This is a defining moment in US history. Time to declare sides- America or Russia
- Thread starter THE_DEVIL
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FAR less was "known" than you realize, at the time. Pieces were known, for sure, but there was no solid 'narrative' to put the facts together. That takes time. And evidence gathering.
It's like people blaming the cops for the last 7 killings of a serial murderer,when they were just gathering evidence and trying to find someone to tie the murders to. We live in a society of laws, and under Rule of Law; the Obama administration did what it could, at the time, within that framework. If you WANT a totalitarian regime that can monitor everyone's whereabouts, and phone calls, and finances 24/7....then, yeah....we could have prevented this.
Oh for sure GOP would have crapped bricks. I get your point of "at the time" but if were gonna scream accountability for Trump here it still means under Obama's admin this stuff shouldn't have happened! Just because we weren't fully aware doesnt make it ok.. Means there were several holes. I also agree though that you wont stop everything and stuff is going to happen! Its not easy..
Anyone can be indicted. Most are for obstruction and Mueller threatening IRS and life imprisonment. Most will make up something to save their hide.
Clinging to Collusion: Why Evidence Will Probably Never Be Produced in the Indictments of ‘Russian Agents’
July 14, 2018
The indictment of 12 Russian ‘agents,’ which included no collusion with Trump’s team, is essentially a political and not legal document because it is almost certain the U.S. government will never have to present any evidence in court, reports Joe Lauria.
By Joe Lauria
Special to Consortium News
Charges against 12 Russian intelligence agents for allegedly hacking emails from the Democratic Party during the 2016 presidential election were announced by the U.S. Justice Department on Friday at the very moment President Donald Trump was meeting Queen Elizabeth II at Windsor Castle and just days before a summit between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin in Helsinki.
A central claim of Russia-gate has been that the Russian government with help from the Trump campaign stole emails from the Democratic Party and the Hillary Clinton campaign and then gave those emails to WikiLeaks for publication to damage Clinton’s quest for the White House.
Until Friday however, the investigation into the allegations had produced no formal indictment of Russian government interference in the election. Like previous U.S. government accusations against Russia for alleged election meddling, the indictment makes assertions without providing evidence. Indictments do not need to show evidence and under U.S. law, indictments are not considered evidence. And it is highly unlikely that the government will ever have to produce any evidence in court.
Friday’s indictments do not include any charges against Trump campaign members for allegedly colluding with the Russian government to carry out the hacks. That has been at the core of allegations swirling in U.S. media for two years. If the alleged co-conspirators “known” to the DOJ were on the Trump team, the indictments do not say. There is only a hint that “unknown” persons might be.
In announcing the indictments at a press conference Friday, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said: “The conspirators corresponded with several Americans during the course of the conspiracy through the internet. There’s no allegation in this indictment that the Americans knew they were corresponding with Russian intelligence officers.”
The indictment alleges that Russian agents, posing as Guccifer 2.0, communicated on Aug. 15, 2016 with “a person who was in regular contact with senior members” of the Trump campaign, mostly like advisor Roger Stone, who has spoken about communicating with Guccifer 2.0. The indictment says Guccifer offered to “help u anyhow,” apparently indicating that Stone did want Guccifer 2.0’s help.
Clinging to ‘Collusion’
Balance:
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/07/...roduced-in-the-indictments-of-russian-agents/
Fun Op Ed, but if Putin wants to find out what evidence we have, and where we got it, he'll serve up one of those names in short order to do it.
WIth the recent arrest of Buttina, he may have done just that.
What happened to JFK when he had back channel discussions with Kruschev? The Joint Chiefs of Staff were telling him to go f himself.
Again, no.
Our investigative teams still have to follow Rule of Law. Putting blame on Obama, when minimal info was known, compared to now, when MANY things are now known, is just nonsense.
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Its not nonsense. Let's just agree to end this side discussion now. I mean I'm sure you think we could have done more to prevent 9/11 but hell if its Obama how dare anyone criticize him and think we could have done more..
Sure, feel free to wave it at any time.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/mh17-crash-hear-moment-russian-3877080
Hey...if you can produce that Presidential Daily Briefing that says "Putin wants to put Trump in the WH by flooding social media with fake accounts, illegally funneling money thru the NRA, hacking the DNC and coordinating with the Trump campaign"....I'm all ears, here.
But the fact remains...we HAD a PDB on AQ planning attacks on us. I'm unaware of any specific details during the Obama administration on that. And campaigns WERE warned about cyber-attacks,etc. Not a lot else to do, UNLESS you want the current administration (who is "on one side") to actively take a role in both campaigns....
It is also my understanding that the WH did NOT sign off on this statement....Looks like Coats is not backing down. Hot off the presses:
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I've been seeing chatter in national media circles that the adminstration's public relations and media folks are freaking out, as there is no way to spin any of this in a rational, positive way.
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While partially true about Obama, even he never had anywhere near a foreign blunder close to the egg Trump just laid. Holy hell.
Might end up being one of the biggest foreign blunders in recent times.
Agreed. 100%.. and for any fellow conservative to pretend like we wouldn't have flown off the em effing handle if this was Obama would be the biggest lie in history..today hurts!
Um McConell is almost as much to blame as obama. Our country might be worse off today if Obama did something about Russia and trump.
Can you imagine what trump would have done if that’s how he had lost. I’m sure there would have been guns involved.
Equating Russian trolls on the internet with 9/11 is insulting to the victims of 9/11.
I appreciate your candor and ability to call it like it is ... that's more of what we need from both sides.
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One can make a compelling argument that subverting the US fair and open election system by a foreign adversary is actually a much larger attack on the US than planes flown into buildings.
THERE'S NOTHING NEW ABOUT THIS. IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOREVER, ON BOTH SIDES.
We do it, they do it.
The question is, was Trump involved helping Russia "influence" the election? Nothing that proves that has come to light, and saying, "I don't know why they would..." is nothing more than a personal opinion, not treason.
You people are completely unhinged.
The President literally stood next to the President of Russia ( A named enemy to the State) and said he supported Putin's opinion over the leaders of the Intelligence community.
That is what has gotten everyone upset. Collusion(Conspiracy) is a different argument. Today's outrage has nothing to do with collusion. It's about Trump being pussy whipped by Putin.
He's not allowed to be of the opinion that, after listening to both sides, he hasn't found any reason why Putin would have wanted to do that?
Again, if you're trying to forge a new way forward with Russia, what possible good would it do to lecture Putin in response to that reporter's question?
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I'm sorry you are on the wrong side of history. It's going to suck for you 10, 15 years from now, when you realize what an idiot you've been. Ts and Ps.
It won’t suck for them. Cons have lived their entire lives on the wrong side of history. Some lib will restore sanity and Cons will claim credit. It’s how it always works in America.
No it doesn't.
You can get an indictment on a ham sandwich.
Proving it in court is something else entirely.
All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Nixon is THE reason Mueller's job currently exists, cupcake.
Oh man Tradition, emotionally defending an Orange surrender monkey who debased himself in front of a dictator and former KGB agent. Nixon and Regean both turned over in their graves.
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