that time frame. I think the admin/fans could step up and make the home court advantage even bigger.
Love the break down in four year increments.
Fran has been at Iowa for 12 full seasons. Of those 12 years, Iowa has improved from the previous season probably 9 or 10 times out of the 12. Pretty crazy
I also disagree about Iowa being Fran’s ceiling. Obviously Fran’s age will likely keep him at Iowa until retirement and it’s the biggest factor keeping other programs away from calling. That and I think Fran is pretty happy where he is.
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This is one of the realities against which Iowa must compete. All other things being equal, and they aren't, wouldn't tOSU sell like 2 and a half or 3 times as much apparel? Wouldn't their alumni donor base be around 2 and half or three times the size of Iowa's?
The key to Iowa's future financial competitiveness is to reconquer Des Moines. It's the only place in the state with a sufficient concentration of economic power that could give Iowa a significantly larger budget. One of the costs of getting access to the money might be playing some games up here, to the extent it's cost beneficial, of course.
I am astounded at the lack of Iowa marketing and attention up here. There are so many missed branding opportunities. If HS football is being played on Iowa's bye week the metro area should be invaded by kids from the metro area. Hawkeye night with alum from each HS with some other guys along. Signing autographs for school age kids and giving out Hawkeye shirts. Use some advance work. Maybe have a night where every kid gets a jersey of one of their school's Hawks. North gets little attention. 150 inexpensive Hilson jersey knock offs and a few hundred cheap Ts would generate a lot of media love and, more importantly some social media attention-cuz every player is going to want to tweet out that selfie with Hilson.
Pollard is kind of a douche, but he was willing to think outside the box to get ISU some attention, and it worked.
Why did Jesse James rob banks? That is where the money was.
The key to Iowa's future financial competitiveness is to reconquer Des Moines. It's the only place in the state with a sufficient concentration of economic power that could give Iowa a significantly larger budget. One of the costs of getting access to the money might be playing some games up here, to the extent it's cost beneficial, of course.
I am astounded at the lack of Iowa marketing and attention up here. There are so many missed branding opportunities. If HS football is being played on Iowa's bye week the metro area should be invaded by kids from the metro area. Hawkeye night with alum from each HS with some other guys along. Signing autographs for school age kids and giving out Hawkeye shirts. Use some advance work. Maybe have a night where every kid gets a jersey of one of their school's Hawks. North gets little attention. 150 inexpensive Hilson jersey knock offs and a few hundred cheap Ts would generate a lot of media love and, more importantly some social media attention-cuz every player is going to want to tweet out that selfie with Hilson.
Pollard is kind of a douche, but he was willing to think outside the box to get ISU some attention, and it worked.
Why did Jesse James rob banks? That is where the money was.
Iowa athletic department revenue is in Top20 in the nation, so your reference that puts Iowa 13th budget WITHIN the B1G is highly inaccurate and the rest of the rankings are subjective/inaccurate/obsolete as well. Certainly Barta/UI president bear part of the responsibility for Iowa's limited ceiling given the money is there. The B1G is an elite money making conference---the sad thing is the B1G as a whole is lame in football and basketball
Iowa athletics was fifth in Big Ten in revenue in 2019, USA Today database shows
Iowa's increased revenue was driven primarily by a spike in donations, but the COVID-19 pandemic is taking a toll in the current fiscal year.www.hawkcentral.com
https://www.pennlive.com/pennstatef...-programs-here-are-fresh-revenue-figures.html (football dominates revenue generation)
You don’t know the difference between between budget and revenue?
This. Just need to get over the hump in the NCAAs and shut up some of these jackals.
Agree completely on Iowa’s marketing needing a lot of work. I’m not a marketing guy and I don’t have the answers, but Iowa’s needs work. I think Fran has done a fair enough job marketing Iowa in his time here, but it should go well beyond him. Iowa football kind of markets itself, IMO, and basketball could to with success. It just seems even though Iowa is continuing to get better, the numbers are correlating with that success. Iowa Football, like Cubs Baseball (bleachers) is the ‘in thing’ to do. Iowa Basketball isn’t quite there for most. To me it is, but the students disagree for the most part.
I’ll also agree on Des Moines. Game times haven’t been friendly for the DSM folks, the increase in Cyclone fandom hasn’t helped either. That’s why I never understand rooting for ISU when they’re not playing Iowa stance. They are a threat to Iowa’s success by simply existing. The worse ISU is, the better it is for Iowa. Just my opinion.
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You raise some good points. Really see or hear little about the Hawkeyes in Des Moines. Lots of Hawk fans in the metro and seems like the school could find more opportunities to have a presence in DSM.
The problem is we've been saying that for 10 years now ...let's say 8 years to be fair.
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