So they're "jackals" but there's valid measurable data point which would satisfy (shut up) them. Interesting.
The mood of the board regarding Fran
- Thread starter BlackNGoldBleeder
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So they're "jackals" but there's valid measurable data point which would satisfy (shut up) them. Interesting.
So you want to switch now? Not sure I get what you are saying that is different from what I said.
I'm questioning the 13th rank in budget and how it is measured and what it means/relevance of a straw poll that knocks Iowa job due to budget. In the end, budget is limited by revenue and school committment to the sport, so I don't think anyone can argue the resources are not available at Iowa.
The basketball Budget is mainly head coach salary, Fran is around 10th in pay within B1G in pay--not 13th and he also has upside to salary from bonus--which puts him higher in rank if he performs. Is the knock that Iowa isn't willing to compete at top end in B1G for salary? That probably is true, but again I don't think Iowa job has ever been at the bottom in coaching pay over last 40 years. The other side of the coin is job stabilty at Iowa is better than most schools, but that isn't part of the poll.
As to basketball budget relevance.. IF a school is paying for both a current coach + fired coach, that means more money spent on coaching salary and a higher B-ball budget--but doesn't mean those schools are better positioned because they are spending more money. Nebraska, Minnesota, Indiana, Rutgers have all cycled through coaches in past 5 years.
20-21 is still a covid year. Let's see where Iowa revenues end up in a normal year given Iowa rank in preceding years is higher.
Realistically, 30+ years (yeah, I know the outlier Dr. Tom lame duck year run) and that was done thanks to unprecedented recruiting by Raveling that has never even been close to as good in the past 35 years.
No, I'm okay with giving him ~3 more years ...but if he can't break thru to the S16 or win an outright conference title by then, I will fully endorse moving on to a new regime. I think 15 years is more than enough time to give a 'blind squirrel to find that nut.' 😏
Hmmm...you probably wanted Davis fired, then Alford fired. How'd that work for ya?
The 13th ranked budget being talked about here is in the eyes (perception) of other B1G coaches/assistants. So obviously it is not hard and fact truths. Just what others, who may have a somewhat more informed opinion, think.
The link I’ve provided and repeated a couple times puts Iowa at 10th in basketball expenses (without NW reporting). That is pretty accurate to where Fran sits in salary. Possibly 11th because I don’t believe PSU’s new coach’s salary is fully reported yet for some reason (could be wrong on that). I think the PSU coach in his first year makes for than Fran in his 12th season. Sounds about right for Iowa basketball too.
Covid actually hit the Iowa Bball program fairly hard. Iowa went total revenue in previous years of 11.5 - 12 million down to just 6.2 mil in 2020-21. Iowa Bball actually had a loss in PnL that year too after making 2 to 4 mil in previous years.
To me it’s fairly obvious that Iowa’s cash cow is football (besides the B1G media rights). Most of any excess money goes back towards football. Right or wrong, that is what’s happening and it’s hard to fault the UI athletic dept for that strategy. The money ISN’T going towards basketball. That is my point. Iowa is spending about what they are getting back for basketball.
In 2019-20, Iowa was 6th in the B1G for total ticket sales (25 mil) for all sports. *NW not reporting. Almost doubled Illinois 13 million. Illinois spent 11.6 mil in Bball expenses returning a revenue of 21 mil. Then Iowa spent 8.8 mil and returned a revenue 11.4 mil. As far as total ticket sales go in comparison, OSU 66 mil, Mich 57 mil, Wisc 35 mil, Iowa 25 mil. PSU and Neb are both above Iowa here too
Illinois had 7 mil in football ticket sales and 6 mil in Bball ticket sales. Iowa by comparison had 21 mil for football and 3 mil for Bball.
Check this website out. It’s pretty cool. Click on Iowa and the “compare schools” on the right. It breaks it down to the B1G, all schools, P5 schools etc. It’s fun to see.
https://www.sportico.com/business/c...finances-database-intercollegiate-1234646029/
Agree but no reason to give him a pass first 4 seasons... to be fair Hoiberg and Otz both inherited bad to awful situations at isu. Fred had them 2nd round of tourney 2nd year and S16 4th, TJ inherited a dumpster fire and had s16 first year. Not saying Fran hasn't been decent but in bball you can turn it around fast if you're not making excuses. Playing his sons over better players last few years hasn't helped Frans cause at all
Difficult to compare. The transfer market was vastly different when Fran started out vs TJ/Hoiberg
From all appearances Hoiberg caught lightning in a bottle at IA State. He also basically controlled the lical police. He hasn't been able to come close to that at NE. Apparently karma caught up with him.
Regarding Lottaberger, 1 year isn't enough of a sample to say he's done great. He had a lot of luck with a team that struggled to score 60 ppg.
Hmmm...you probably wanted Davis fired, then Alford fired. How'd that work for ya?
Can't keep treading water at just above average results, or that is exactly where you will remain.
Also, for those who keep using the "Lickliter bogeyman" as a reason to not force change, please stop ...that hire was simply lightning striking, but in reverse. Chances of it happening again at Iowa are infinitesimal.
Can't keep treading water at just above average results, or that is exactly where you will remain.
Also, for those who keep using the "Lickliter bogeyman" as a reason to not force change, please stop ...that hire was simply lightning striking, but in reverse. Chances of it happening again at Iowa are infinitesimal.
I kind of took his post as going beyond just Lickliter. From Iowa screwing up the firing process of Davis, to the hiring process of the next two coaches. It’s taken Iowa 20+ seasons just to get back to where it was when we wanted Davis fired. It just seems odd that so many are so willing to possibly repeat it.
The Lickliter boogeyman is an easy out, but it goes well beyond him. He is the part of the iceberg that we can all see.
I try to keep it pretty simple in evaluating the basketball product. It boils down to 2 basic things that I want.
1. NCAA tourney performance
2. Games that are fun to watch
I think Fran's delivered pretty well on the entertainment value. The games are generally an enjoyable watch. Some people might trade for wisky under ryan. Not me. First to 50 wins is about the worst so called basketball there is. If the Hawks could just play a bit better D (maybe something around 60 per kenpom adjusted for the season) they'd be in the sweet spot.
NCAA tourney performance has been a fail.
So what I'm expecting going forward is continued enjoyable entertainment for many if not most games. And, most likely continued lack of performance in the NCAA tourney.
It would take a big collapse, major program violation or personal conduct issue for Fran to go anywhere. He'll most likely be the coach until he decides to stop coaching. I don't think the ongoing poor NCAA tourney performance will be a factor. It hasn't mattered that he hasn't done anything in the tourney through 12 seasons, why would that be an issue in the 13th, 14th or 15th?
1. NCAA tourney performance
2. Games that are fun to watch
I think Fran's delivered pretty well on the entertainment value. The games are generally an enjoyable watch. Some people might trade for wisky under ryan. Not me. First to 50 wins is about the worst so called basketball there is. If the Hawks could just play a bit better D (maybe something around 60 per kenpom adjusted for the season) they'd be in the sweet spot.
NCAA tourney performance has been a fail.
So what I'm expecting going forward is continued enjoyable entertainment for many if not most games. And, most likely continued lack of performance in the NCAA tourney.
It would take a big collapse, major program violation or personal conduct issue for Fran to go anywhere. He'll most likely be the coach until he decides to stop coaching. I don't think the ongoing poor NCAA tourney performance will be a factor. It hasn't mattered that he hasn't done anything in the tourney through 12 seasons, why would that be an issue in the 13th, 14th or 15th?
You’re more than welcome to join the Freddy Fan Club. I don’t think Nebraska has reached its cap on fans yet. Better get over there quickly, because rumor is that he may not be in Lincoln much longer.
Comparing Fran to Hoiberg 😂 I’ve seen it all now. Our fan base…. You just have to shake your head and laugh.
Interesting omission regarding Big Ten results. That's at least tied with NCAA Tourney success for me since it's much more than lightning in a bottle/one-off success and lasts all winter.
Fran will hit 20 years at Iowa.
What are the odds (according to you😉) that the next coach at Iowa will have more success than McCaffery?Can't keep treading water at just above average results, or that is exactly where you will remain.
Also, for those who keep using the "Lickliter bogeyman" as a reason to not force change, please stop ...that hire was simply lightning striking, but in reverse. Chances of it happening again at Iowa are infinitesimal.
A Big Ten regular season title would make the list. As I think the likelihood of that happening is slim to none, I did not add it as #3. Outside of that, I don't care all that much where they finish in the league other than how it affects their NCAA tourney seed and path. Just to cover it, I don't really care much about the made for TV Big Ten Tourney either. That's just a tune up for the NCAAs.
There is no "right" answer as this isn't a math test. Caring more about the Big Ten Conference final standing and Big Ten Tourney is as subjectively valuable to some people. I've got no beef with that, it's just not where my primary interest lies or what I value.
I don't know if Fran will be here 20 years, but I do agree that he'll be here for a good long time barring the things I previously cited.
Iowa has had back to back top 20 AP poll finishes in the last two years, 16th and 8th.
For comparison, you’d have to back 29 seasons to add up the last two top 20 AP poll finishes (15th in 2006, 13th in 1993). You’d have to go back 35 seasons for the last top 10 finish (6th in 1987).
Here we are having a serious debate whether Fran is good enough to be Iowa’s coach. Not even mentioning that Iowa has qualified for the NCAA tournament seven out of the last nine seasons. I doubt I’ll ever understand this fan base.
For comparison, you’d have to back 29 seasons to add up the last two top 20 AP poll finishes (15th in 2006, 13th in 1993). You’d have to go back 35 seasons for the last top 10 finish (6th in 1987).
Here we are having a serious debate whether Fran is good enough to be Iowa’s coach. Not even mentioning that Iowa has qualified for the NCAA tournament seven out of the last nine seasons. I doubt I’ll ever understand this fan base.
Too many people allow the fear of risk keep them from embracing change.
Just so we're clear, this is a WHOLE NEW WORLD we're living in, and with the right hire Iowa could easily get to the next level ...no reason we can't have at least Wisconsin level success, if not Michigan State.
And your opinion is correct. I want the Clowns to lose every football and basketball, Bs & Gs, they play.
Not only that but Fran was looking to rebuild a program/base from scratch. While the constant turnover of bringing in Transfers and Freshman can work (ISU last year and when Hoiberg took over), it is a very volatile approach (especially when you aren't a blue blood like Kentucky). It can easily go wrong from year-to-year.
Fran’s been here 12 years so a high school senior was in kindergarten. I wonder how many HR posters might have been too young to remember Alford or Lick and what we had to endure.
Fran’s not perfect but I haven’t been ashamed or embarrassed during his tenure. He’s had individual players perform at very high levels and give him high marks. He just comes off a B1G tournament title and there are some that want him fired? It’s an all or nothing world today I guess.
Fran’s not perfect but I haven’t been ashamed or embarrassed during his tenure. He’s had individual players perform at very high levels and give him high marks. He just comes off a B1G tournament title and there are some that want him fired? It’s an all or nothing world today I guess.
I agree the transfers can be a tough thing to depend on consistently, but with the new transfer rules and just the way players move around I think you almost have to work the transfer portal some. TJ does it well, but he also has a pretty good 2022 Freshman class, and if the people that predict things are correct he could have the best 3 player freshman class in ISU history in 2023. So it seems he may be working towards being a little less transfer dependent.
The success of Iowa basketball will never reach the level of a Wisconsin, a Michigan St, an Illinois, or Michigan until the administration can some how convince the students at Iowa that the basketball program is just as entertaining as the football program.
I blame Gary Barta and in some ways Fran for ignoring how important it is getting the student body involved in the game day activities.
I highly doubt that Iowa needs the revenue generated by the minuscule and by the way embarrassing amount of students that show up at Iowa's home games unless they are enticed by freebees or whatever else triggers their reasons to attend.
Whether it's the weather, lack of transportation, seating location, or just empathy toward the program, something needs to be done to make the basketball game day experience a happening like it is for home football games. Making the admission free to the students would be a good start and whether a change in seating location is included is up for debate.
In the 12 years that Fran has been at Iowa has he ever reached out to the students and tried to get them involved in the program? You can only look at Auburn and see how a head coach can get their students excited about going to their games and there's many other coaches that get their students excited about going to games. I look at Iowa....not so much.
He's still bringing in transfers. And the best recruit they had in quite a while his first year transferred out after one year with him.
Let's see how year 2 treat's TJ. He has a decent first year with some lucky draws at the end. I'll be this year things aren't quite as rosy.
Nope. Free bus rides, short walk. It has more to do with the entertainment options available than anything.
CHA is what 100-200 yards from the Kinnick parking lot? Kinnick doesn’t seem to have a problem getting students there. They’re basically across the street from one another.
There are certainly better locations than CHA, especially if existing building were no object. I think it’s just a convenient excuse.
Having said all of that, I’d be a big fan of a new arena. Not a smaller one either. Something like the Value City Arena or Kohl Center. I’d also be in favor if the location was moved closer to the river or downtown. The question on that, is where though?
I’d also move the students around the side behind the opposing bench around to the end of that side of the court. Michigan does it right.
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Right here. Rip down that eye-sore of a shitty mall. Looks tight, but the math works...make Capitol St ped only...like it is on the other side of the Pentacrest. Main entry and a plaza on the North, connect the South end to the parking ramp.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6592287,-91.5351247,273m/data=!3m1!1e3
Imagine the buzz and attendance if it were right downtown.
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That would be tight and I thought parking sucks at CHA as it is now. I doubt that parking garage alone would support a big game.
I’m sure they could come up with something, but regardless anywhere you move an arena closer to downtown, parking will be an issue. Running buses non stop to Hancher like they do for football could help or that’s not really all that far of a walk either.
It would be really awesome across from campus and Old Capitol.
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Who gives a hoot if you make the tourney but can’t win a game or two? (Or legitimately go deeper) That’s why we are tired of the underwhelming results. I guess I’m a jackal. I’m really just bummed Fran can’t deliver the goods. I like him well enough.
I don’t think you can chalk tourney performance up to ‘luck’. Something is lacking. I used to think it was recruiting but he had a top 5 NBA draft pick and couldn’t beat Richmond.
I used to argue against the ‘Fran is mediocre’ posters but I’ve lost hope we can be anything but in the grand scheme.
Fran’s teams seem to peak mid-season… this last season I had hope with the B1G win that a team of his was peaking at the right time for once. Rekt.
I guess I see it a little differently. As much as I’d like the Sweet 16 (or beyond), it ultimately is just one or two more wins. Nothing more, nothing less. You don’t bring home any championship or trophy for the Sweet 16. You basically play one extra weekend.
You think winning one or two games in the NCAA tournament defines a season? We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one too. You don’t think luck plays any role in the NCAA tournament? I shouldn’t touch on that, but there’s a ton of luck in the NCAA tournament from matchups, to upsets, and injuries. Was Richmond lucky that Keegan got hurt? Any luck in a new basketball that was bouncing out of the gym and Iowa couldn’t shoot with it? Iowa being an offensive minded team and all.
Iowa fans have a weird obsession with the Sweet 16. I never realized making the NCAA tournament only counted if you made the Sweet 16 too.
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No, is the football stadium in a bad location? It doesn't seem to effect the students flocking to football games and there's less then 4 tenths of a mile or less then 2000 feet between the two facilities. Location is just a lame excuse! Parking for both is right there, and buses can get to Carver just as easily as to Kinnick.
