This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...

[goldmom]

They have already explained it --- it is to materially demonstrate that there is Western resolve to protect democracy and the rights of sovereign nations.

Not complicated.

It’s not complicated but I think WDT is saying people agree - as long as we’re all aware of and believe in the fact that freedom is not free.
If the materials sent were made ten years ago the replacement cost for that material has not remained stable...it’s gone up significantly. And public companies account for that in their cost of doing business. I think we know government isn’t set up that way but it remains as a real cost.

 

[h-hawk]

The “big” increase is for an extra 300 military personnel. Are they serious?

Definitely not a trip wire but just more people to train and help plan their defense I think. Another case where we fear doing too much with our troops could be an escalation I guess.

 

[h-hawk]

OTOH I find it highly disturbing to leave behind hundreds of billions of dollars of military equipment in Afghanistan as top notch long range strategy.
What genius executed that “plan”?

And we were warned their army would collapse without skeleton US forces remaining there. I still think it would have been worth it. At least one generation of women got to go to school.

I still wonder if we have tried to "buy" back some of that equipment to send to Ukraine.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

 

[h-hawk]

 

[thewop]

Quick question as we commit billions in more dollars of aid, while not having a withdrawal plan 1 year in. When we inevitably spend several trillion more dollars to backfill our supplies we are sending over there, that goes on this wars tab also right? We like to explain how this is like the cheapest way ever to take on Russia, while footing the bill for most of the world, I just want to make sure we are all in agreement on that.


I would hope that we would all agree that if they came to us now and said they need x trillion dollars for military spending they would get laughed out of the room. When they do so in 2-3 years under the guise of resupply the money will be spent without much thought.



We need to support Ukraine. We need to have a plan for that side of the world taking over the primary role in what has now become NATOs proxy war with Russia.

It's my belief we have an install plan rather than a withdrawal plan.

I can't see a way this ends without at least 1 large US Military base in the heart of Ukraine within 10 years of the war ending.

 

[h-hawk]

 

[h-hawk]

FWIW

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

My point is it is awfully presumptuous of you to proclaim that no one in the U.S. government is operating with a long-range plan. I find that to be highly, highly unlikely.

I'm sure there is....not really sure what the "acceptable" end game for the administration or NATO is though.

If I had to guess it's pre Feb 22 border. The limitations on what we and NATO are giving Ukraine kind of point to that IMO.

Totally understand why they wouldn't make that public though...

 

[h-hawk]

 

[h-hawk]

Still amazing to me.

 

[HawkAttackDial911]

Sorry bud. Still here

You're taking my quote out of context. It's not the pawn you think it is.

 

[NorthDSMHawk]

Hmmmm

It's weird to see who "liked" that bullied by Putin post.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

 

[h-hawk]

The DMZ should be on the other side of the Russian border but thanks for the input

 

[h-hawk]

 

[h-hawk]

 

[h-hawk]

 

[GES4]

The DMZ should be on the other side of the Russian border but thanks for the input

View embedded media

Insanity. China needs to STFU.

 

[torbee]

The DMZ should be on the other side of the Russian border but thanks for the input

View embedded media

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

The DMZ should be on the other side of the Russian border but thanks for the input

View embedded media

Ummm…no

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Insanity. China needs to STFU.

How long before Chinese made weapons start appearing on the battlefield?

 

[GES4]

How long before Chinese made weapons start appearing on the battlefield?

6-8 weeks before US long range missiles and aircraft do?

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

6-8 weeks before US long range missiles and aircraft do?

Great

 

[MitchLL]

Here we are a year later...
At the start of this war I (and others - maybe even Putin) thought or hoped this might be a short war, but the landscape has changed such that we now understand the depth of Putin’s desperation.
All early attempts at worldwide propaganda no longer fool those outside Russia.
Along with a majority of Americans I don’t believe that Putin would stop at the Ukraine border should Russia manage to be the victor.
He’s a crazy and thoroughly evil man and Ukraine must win this war.

Wow, haven't we done a 180?

Congrats for seeing the light.

 

[h-hawk]

How long before Chinese made weapons start appearing on the battlefield?

Supposedly China is dependent on the US and Europe for most of their business. I think they would be making a huge mistake to supply weapons. (Unless they are planning on a war anyway?)

 

[goldmom]

Wow, haven't we done a 180?

Congrats for seeing the light.

No we have not done a 180 and in fact we haven’t even gone 90 degrees. I have supported Ukraine 100% from day one. I still do.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Supposedly China is dependent on the US and Europe for most of their business. I think they would be making a huge mistake to supply weapons. (Unless they are planning on a war anyway?)

Countries do stupid things.

They might reason and sanctions the “west” would place on them might hurt the west as much as it hurts them.

Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

No we have not done a 180 and in fact we haven’t even gone 90 degrees. I have supported Ukraine 100% from day one. I still do.

True statement

 

[goldmom]

And we were warned their army would collapse without skeleton US forces remaining there. I still think it would have been worth it. At least one generation of women got to go to school.

I still wonder if we have tried to "buy" back some of that equipment to send to Ukraine.

I can’t help but wonder who was waiting to get their hands on that equipment.

 

[h-hawk]

 

[noleclone2]

The DMZ should be on the other side of the Russian border but thanks for the input

View embedded media

Someone should do one for Taiwan with the SE corner of China in zone.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Got to respect these people.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

 

[Tenacious E]

Withdrawal plan so that in 3-5 years they are being supplied equally or, better yet, more so from the countries on that side of the world. Our plan right now is to write checks.



O yeah, we are sending them "billions", it's going to cost us "trillions" to back fill for the new shit we are going to need for sending them the old shit.

It’s weird I thought of you as an intelligent poster but this is nonsensical bullshit.

 

[Tenacious E]

So that Bill, likely in the trillions, for why we need to replace our stock, that goes on the cost of our involvement here right?



Example:

If they said "we need to spend x trillion on our military" right now, we would all tell them to get ****ed.


Yet, when they say it is backfilling for all the shit we sent over it will be passed without thought. ( but we wouldn't need to buy them or have justification for needing to buy them if we were not sending all our hand me downs away)

You keep use the word trillions. I don’t think it means you what you think it means.

 

[Tenacious E]

We are, but they won't replace it with obsolete stuff. They will use this to justify why we need more new shit, that's what I'm saying. And that cost should be accounted for in the cost of our engagement in this conflict.

We need more new shit because countries like Russia, and probably at some point China, invade their neighbors in the year 2023. And it is not just us. Poland, Germany, and other countries have placed huge orders for new military equipment or are ramping up production.

 

[h-hawk]

 

[h-hawk]