This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...
- Thread starter Nole Lou
- Start date
I'd add: I'm willing to bet we'll have a shiny new military base in Ukraine within 10 years. It may eventually become as important as Germany has been.
I think it was back during hurricane Opal my brother welded a Honda Accord muffler to the generator. HUGE difference...
"Some Tu-141s and similar Tu-143s were in storage in Ukraine when Russian troops invaded the country in 2014. Ukrainian technicians began pulling the 30-year-old drones from warehouses and reconditioning them. Russian-backed separatists shot down at least two Tu-143s over eastern Ukraine in 2014.
The Ukrainian air force operates a handful of manned Sukhoi Su-24 bombers but can’t afford to lose them on a dangerous deep strike hundreds of miles inside Russian territory.
The Tu-141 is an obvious substitute. It’s fast—600 miles per hour—and, if it’s anything like the Model 147, can fly as high as 20,000 feet or as low as treetop height. Its inertial navigation system can keep it within a few miles of its planned course over a distance of more than a thousand miles. It recovers by cutting its engine and popping a parachute.
Remove the cameras and add explosives, and the Tu-141 becomes a cruise missile rather than a recon drone. It was apparent as early as March that the Ukrainian air force had modified some of its Tu-141s for one-way suicide missions. A Tu-141 that went off course and crashed in Croatia on March 10 reportedly had a bomb aboard."
The Ukrainians this summer sent at least two Tu-143s on raids in or near Kursk, in western Russia, 50 miles from Ukraine. Russian air-defenses shot down both drones. This morning, the drones finally got through.
It’s hard to say how many Tu-141s and Tu-143s Ukraine has left. If any remain, expect more deep strikes targeting Russian bomber bases or other strategic targets."
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I stated that the being in a proxy war isn't its primary motive. It is to defend another country with democratic principles against a country that is violating war crimes and atrocities on a daily basis. The biggest thing is we are deterring the possibility of another war of Russia attacking one of the Nato countries without risking our troops. On your basis its a proxy war, to me it is taking care of 2 birds with 1 stone. They can both be factual at the same time. Where would Russia be if it didn't have the threat of nukes. The threat of nukes is the only reason this war isn't over yet. If Ukraine started going after infrastructure like Russia is, Russia would have folded up like a wet blanket long ago.
If you don't think its appropriate to assist Ukraine, I don't know what to say. Also though, lets not undermine the training and soldiers of Ukraine. You can say they have been given decent equipment, but they are taking the Russian soldiers to the woodshed with a much smaller army.
FWIW
"Ongoing speculations in Moscow identify a number of former generals and KGB officials preparing to impeach Russian President Vladimir Putin, armed with the goal to put a stop to the conflict in Ukraine, which is increasingly recognised as a geopolitical miscalculation and, most all, an economic disaster.
According to numerous commentators and local media sources, Putin’s former employer, the Russian security service FSB, is so dissatisfied with the lack of military progress in Ukraine that it has sought out a number of generals and former army officers.
Former FSB officers who are involved in Russian politics, known as the ‘Siloviki,’ are believed to be campaigning hard to replace Putin, along with former officers from the GRU, KGB, FSO, and other Russian intelligence agencies."
"Ongoing speculations in Moscow identify a number of former generals and KGB officials preparing to impeach Russian President Vladimir Putin, armed with the goal to put a stop to the conflict in Ukraine, which is increasingly recognised as a geopolitical miscalculation and, most all, an economic disaster.
According to numerous commentators and local media sources, Putin’s former employer, the Russian security service FSB, is so dissatisfied with the lack of military progress in Ukraine that it has sought out a number of generals and former army officers.
Former FSB officers who are involved in Russian politics, known as the ‘Siloviki,’ are believed to be campaigning hard to replace Putin, along with former officers from the GRU, KGB, FSO, and other Russian intelligence agencies."
I think you're talking about Ukraine, but I'm talking about the neocons who pushed a foreign policy that got us here.
I used to take the view they were being naive/stupid with the coup in Ukraine and efforts to push NATO further east over the objections of over NATO members (France and Germany being the biggies, but by no means alone).
But if you take the view that a proxy war was the goal all along, then the steps taken make a lot more sense.
My frustration stems from the view this was ginned up unnecessarily, and I truly wish it had never happened.
That having been said, I think it would be even more immoral to have created this situation, and then leave Ukraine to Russia's tender mercies.
I wouldn't stop supporting Ukraine, but that support isn't a blank check, and the idea we're just going to be a witness to when Ukraine and Russia end this war is kind of silly.
"Russian artillery piece, destroyed somewhere along the long front."
Seminole there are always precursors to any situation. You think currently China doesn't wish Taiwan wasn't allowed to essentially become independent and rule on its own? It doesn't make it right that Russia thinks it can just come in and take what they think is theirs. This war will likely be over in the next 6 months. You claim you want to support Ukraine but you don't support a blank check. Ok, how much money do you think is reasonable to continue to support? The other thing is what if there is only a marginal amount more needed to win the war but you have hit your threshold, you would be done.
We wouldn't be in this situation if Russia didn't attack Ukraine. Ukraine has better leadership now than the government that was overthrown, so I am not sure what your concerns are with that. The fact that we may end up with a another future partner an ally seems to be a good situation don't you think?
I guess I was thinking the bogeyman we have experienced (at least in my memory) consisted of religious radicals/fanatics who believe their version of the "truth" subjugates/destroys secular government.
At the time, this was probably a prudent measure.
With the continued bombardment of civilian infrastructure, it may need to be revisited...
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I would respectfully ask you to stop engaging with this particular poster on this issue. He is either pro-Russia or a determined contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian. The ongoing "debate" (which isn't a debate as he will not budge on his wildly unpopular and mostly misinformed positions) only serves to clutter this otherwise interesting and informative thread.
Thanks.
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I was going to do the EXACT same thing. He long ago joined the ranks of ingored comrades Warrior Poet31 and Red Runney, and well as a host of racists and MAGAts that I just couldn't take anymore.
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Put him on ignore on Page 50, and as long as others don't engage (AHEM Bunsen) it makes for a MUCH better reading experience.
Waking up to the grift. Lol at the EU borrowing money to loan to Z.
www.reuters.com
Hungary vetoes EU aid for Ukraine, bloc delays decision on funds for Budapest
Hungary vetoed an 18 billion euro ($19 bln) loan to Ukraine from the European Union on Tuesday as its row with the bloc over undermining democracy rumbled on and the other 26 member states delayed a decision on releasing billions of aid to Budapest.
www.reuters.com
Strikes on Russian air bases anger Russian military bloggers and ‘spoil’ attack on Ukraine – ISW
Russia’s pro-war community was so angry with the strikes on strategic Russia’s air bases that the it gave only a muted welcome to latest wave of missile strikes on Ukrainian infrastructure on Dec. 5, U.S. think tank the Institute of the Study of War has said.
Attacks on Russian air bases will have psychological impact- Western officials
Attacks on airfields deep inside Russia will have struck a powerful psychological blow, senior Western officials said on Tuesday, saying it meant Moscow would have to think much more carefully about how to keep its long-range bombers safe. The Engels air base, near the city of Saratov and at...
Fake? If not - WOW! (Only 1 fire in other videos.)
And some daylight video.
"But it's really burning in Kursk, Russia, that nothing happened. 🤔 is that maybe a beacon for the runway?"
And some daylight video.
"But it's really burning in Kursk, Russia, that nothing happened. 🤔 is that maybe a beacon for the runway?"
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"Action (1) our reconnaissance team has arrived on the position of the in the region of #Zaporozhye "
I don't mean 'blank check' in a literal sense of unlimited dollars, but in the rhetorical sense of unlimited aims.
When I hear 'blank check' in diplomatic terms I immediately think of WW1 and Austria's sense that the Kaiser was providing unlimited support Austria:
Below is the text of the telegram sent by the German Chancellor, Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg, to the German Ambassador at Vienna.
The telegram effectively offered Austria-Hungary a 'blank cheque' in terms of German support for whatever action Austria-Hungary chose to take in punishing Serbia
Notably, there was a change in language used by SoS Blinken just yesterday.
Blinken in August 2022:
In my remarks to the Crimea Platform Summit, I urged the international community to keep raising the costs and pressure on President Putin and his enablers until all Russian troops leave Ukraine. Crimea is Ukraine. That was our position in 2014, and it remains in 2022.
Yesterday:
Secretary Antony J. Blinken With Editor in Chief Matt Murray At The Wall Street Journal CEO Council Summit
SECRETARY BLINKEN: Our focus is on continuing to do what we’ve been doing, which is to make sure that Ukraine has in its hands what it needs to defend itself, what it needs to push back against the Russian aggression, to take back territory that’s been seized from it since February 24th, to make sure as well that it has the support economically and on a humanitarian basis to withstand what’s happening in the country every single day. That’s our focus.
Maybe it's nothing, but that seems like a notable distinction, not an offhand comment.
Don't read too much into it. That is actually not "new" news (at least here [Germany]).
The procurement of the Bundeswehr (the "BAAINBw" - Bundesamt für Ausrüstung, Informationstechnik und Nutzung der Bundeswehr) is just a total **** up. They are simply not able to spend all that money.
Our minister of defense is also not the best suited for the job (to put it mildly). But at least she is moving stuff in the right direction, though not with the right speed.
The money has been agreed upon and is through the Bundestag. It is bookmarked for the Bundeswehr and can't be used otherwise. So that is not weaseling out, just incompetence.
Polish S-125 in Ukrainian service. Probably as useful as HAWK, and a bit more mobile too. Poland had 20 battalions worth of these some 20 years ago. Some were scrapped AFAIK, some probably stored, and we had 6 (17 batteries) in active service in 2021, all modernized and mounted on T-55 chassis. Still, at least the supply of missiles should be quite hefty, I hope Ukrainians will put them to good use.
Rumor at the moment is that we sent a complete battalion (3 batteries). I can easily see more being sent in the future, especially if the Patriot deal with Germany is finalized one way or another. Here's a very good article about PL S-125 modernization if anyone's interested - in Polish, but google translate works fine.
Rumor at the moment is that we sent a complete battalion (3 batteries). I can easily see more being sent in the future, especially if the Patriot deal with Germany is finalized one way or another. Here's a very good article about PL S-125 modernization if anyone's interested - in Polish, but google translate works fine.
I keep coming back to this video. A few months ago this wouldn't have made the airwaves. Now a lot of doubt and criticism is seeping into mainstream Russian media. Putin's grip is weakening.
Look at Orban trying to change horses in the middle of the race.
Engaging with him only makes it worse. Then those of us who have him on ignore get to see that you are quoting him.
He's a compromised moron. You will get a lot more out of this thread by putting him on ignore. Everyone should have him on ignore.
I hear you are on Santa’s nice list and will get what you want.
I remember when Lucas was spreading disinformation that Azov Battalion was really Putin’s Little Green Men.
KIA/day is down to 390 to meet that (by end of day 12/25, which would be posted 12/26)
Russians send a T-80 to destroy an IFV that was firing at their position. A Ukrainian drone picked it up and notified the crew that takes it out with a ATGM @ 200m. Look for the Russian infantry riding on top the tank when hit. (Video will still play if link says unavailable)
