There is no genocide in Gaza

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

There's no genocide in Gaza.

“How do I know? Let's dive into the updated numbers:

To be fair, I won’t take numbers from the IDF or Hamas, but rely on UN and World Factbook data. Their data indicates that there are 30K total deaths, comprising 17K civilians and 13K Hamas fighters.

This reflects a combatant-civilian ratio of 1:1.3, already low compared to most urban wars where civilian casualties exceed 90%. Here's the really cool part - the ratio is even lower considering non-war-related deaths.

Baseline Death Rate:

The World Factbook estimates a death rate of 3 per 1,000 people annually in Gaza. With a population of approximately 2.1M, this translates to about 6,300 deaths per year from non-war-related causes.

You know what? Let's make a time Frame Adjustment.
From Oct 7th to Feb 29th (4.8 months), the non-war-related deaths are approximately:

6,300 deaths/year × 4.8 / 12 months = 2,520 deaths.

Now, let's make a demographic Adjustment. Assuming all 2,520 non-war-related deaths are civilians, we get:

30K total deaths − 2,520 non-war-related deaths = 27,480 war-related deaths.

Revised civilian deaths:

30K total deaths − 13K militant deaths − 2,520 non-war-related deaths = 14,480 war-related civilian deaths.

Final Ratio:

13,000 / 14,480 = 1:1.11.

This means that for every Hamas fighter killed, only 1.11 civilians are killed (!!). The best record in urban warfare.

Genocide? think again.

With 14,480 civilian deaths over 243 days of the war (Average of 59/day), Gaza's population continues to grow with 56,614 births per year (155/day). This population growth, averaging 155 new babies daily, starkly contradicts claims of genocide.

Genocide aims to destroy a group, not see it expand. The data clearly shows that the situation in Gaza is far from being genocide. On the contrary, it proves that the IDF is the most moral and professional army in human history.”

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

It is truly incredible the lengths the Israelis are going to in order to limit civilian casualties. They should be commended.

 

[BelemNole]

Is there any topic you won't go full stupid on?

They blew up a UN school today for fuqs sake.

Gaza war: Witnesses tell of 'unimaginable' shelter air strike

Dozens of people are reported to have been killed in the strike which Israel says targeted Hamas.

www.bbc.com

 

[millah_22]

Is there any topic you won't go full stupid on?

They blew up a UN school today for fuqs sake.

Gaza war: Witnesses tell of 'unimaginable' shelter air strike

Dozens of people are reported to have been killed in the strike which Israel says targeted Hamas.

www.bbc.com

And they should be commended.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Is there any topic you won't go full stupid on?

They blew up a UN school today for fuqs sake.

Gaza war: Witnesses tell of 'unimaginable' shelter air strike

Dozens of people are reported to have been killed in the strike which Israel says targeted Hamas.

www.bbc.com

Was Hamas hiding in there? They are at war and if Hamas is hiding in there that is a war crime as defined by the UN. Shame on Hamas.

 

[BelemNole]

Was Hamas hiding in there? They are at war and if Hamas is hiding in there that is a war crime as defined by the UN. Shame on Hamas.

Right, Hamas was hiding under every woman and child Israel blew to pieces, just ask them.

 

[seminole97]

Was Hamas hiding in there?

He won’t answer that question.

Anti-terror raid reveals weapons cache in Gaza schools​

Among the findings were grenades, various firearms, RPG missiles, explosives, and a range of other military-grade equipment​

Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from the 401st Brigade, alongside the 13th Fleet fighters, conducted a targeted raid on schools in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood of Gaza City.

The operation, based on actionable intelligence, uncovered a shocking arsenal of weapons and explosives, turning educational institutions into hubs of terrorist activity.

During the raid, the forces neutralized terrorists who were hiding on the school compounds. Additionally, the IDF Unit 504's field investigators transferred dozens of terrorists for further interrogation.

The schools in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood were discovered to be harboring an extensive array of weaponry. Among the findings were grenades, various firearms, RPG missiles, explosives, and a range of other military-grade equipment.

 

[BelemNole]

He won’t answer that question.

Anti-terror raid reveals weapons cache in Gaza schools​

Among the findings were grenades, various firearms, RPG missiles, explosives, and a range of other military-grade equipment​

Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from the 401st Brigade, alongside the 13th Fleet fighters, conducted a targeted raid on schools in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood of Gaza City.

The operation, based on actionable intelligence, uncovered a shocking arsenal of weapons and explosives, turning educational institutions into hubs of terrorist activity.

During the raid, the forces neutralized terrorists who were hiding on the school compounds. Additionally, the IDF Unit 504's field investigators transferred dozens of terrorists for further interrogation.

The schools in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood were discovered to be harboring an extensive array of weaponry. Among the findings were grenades, various firearms, RPG missiles, explosives, and a range of other military-grade equipment.

Isn't it interesting how they can always go in and find weapons after they blow the shit out of the kids but can't ever seem to go in a raid the places ahead of time?
Convenient, isn't it?

 

[alaskanseminole]

Well, as long as Ido Halbany says so.

 

[BelemNole]

It is truly incredible the lengths the Israelis are going to in order to limit civilian casualties. They should be commended.

You've said a LOT of stupid shit this week, but this might be the dumbest. Congrats?

 

[Aardvark86]

View embedded media

There's no genocide in Gaza.

“How do I know? Let's dive into the updated numbers:

To be fair, I won’t take numbers from the IDF or Hamas, but rely on UN and World Factbook data. Their data indicates that there are 30K total deaths, comprising 17K civilians and 13K Hamas fighters.

This reflects a combatant-civilian ratio of 1:1.3, already low compared to most urban wars where civilian casualties exceed 90%. Here's the really cool part - the ratio is even lower considering non-war-related deaths.

Baseline Death Rate:

The World Factbook estimates a death rate of 3 per 1,000 people annually in Gaza. With a population of approximately 2.1M, this translates to about 6,300 deaths per year from non-war-related causes.

You know what? Let's make a time Frame Adjustment.
From Oct 7th to Feb 29th (4.8 months), the non-war-related deaths are approximately:

6,300 deaths/year × 4.8 / 12 months = 2,520 deaths.

Now, let's make a demographic Adjustment. Assuming all 2,520 non-war-related deaths are civilians, we get:

30K total deaths − 2,520 non-war-related deaths = 27,480 war-related deaths.

Revised civilian deaths:

30K total deaths − 13K militant deaths − 2,520 non-war-related deaths = 14,480 war-related civilian deaths.

Final Ratio:

13,000 / 14,480 = 1:1.11.

This means that for every Hamas fighter killed, only 1.11 civilians are killed (!!). The best record in urban warfare.

Genocide? think again.

With 14,480 civilian deaths over 243 days of the war (Average of 59/day), Gaza's population continues to grow with 56,614 births per year (155/day). This population growth, averaging 155 new babies daily, starkly contradicts claims of genocide.

Genocide aims to destroy a group, not see it expand. The data clearly shows that the situation in Gaza is far from being genocide. On the contrary, it proves that the IDF is the most moral and professional army in human history.”

comparator data re: ratios for other conflicts?

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Is there any topic you won't go full stupid on?

They blew up a UN school today for fuqs sake.

Gaza war: Witnesses tell of 'unimaginable' shelter air strike

Dozens of people are reported to have been killed in the strike which Israel says targeted Hamas.

www.bbc.com

I would blame Hamas, they’re just fine putting women & children into known harms way. We should support Israel getting rid of Hamas so none of this is necessary in the future.

 

[Aardvark86]

comparator data re: ratios for other conflicts?

Ah, here we are:

Civilian casualty ratio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Either way, across this relatively broader (and more conservative) range of general modern conflict estimates, the ratio in Gaza is still, at worst, pretty ordinary. Perhaps most interestingly and most hilariously, the unadjusted Gaza 1.3:1 ratio is less than the 2:1 ratio w/r/t Israeli casualties on 10/7.

 

[alaskanseminole]

In all seriousness, the word genocide sure does get tossed around a lot. It makes me wonder if people actually understand what the word means.


Genocide and excessive collateral damage/civilian casualties are both tragic and involve causing harm to civilian populations, but they differ significantly in intent and legal definitions.

Genocide is the intentional and systematic destruction of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. It is characterized by deliberate actions aimed at exterminating a specific group, including killing its members, causing them serious harm, and imposing life-threatening conditions. The key element of genocide is the intent to destroy the group in whole or in part.

Excessive collateral damage and civilian casualties, on the other hand, occur as a byproduct of military operations. These terms describe unintended harm to civilians and their property that exceeds what is considered acceptable under international humanitarian law. While the harm is significant, the key difference is the lack of intent; the primary objective is not to target civilians but rather to achieve military goals, with civilian harm being an unfortunate consequence.

Maybe WWJD needs to create a poll asking HROT which one they think Israel is responsible for (or none of the above, if that's how a person feels). IMO, the FACT wiping the Jews off the face of the earth is part of Hamas' charter makes that one an easy choice. Not so certain about Israel, though.

Note: We can even discuss disproportionality, but genocide?

 

[seminole97]

Well, as long as Ido Halbany says so.

Maybe Belem would believe it if UNWRA said it.

Let’s see:

UNRWA condemns placement of rockets, for a second time, in one of its schools

Probably never did it again. I’d bet Belem’s life on it.

 

[Huey Grey]

Was Hamas hiding in there? They are at war and if Hamas is hiding in there that is a war crime as defined by the UN. Shame on Hamas.

Shame on both of them is the real takeaway.

 

[DooBi]

Right, Hamas was hiding under every woman and child Israel blew to pieces, just ask them.

Didn't read the article?

 

[alaskanseminole]

Maybe Belem would believe it if UNWRA said it.

Let’s see:

UNRWA condemns placement of rockets, for a second time, in one of its schools

Probably never did it again. I’d bet Belem’s life on it.

My point is, this board gets tiresome when the only "news source" seems to be some random person I've never actually heard of. Maybe everyone knows Ido Halbany, but I've never heard of this guy.

 

[Aardvark86]

Shame on both of them is the real takeaway.

Indeed, but, if i may say so, with all of the risks of inferring tone from electrons running across a computer screen, you sound surprised...

 

[Aardvark86]

My point is, this board gets tiresome when the only "news source" seems to be some random person I've never actually heard of. Maybe everyone knows Ido Halbany, but I've never heard of this guy.

i haven't either, but i believe he at least claimed to be citing un data. certainly a link might have helped.

 

[seminole97]

My point is, this board gets tiresome when the only "news source" seems to be some random person I've never actually heard of. Maybe everyone knows Ido Halbany, but I've never heard of this guy.

Is it ‘news’?
He just crunched publicly available numbers.

 

[McLovin32]

My point is, this board gets tiresome when the only "news source" seems to be some random person I've never actually heard of. Maybe everyone knows Ido Halbany, but I've never heard of this guy.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[BelemNole]

I would blame Hamas, they’re just fine putting women & children into known harms way. We should support Israel getting rid of Hamas so none of this is necessary in the future.

Why not blame both? Both are responsible.

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

My point is, this board gets tiresome when the only "news source" seems to be some random person I've never actually heard of. Maybe everyone knows Ido Halbany, but I've never heard of this guy.

that's phenomenally fu**kupstic main source of news. And since his fearless leader loves his far right and russian disinformation, he really has no logical clue what the hell is going on in the world. He's kind of like OiT except he has an X account. And seminole97 posts stuff but doesn't say where it comes from, much of which seems to come from Qanon and/or russian disinformation sources.

 

[BelemNole]

Maybe Belem would believe it if UNWRA said it.

Let’s see:

UNRWA condemns placement of rockets, for a second time, in one of its schools

Probably never did it again. I’d bet Belem’s life on it.

You cited a story from 2014?
Did I say that Hamas never placed munitions in public facilities or did I say that Israel claimed that it did every time they blew up civilians?

 

[lonestar50]

He won’t answer that question.

Anti-terror raid reveals weapons cache in Gaza schools​

Among the findings were grenades, various firearms, RPG missiles, explosives, and a range of other military-grade equipment​

Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from the 401st Brigade, alongside the 13th Fleet fighters, conducted a targeted raid on schools in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood of Gaza City.

The operation, based on actionable intelligence, uncovered a shocking arsenal of weapons and explosives, turning educational institutions into hubs of terrorist activity.

During the raid, the forces neutralized terrorists who were hiding on the school compounds. Additionally, the IDF Unit 504's field investigators transferred dozens of terrorists for further interrogation.

The schools in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood were discovered to be harboring an extensive array of weaponry. Among the findings were grenades, various firearms, RPG missiles, explosives, and a range of other military-grade equipment.

How can Gaza schools have a military grade weapons cache stockpiled there and not one school shooting. And yet in America where we don't stockpile weapons in schools shootings happen seemingly every week.

Just trying to combine an Israeli-Hamas thread and mix in a gun control-2nd Amendment thread. It could possibly be the worst thread on here in years!

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Why not blame both? Both are responsible.

Israel is responsible for Oct. 7th???

 

[seminole97]

You cited a story from 2014?

Pick another year in the last 20 and odds are I can provide you article detailing jihadists hiding weapons in schools/mosques.
It isn’t as novel as a prospect as you seem to think.

Did I say that Hamas never placed munitions in public facilities

You said this:

They blew up a UN school today for fuqs sake.

So I provided you evidence of the UN complaining about Hamas hiding weapons in their schools.

What’s your next pivot to avoid acknowledging the reality that jihadists deliberately put civilians at risk?

 

[Scruddy]

If they wanted to burn Palestine and every citizen in The country to the ground they're 100% justified in doing so.

 

[BelemNole]

Pick another year in the last 20 and odds are I can provide you article detailing jihadists hiding weapons in schools/mosques.
It isn’t as novel as a prospect as you seem to think.



You said this:



So I provided you evidence of the UN complaining about Hamas hiding weapons in their schools.

What’s your next pivot to avoid acknowledging the reality that jihadists deliberately put civilians at risk?

Your proof that every time Israel kills civilians is an article from a decade ago? Brilliant.
I have acknowledged countless times that hamas is bad and does bad things, are your arguments so weak that you have to continue to build straw men?
Yes, they put weapons in some civilian spaces. That doesn't mean that Israel should be free to carpet bomb all of gaza.

 

[BelemNole]

Israel is responsible for Oct. 7th???

You too, are your arguments to weak you have to rely on straw men?

 

[Colonoscopy]

I think the problem with some of the definitions of genocide is that there is a "technically that's genocide" argument that in no way compares to what most people think of as genocide.

It would be like claiming all sexual assaults were created equal. Obviously there are levels of.

A slap on the butt isn't in the same ballpark as rape, obviously.

And so in the technical -- I'm talking international law -- sense, the same applies.

Of course colloquially we use the word quite a bit differently than this legal definition. (or what it allows)

 

[alaskanseminole]

that's phenomenally fu**kupstic main source of news. And since his fearless leader loves his far right and russian disinformation, he really has no logical clue what the hell is going on in the world. He's kind of like OiT except he has an X account. And seminole97 posts stuff but doesn't say where it comes from, much of which seems to come from Qanon and/or russian disinformation sources.

Well, I'd listen to seminole97 100x before I'd listed to phenomenally, so there's that.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

You too, are your arguments to weak you have to rely on straw men?

Uh……..how is what I said a straw-man argument?

You’re losing it Belem.

 

[Here_4_a_Day]

Is there any topic you won't go full stupid on?

They blew up a UN school today for fuqs sake.

Gaza war: Witnesses tell of 'unimaginable' shelter air strike

Dozens of people are reported to have been killed in the strike which Israel says targeted Hamas.

www.bbc.com

Filled with terrorists….

 

[IACub]

Bad people on both sides.

 

[seminole97]

Your proof that every time Israel kills civilians is an article from a decade ago? Brilliant.

No, that’s proof Hamas stockpiles weapons in schools, you know, the place Israel bombed.

I have acknowledged countless times that hamas is bad and does bad things, are your arguments so weak that you have to continue to build straw men?

What strawman?
The premise of your complaint is that Israel shouldn’t target schools even if Hamas uses them to store weapons, right?

Yes, they put weapons in some civilian spaces. That doesn't mean that Israel should be free to carpet bomb all of gaza.

Should they be free to bomb the ‘civilian spaces’ that Hamas utilizes?
Or should Hamas utilization of ‘civilian spaces’ give them immunity to the IDF?

 

[Here_4_a_Day]

Bad people on both sides.

No.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

@BelemNole getting bitchslapped by @seminole97 what’s new?

 

[BelemNole]

No, that’s proof Hamas stockpiles weapons in schools, you know, the place Israel bombed.



What strawman?
The premise of your complaint is that Israel shouldn’t target schools even if Hamas uses them to store weapons, right?



Should they be free to bomb the ‘civilian spaces’ that Hamas utilizes?
Or should Hamas utilization of ‘civilian spaces’ give them immunity to the IDF?

So because hamas has had weapons in hospitals before all hospitals are free game? All schools?
It really is amazing how differently you view this conflict than others.

The IDF controls all of Gaza, they don't need to bomb the shit out of hospitals and schools. If they think there are fighters or weapons somewhere, go in and get them.