The Problem with the De Jean Call

[Drinkin Buddy]

I've sat on this thought since the Minnesota game, but had a fun conversation with a fellow from Wisconsin this weekend (at the Packer game) so thought I'd share a perspective.

This fellow and I are long time baseball umpires. We've both been to pro school, have done camps, and have made it up to AAA ball.

The most critical thing you are taught as an umpire (official) is to NOT insert yourself into the game. Be as invisible as possible. Let the players play and the game play itself out.

So this fella and I were talking about the De Jean illegal fair catch call, and both quickly and immediately agreed on the following:

1. It's really a judgement call that should have remained on the field. That was a live play where everyone reacted accordingly.
2. Replay was never intended to afford rules experts to show how technically smart they are. And NEVER to overturn judgements.
3. Rule books are very complex. It's the job of the ON-FIELD officials, who have to manage the game, to interpret and deliver good or bad news throughout the game.
4. The guys in the booth often make these Wizard of Oz calls that put on-field officials in impossible positions.They are simply the man behind the curtain at some of the most crucial times.
5. Football needs to learn from baseball from an officiating standpoint. Be in position, stay out of the way, call strikes and outs, keep the game moving and BE CONSISTENT.

Was the guy in the booth on the De Jean call TECHNICALLY correct? Maybe. But he overruled the JUDGEMENT of the on field officials and hung them out to dry. He just needed to stay out of the way. Instead, he inserted himself into the game and forcefully impacted the outcome. HUGE NO NO.

On a parting note, my Wisconsin guy knows the guy in the booth who made that call and told me flat out that NO ONE wants to work with him. Also said the guy writes books and pontificates at clinics, but is really shunned when it comes to putting together field crews. He's just full of himself.

On Iowa. Beat the Vols!

Take all of that for what it's worth.

 

[kceasthawk]

I've sat on this thought since the Minnesota game, but had a fun conversation with a fellow from Wisconsin this weekend (at the Packer game) so thought I'd share a perspective.

This fellow and I are long time baseball umpires. We've both been to pro school, have done camps, and have made it up to AAA ball.

The most critical thing you are taught as an umpire (official) is to NOT insert yourself into the game. Be as invisible as possible. Let the players play and the game play itself out.

So this fella and I were talking about the De Jean illegal fair catch call, and both quickly and immediately agreed on the following:

1. It's really a judgement call that should have remained on the field. That was a live play where everyone reacted accordingly.
2. Replay was never intended to afford rules experts to show how technically smart they are. And NEVER to overturn judgements.
3. Rule books are very complex. It's the job of the ON-FIELD officials, who have to manage the game, to interpret and deliver good or bad news throughout the game.
4. The guys in the booth often make these Wizard of Oz calls that put on-field officials in impossible positions.They are simply the man behind the curtain at some of the most crucial times.
5. Football needs to learn from baseball from an officiating standpoint. Be in position, stay out of the way, call strikes and outs, keep the game moving and BE CONSISTENT.

Was the guy in the booth on the De Jean call TECHNICALLY correct? Maybe. But he overruled the JUDGEMENT of the on field officials and hung them out to dry. He just needed to stay out of the way. Instead, he inserted himself into the game and forcefully impacted the outcome. HUGE NO NO.

On a parting note, my Wisconsin guy knows the guy in the booth who made that call and told me flat out that NO ONE wants to work with him. Also said the guy writes books and pontificates at clinics, but is really shunned when it comes to putting together field crews. He's just full of himself.

On Iowa. Beat the Vols!

Take all of that for what it's worth.

Thanks for your insight. Pretty much summed up what I said that day. Its NOT the replay officials job to "reofficiate" calls on the field, and thats exactly what they did.....

 

[Madman_1]

The problem with the De Jean call is that it was WRONG!

 

[Birky]

Very well articulated.

I think it’s as simple as this, setting aside that it was a terrible decision to overturn.

Replay was never meant to officiate the game.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I've sat on this thought since the Minnesota game, but had a fun conversation with a fellow from Wisconsin this weekend (at the Packer game) so thought I'd share a perspective.

This fellow and I are long time baseball umpires. We've both been to pro school, have done camps, and have made it up to AAA ball.

The most critical thing you are taught as an umpire (official) is to NOT insert yourself into the game. Be as invisible as possible. Let the players play and the game play itself out.

So this fella and I were talking about the De Jean illegal fair catch call, and both quickly and immediately agreed on the following:

1. It's really a judgement call that should have remained on the field. That was a live play where everyone reacted accordingly.
2. Replay was never intended to afford rules experts to show how technically smart they are. And NEVER to overturn judgements.
3. Rule books are very complex. It's the job of the ON-FIELD officials, who have to manage the game, to interpret and deliver good or bad news throughout the game.
4. The guys in the booth often make these Wizard of Oz calls that put on-field officials in impossible positions.They are simply the man behind the curtain at some of the most crucial times.
5. Football needs to learn from baseball from an officiating standpoint. Be in position, stay out of the way, call strikes and outs, keep the game moving and BE CONSISTENT.

Was the guy in the booth on the De Jean call TECHNICALLY correct? Maybe. But he overruled the JUDGEMENT of the on field officials and hung them out to dry. He just needed to stay out of the way. Instead, he inserted himself into the game and forcefully impacted the outcome. HUGE NO NO.

On a parting note, my Wisconsin guy knows the guy in the booth who made that call and told me flat out that NO ONE wants to work with him. Also said the guy writes books and pontificates at clinics, but is really shunned when it comes to putting together field crews. He's just full of himself.

On Iowa. Beat the Vols!

Take all of that for what it's worth.

Yep. Well said.

 

[Slappy Pappy]

The official justification was "[it may not have been noticed on the field] but from the sky-view cam in the booth, it was clearly obvious."

Think about that for a second. The ENTIRE reason non-fair catch arm waving is illegal is because the kicking team would stop playing and therefore the receiving player would get a free runback. But the official admits that that didn't happen, and the kicking team in fact played on! It's completely asinine and demonstrates a total lack awareness.

 

[NI hawk]

Thanks for your insight. Pretty much summed up what I said that day. Its NOT the replay officials job to "reofficiate" calls on the field, and thats exactly what they did.....

Absolutely. Hope Ken Koester is happy. What a fing clown.

 

[pistachio1999]

How does one become a replay official? I bet its a big time good old boy network.

 

[83Hawk]

The official justification was "[it may not have been noticed on the field] but from the sky-view cam in the booth, it was clearly obvious."

Think about that for a second. The ENTIRE reason non-fair catch arm waving is illegal is because the kicking team would stop playing and therefore the receiving player would get a free runback. But the official admits that that didn't happen, and the kicking team in fact played on! It's completely asinine and demonstrates a total lack awareness.

If you are relying on a sky view (an angle not available to ANYONE on the field), then perhaps you shouldn't be overturning a judgement call.

That replay guy had an agenda of some sort, whatever it may be. I would bet $100 if DeJean had only gained 5 yards, it would not have been brought back. I would also bet that if he had returned the ball 20 yards then fumbled it away, the illegal fair catch would not have been called and the ball given back to Iowa.

But....what's done is done. The offense still only needed to move the ball about 25 yards to be in field goal range, with plenty of time to do it.....and couldn't.

 

[pistachio1999]

If you are relying on a sky view (an angle not available to ANYONE on the field), then perhaps you shouldn't be overturning a judgement call.

That replay guy had an agenda of some sort, whatever it may be. I would bet $100 if DeJean had only gained 5 yards, it would not have been brought back. I would also bet that if he had returned the ball 20 yards then fumbled it away, the illegal fair catch would not have been called and the ball given back to Iowa.

But....what's done is done. The offense still only needed to move the ball about 25 yards to be in field goal range, with plenty of time to do it.....and couldn't.

Well he contributed to Brian getting canned, so there was that plus, right?

 

[pistachio1999]

Which would you rather have? This call never happening and Brian remaining as OC, or this happening and Brian getting canned? Cause I am not sure the canning happens when it did without this call.

 

[LIV4GOD]

They replay officials already "admitted" their arrogance and error. They did that when they opined from the field point of view there was nothing wrong with Cooper's signal, but from the bird's eye view in the sky camera it looked like it could be waving.

Oh, the hubris. It only matters what the fair catch signal looks like from the field. It's not for birds or egomaniacal review refs looking from above. It's not about them. But the problem is that they've made it about them.

 

[iahawks10]

I've sat on this thought since the Minnesota game, but had a fun conversation with a fellow from Wisconsin this weekend (at the Packer game) so thought I'd share a perspective.

This fellow and I are long time baseball umpires. We've both been to pro school, have done camps, and have made it up to AAA ball.

The most critical thing you are taught as an umpire (official) is to NOT insert yourself into the game. Be as invisible as possible. Let the players play and the game play itself out.

So this fella and I were talking about the De Jean illegal fair catch call, and both quickly and immediately agreed on the following:

1. It's really a judgement call that should have remained on the field. That was a live play where everyone reacted accordingly.
2. Replay was never intended to afford rules experts to show how technically smart they are. And NEVER to overturn judgements.
3. Rule books are very complex. It's the job of the ON-FIELD officials, who have to manage the game, to interpret and deliver good or bad news throughout the game.
4. The guys in the booth often make these Wizard of Oz calls that put on-field officials in impossible positions.They are simply the man behind the curtain at some of the most crucial times.
5. Football needs to learn from baseball from an officiating standpoint. Be in position, stay out of the way, call strikes and outs, keep the game moving and BE CONSISTENT.

Was the guy in the booth on the De Jean call TECHNICALLY correct? Maybe. But he overruled the JUDGEMENT of the on field officials and hung them out to dry. He just needed to stay out of the way. Instead, he inserted himself into the game and forcefully impacted the outcome. HUGE NO NO.

On a parting note, my Wisconsin guy knows the guy in the booth who made that call and told me flat out that NO ONE wants to work with him. Also said the guy writes books and pontificates at clinics, but is really shunned when it comes to putting together field crews. He's just full of himself.

On Iowa. Beat the Vols!

Take all of that for what it's worth.

From what I found, the reply guy is from Wisconsin too and like you said, does clinincs/camps, books, etc in basketball and football. I have no doubt that your buddy from Wisconsin has ran into the replay guy (Ken Koester) a time or two if he’s also in the officiating business.

Good post.

 

[mvhomerl]

How long ago was this game? Does it suck yes, but it's over already. Let it go.

 

[Hendy hawk]

Which would you rather have? This call never happening and Brian remaining as OC, or this happening and Brian getting canned? Cause I am not sure the canning happens when it did without this call.

Brian was halfway out the door since he was not meeting the points criteria listed in the agreement with Barta.
Iowa was screwed by a guy with an agenda.

 

[OutbackBowl2017]

Brian was halfway out the door since he was not meeting the points criteria listed in the agreement with Barta.
Iowa was screwed by a guy with an agenda.

Awful hard to fire an 11-1 team. The last series put the final nail in the coffin on his employment with UI in any position and I can live with that. The only part of me that is pissed is for CDJ and the memory of his return erased from Hawkeye lore. Yes, we can still watch it and enjoy it but it’s a shame it’s not in the record books. Kinda like Iowa’s woodshed beating of the goofs by them not putting the 55-0 loss in their records for the final home game at HHH Dome.

 

[uihawk82]

Thanks for your insight. Pretty much summed up what I said that day. Its NOT the replay officials job to "reofficiate" calls on the field, and thats exactly what they did.....

Correct, replay checks to see if a guy is down before a fumble, out or in bounds on catches, almost all aspects of the game that can be visually SEEN. I was the first one to start the thread calling this one of the worst calls in history and my main reasoning was the thought that it had to do with INTENT of a player and the visual evidence was subjective.

 

[Ripcord280]

How long ago was this game? Does it suck yes, but it's over already. Let it go.

I am not sure we ever can/will let it go.

Remember, the JFK assassination just passed its 60th anniversary, and it refused to "go away." This infamous play has as much potential to be as controversial and interminible to Iowa football history as the JFK assassination is the 20th century American history with all the drama, controversey, and unresolved questions.

 

[mvhomerl]

I am not sure we ever can/will let it go.

Remember, the JFK assassination just passed its 60th anniversary, and it refused to "go away." This infamous play has as much potential to be as controversial and interminible to Iowa football history as the JFK assassination is the 20th century American history with all the drama, controversey, and unresolved questions.

JFK assassination and the punt return... same magnitude? Pretty much speechless at this point.

 

[leiserom]

As a HS basketball official one of the cardinal rules is let the game come to you. Dont go after the game. The replay guy did the second thing for this play

 

[NevadaHawk]

The Minnesota was stolen from us plain and simple.

 

[Ripcord280]

JFK assassination and the punt return... same magnitude? Pretty much speechless at this point.

it was meant to be a bit of hyperbole andto show that there is a lot of controversy/interest in the subject. sorry but I did not make that too clear.

 

[mvhomerl]

it was meant to be a bit of hyperbole andto show that there is a lot of controversy/interest in the subject. sorry but I did not make that too clear.

Not a problem, the call was wrong, it's over.

 

[BonzoFury]

There's a good reason overturned calls have to be "definitive proof". They shouldn't happen unless something very clear and obvious was missed. This was a ****ing travesty of that concept.

 

[Birky]

JFK assassination and the punt return... same magnitude? Pretty much speechless at this point.

I’m still pissed off about the 1990 Iowa v OSU game.

 

[swihawk]

How long ago was this game? Does it suck yes, but it's over already. Let it go.

Fans will complain for decades. Get used to that.

 

[mustang_hawk]

There's a good reason overturned calls have to be "definitive proof". They shouldn't happen unless something very clear and obvious was missed. This was a ****ing travesty of that concept.

The definitive proof aspect of in game video replay has been a joke for a number of years now. Maybe it’s just time to shit can the whole thing. College football survived for many decades without it.

 

[joelbc1]

Awful hard to fire an 11-1 team. The last series put the final nail in the coffin on his employment with UI in any position and I can live with that. The only part of me that is pissed is for CDJ and the memory of his return erased from Hawkeye lore. Yes, we can still watch it and enjoy it but it’s a shame it’s not in the record books. Kinda like Iowa’s woodshed beating of the goofs by them not putting the 55-0 loss in their records for the final home game at HHH Dome.

At least at Nebby you had to have 3 9-3s in a row to prove yourself unworthy..

 

[herkhatescy]

How long ago was this game? Does it suck yes, but it's over already. Let it go.

NEVER!!

 

[herkhatescy]

So, if a Minnesota player would of tackled DeJean would that of been a penalty for hitting a player who made a fair catch signal?

 

[TheRealHerky]

I’m never letting it go and if I ever get the chance I’m gonna kick that POS replay official square in the nuts.

 

[ZumaHawk]

That call was wrong on so many levels!

 

[NI hawk]

The Minnesota was stolen from us plain and simple.

Should be 9 straight over the Gophers. Pisses me off.

 

[NI hawk]

I’m never letting it go and if I ever get the chance I’m gonna kick that POS replay official square in the nuts.

I will definitely have words.

 

[kceasthawk]

The definitive proof aspect of in game video replay has been a joke for a number of years now. Maybe it’s just time to shit can the whole thing. College football survived for many decades without it.

This exactly. Even with replay they STILL get calls wrong, and it not only slows up the game way too much, but its allowed the refs to get lazy.

 

[BurgHawk87]

This exactly. Even with replay they STILL get calls wrong, and it not only slows up the game way too much, but its allowed the refs to get lazy.

You mean like AR's in professional soccer who are nothing more than a moving earpiece at this point? They don't call anything until the booth tells them to.

 

[kceasthawk]

You mean like AR's in professional soccer who are nothing more than a moving earpiece at this point? They don't call anything until the booth tells them to.

Don't know a thing about soccer, as I'm not a fan. Just know that replay in football especially has solved very little and slows the game to a snails pace at times....

 

[BurgHawk87]

Don't know a thing about soccer, as I'm not a fan. Just know that replay in football especially has solved very little and slows the game to a snails pace at times....

You nailed it for soccer as well.

 

[NI hawk]

Don't know a thing about soccer, as I'm not a fan. Just know that replay in football especially has solved very little and slows the game to a snails pace at times....

Intent was to overrule extremely evident bad calls. Not look from 20 different angles for five minutes and then still get call wrong. Iowa had two of the worst calls in college football this past season go against them.
And not to have replay officials determine games.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

When I officiated games in college, I wanted NO attention.