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This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...

The whole Bakhmut thing is perplexing. Last week seemed like Ukraine was going to retreat now Wagner says they are in trouble.

Both sides keep talking about how critical it is, but the commentators I've heard all westerners don't see it as critical. From what I could gather Ukraine could retreat and defend and Russia wouldn't gain any significant logistical advantage by taking Bakhmut.
Agree. Ton of conflicting info on Bahkmut.

Just hope the Ukrainians are making the correct decision to hold out.
 


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I really hope you’re wrong as the thought is terrifying.

Why would China aid Russia though?
somewhat related...

 
The whole Bakhmut thing is perplexing. Last week seemed like Ukraine was going to retreat now Wagner says they are in trouble.

Both sides keep talking about how critical it is, but the commentators I've heard all westerners don't see it as critical. From what I could gather Ukraine could retreat and defend and Russia wouldn't gain any significant logistical advantage by taking Bakhmut.
I am also thoroughly confused. This link below seems dire. Maybe it is just a disinformation campaign?

 
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I am also thoroughly confused. This link below seems dire. Maybe it is just a disinformation campaign?

I think the conundrum for China is that they can't develop these technologies without assistance. At least that is my perception.
 
I am also thoroughly confused. This link below seems dire. Maybe it is just a disinformation campaign?

Everything referenced in that article has appeared in the other articles on Bahkmut in this thread (I know, I obsessively read them all!)

It just puts a slightly different spin on it. As the NATO secretary said, Bahkmut *could* fall, Ukraine could decide to do a strategic withdrawal. But for now, it remains a bloody stalemate --- which ultimately --- shows Russia is losing.

Again, it is taking the alleged "Second Largest Army" on the planet 6 months to try and take over a city the size of Dubuque and it is trying to do so with a mercenary army made up of ex-cons.
 
Bakhmut makes sense to me. You've got a tyrant grasping at straws to say that he won something, anything. For every soldier Ukraine loses in Bakhmut, Russia loses 5-7. It's demoralizing Russia's soldiers.....they're sending guys to attack, armed with shovels while they roll out tanks from WWII that I think some of our farmers could take out with whatever that stuff is they blow up feral hogs with.

The ground is thawing, it's getting sloppy, all of the Western tanks have been trained on and are being moved into place.....Ukraine is about to unleash hell on Russia and put an end to this. The only question left in my mind is whether Putin sees the writing on the wall before Russia falls and tries to find out if their nuclear arsenal is still functional (or if it ever was).
 
Probably Pepsi but I liked the headline:

 
China’s President Xi Jinping thinks he has a great way to swing his weight around Ukraine without actually providing the Russians with military aid, as the Americans, citing unspecified intelligence sources, suspect he’s contemplating.

Why not serve as “peacemaker,” perhaps even the prime mover behind talks? Nothing would please Xi more than to exploit negotiations on the war as a device for spreading China’s influence in a region where the Chinese are minimal players. The guise of neutrality no doubt would have critics of America’s commitment to Ukraine arguing that China could really be a dispassionate observer.

https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...eace-in-ukraine-but-wont-be-a-neutral-player/
 
China’s President Xi Jinping thinks he has a great way to swing his weight around Ukraine without actually providing the Russians with military aid, as the Americans, citing unspecified intelligence sources, suspect he’s contemplating.

Why not serve as “peacemaker,” perhaps even the prime mover behind talks? Nothing would please Xi more than to exploit negotiations on the war as a device for spreading China’s influence in a region where the Chinese are minimal players. The guise of neutrality no doubt would have critics of America’s commitment to Ukraine arguing that China could really be a dispassionate observer.

https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...eace-in-ukraine-but-wont-be-a-neutral-player/
Xi, you want to pass yourself and China off as "peacemakers" and "neutrals"? This is everyone in the West with a functioning brain:

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Soooo, none? Certainly sounded like f-16s are not an option. If they need a plane that can handle rugged conditions, the article mentioned f-18s. But it does not seem like we have that many of them. Can we haul F-14s out of mothballs and donate them? Or does the world have enough "excess" f-18s to get them to Ukraine?
 
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I really hope you’re wrong as the thought is terrifying.

Why would China aid Russia though?

China might try to split the difference. Supply enough arms and aid to Russia to allow them to stay in the battle but not enough for Russia to win.

This strategy would prolong the war for the West, Ukraine and Russia, degrading the capacity of all of them. China comes out relatively stronger.

Hope that doesn't happen, but you got to think someone over in Beijing is mapping this out.
 
China might try to split the difference. Supply enough arms and aid to Russia to allow them to stay in the battle but not enough for Russia to win.

This strategy would prolong the war for the West, Ukraine and Russia, degrading the capacity of all of them. China comes out relatively stronger.

Hope that doesn't happen, but you got to think someone over in Beijing is mapping this out.
I wonder Russian's military being depleted, if China might decide they want the eastern half of Russia for itself. I suppose the threat of nukes would keep that from happening...
 
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Soooo, none? Certainly sounded like f-16s are not an option. If they need a plane that can handle rugged conditions, the article mentioned f-18s. But it does not seem like we have that many of them. Can we haul F-14s out of mothballs and donate them? Or does the world have enough "excess" f-18s to get them to Ukraine?
The Swedish Gripen keeps coming up in articles I read about the subject. Easy to maintain...can fly from improvised airfields. The limiting factor is there just not airframes available for Ukraine...they'd have to be built. Or Sweden willing to transfer them

 
China might try to split the difference. Supply enough arms and aid to Russia to allow them to stay in the battle but not enough for Russia to win.

This strategy would prolong the war for the West, Ukraine and Russia, degrading the capacity of all of them. China comes out relatively stronger.

Hope that doesn't happen, but you got to think someone over in Beijing is mapping this out.
I'm not sure a prolonged war is good for China. They are very reliant on trade for essentials including food and energy. I think they have less ability to absorb sanctions compared to Russia.
 
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