ADVERTISEMENT

This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...

A month in, Ukraine's spring counteroffensive is struggling against entrenched Russian forces and appears to have entered a near-frozen state, where neither side is making significant ground gains. That's renewing debate about whether now is the time to negotiate an end to the conflict.

The idea of an armistice is controversial because many experts don't believe Russian President Vladimir Putin will ever give up his ambition to control all of Ukraine and could never be trusted.

"Russia will break any agreement that it makes," said Ian Garner, an adjunct assistant professor of political studies at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont., who has analyzed Russian war propaganda.

"The history of negotiating with Vladimir Putin for the past 22 years has been a history of broken promises. The Russian state is brutally corrupt, increasingly attached to militarism and increasingly untrustworthy."

Still, the argument fills the pages of the respected Foreign Policy magazine, where dueling headlines proclaim the conflict in Ukraine is an "Unwinnable War" and negotiations are the only realistic endgame, countered by the claim that "Russia Can Only Be Stopped On The Battlefield."

Talk now or hold out for more gains​

Wars are nearly always ended at a negotiating table, so the debate is really about timing: Should the two sides enter into talks now or wait, each gambling on the belief that they can take more ground and be in a stronger position to negotiate later?

"This is not an either-or situation," said retired U.S. colonel Mark F. Cancian. "A negotiated settlement will reflect the situation on the battlefield. Even if one side achieves a decisive win, the negotiations will codify that situation."

Russia's military campaign is going nowhere, but Putin may well believe he can wait out the West's support of Ukraine in a war of attrition.

Republicans in the U.S. Congress have grown impatient with the expensive transfers of weapons. Donald Trump, who has shown friendliness toward Russia in the past and is again running for president in 2024 shares similar views.

Next year's presidential and congressional elections in the U.S. could fundamentally alter the West's support for Ukraine's defence.

Some Western European politicians have also quietly nudged Ukrainian officials toward talks this year, especially since neither side has gained much ground in the last nine months, and Ukraine's current action is sputtering.
"We will know in about another month when the results of the Ukrainian counteroffensive become clear," said Cancian of the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C. "So far, progress has been disappointing, steady but slow."

Kilometres of trenches have staved off counteroffensive​

Warning: This section contains an image of a dead body

Of course, Russia's army is hardly in great shape.

Its spring offensive cost tens of thousands of Russian lives, with little to show for it beyond the symbolic win at Bakhmut – which Ukrainian forces have since successfully chipped away at with their own counteroffensive.

Russian forces are exhausted, senior commanders are being replaced for insubordination, following a mutiny by the head of the Wagner mercenary group.

Western assessments suggest the Kremlin has lost so many soldiers and equipment, it would be unable to launch another offensive this year. But Russia did use the winter to build hundreds of kilometres of trenches, tank ditches and other defences, which have so far kept Ukraine from finding a weak spot in the Russian frontline through which to pour thousands of their own Western-equipped soldiers.

"They have extensive entrenchments," said Michael Kofman, one of the top U.S. analysts on Russia's armed forces, on his War on the Rocks podcast.

"They're digging fresh trenches every day and putting down more mines … the challenge is significant, to put it mildly."
There is no question Ukraine has also lost significant equipment and personnel. Accurate figures are a closely guarded secret, but certainly thousands of soldiers have been killed while tanks, artillery guns and infantry fighting vehicles have been destroyed.

"War is not like it is in the movies," Kofman said. "War is messy. It's ugly. And you aren't going to see images of hundreds of [Ukrainian] tanks crossing Russian lines."

 
Oops...

Odesa governor: Chinese consulate in port city damaged after Russian attack​

Odesa’s governor has reported that the Chinese consulate in the city was damaged in the overnight strike by Russia.

On Telegram, Oleh Kiper posted:

As a result of the Russian night attack, the building of the consulate general of the People’s Republic of China in Odesa was damaged.
The aggressor deliberately hits the port infrastructure. Administrative and residential buildings, as well as the consulate of the People’s Republic of China, were damaged. This suggests that the enemy does not pay attention to anything.
 
It is time for a blitzkreig
Ukraine probably doesn't have the number of shells available but I keep imagining a walking barrage creating a lane through the Russian minefields. There is probably a reason why armies do not try this though:)
 

Just.Call.His.Bluff

Take out his entire Black Sea Fleet and be done here.
Ultimatum that any missile fired at Ukraine means the source is getting smoked.

Any Russian base shooting a missile at Ukraine is obliterated.

Use Stealth tech and take them all out.

And deny it, just like he does. Say "Ukraine did it; we gave them the super-secret-hypersonic-invisible missiles to do it".
 
  • Wow
Reactions: binsfeldcyhawk2
Just.Call.His.Bluff

Take out his entire Black Sea Fleet and be done here.
Ultimatum that any missile fired at Ukraine means the source is getting smoked.

Any Russian base shooting a missile at Ukraine is obliterated.

Use Stealth tech and take them all out.

And deny it, just like he does. Say "Ukraine did it; we gave them the super-secret-hypersonic-invisible missiles to do it".
Seems like a recipe for Armageddon. I'm glad the Biden administration has much cooler heads...
 
Seems like a recipe for Armageddon.
Seems like a recipe for calling his bluff, because he ain't got anything to answer with.

'member how the US spends more on its entire nuclear arsenal than Russia's entire military budget?

Now consider how much of Russia's "military budget" is actually smoke and mirrors, and went to building yachts and resort palaces around the world by the oligarchs who were supposed to build tanks and shit.
 
Just.Call.His.Bluff

Take out his entire Black Sea Fleet and be done here.
Ultimatum that any missile fired at Ukraine means the source is getting smoked.

Any Russian base shooting a missile at Ukraine is obliterated.

Use Stealth tech and take them all out.

And deny it, just like he does. Say "Ukraine did it; we gave them the super-secret-hypersonic-invisible missiles to do it".
Taking out the whole thing in one go is too much of an escalation. Maybe we try a middle ground first. Have the Brits and US declare if any non-Ukrainian ship is attacked the attacking plane/ship/etc will be subject to immediate international response. The first time they fire a cruise missile they lose a slava class cruiser or the equivalent.

We should at a minimum move a significant naval presence into the western Black Sea as escort to grain ships. If Turkey protests…f*ck em, what are they going to do?
 
Seems like a recipe for calling his bluff, because he ain't got anything to answer with.

'member how the US spends more on its entire nuclear arsenal than Russia's entire military budget?

Now consider how much of Russia's "military budget" is actually smoke and mirrors, and went to building yachts and resort palaces around the world by the oligarchs who were supposed to build tanks and shit.
Oh...I have no doubt we'd "win" a Nuclear exchange.

Probably get out of it with only a few million casualties...if we're lucky.
 
I am pretty certain there is a significant amount of rhetoric happening behind the scenes between the US/NATO and Russia. And Ukraine likely is a participant regarding the Black Sea threats.
And at this point, that's all it is, a threat.

Putin knows a Western response would come.
 
Taking out the whole thing in one go is too much of an escalation. Maybe we try a middle ground first. Have the Brits and US declare if any non-Ukrainian ship is attacked the attacking plane/ship/etc will be subject to immediate international response. The first time they fire a cruise missile they lose a slava class cruiser or the equivalent.

We should at a minimum move a significant naval presence into the western Black Sea as escort to grain ships. If Turkey protests…f*ck em, what are they going to do?
We cannot move any ship into the Black Sea without the approval of Turkey, and they aren't going to give it. Some small coastal patrol and river craft can be brought in via truck, or via water routes, but no serious combat ship is going through the Bosporous until Turkey gives the okay.
Turkey has to want to end the grain crisis.
 
Oops...

Odesa governor: Chinese consulate in port city damaged after Russian attack​

Odesa’s governor has reported that the Chinese consulate in the city was damaged in the overnight strike by Russia.

On Telegram, Oleh Kiper posted:


I don't like to see innocent people hurt, but in a coldly calculating way some dead Chinese would have been a windfall for Ukraine. Xi would never allow that to go without a response, especially since Russia is now a beggar nation.
 
Ukraine probably doesn't have the number of shells available but I keep imagining a walking barrage creating a lane through the Russian minefields. There is probably a reason why armies do not try this though:)
This might be why the US agreed to send the cluster munitions. They can be very effective at clearing minefields and getting into trenches.
 
  • Like
Reactions: torbee and h-hawk
I read in the Economist a few weeks ago that literally every piece of hardware the Italians have donated has been unusable without spending valuable time and resources to refurbish. They are handing over equipment that has not been maintained.
This conflict has kind of exposed how some of the NATO members let their militaries go to crap...
 
I read in the Economist a few weeks ago that literally every piece of hardware the Italians have donated has been unusable without spending valuable time and resources to refurbish. They are handing over equipment that has not been maintained.
As the former owner of a Fiat, I can confirm the likelihood of this.
 
This conflict has kind of exposed how some of the NATO members let their militaries go to crap...
I believe Spain was also called out for handing over garbage. I guess being 3 layers deep in Western Europe made them feel too safe, and they put very little into their army. The Air Force and Navy are still good, although undersized.
 
This conflict has kind of exposed how some of the NATO members let their militaries go to crap...
To be fair, the stuff they would actually use themselves probably isn't in that condition. They just used the stuff they are sending for the spare parts to keep the other equipment running. But it does bring up serious concerns about their capacity to carry out extended operations.
 
I believe Spain was also called out for handing over garbage. I guess being 3 layers deep in Western Europe made them feel too safe, and they put very little into their army. The Air Force and Navy are still good, although undersized.
Yep...war reserve material WRM (which is what our military would categorize this stuff) still requires periodic maintenance. You'd also want to hermetically seal a lot of stuff. (I managed a WRM account for a few years)

Can't just park shit outside for years and expect stuff to be functional...
 

Anton Gerashchenko
@Gerashchenko_en

BREAKING NEWS: A statement by Ukrainian Defense Ministry: The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine warns that from 00:00 July 21, 2023, all vessels heading through the waters of the Black Sea in the direction of seaports of the Russian Federation and Ukrainian seaports located on the territory of Ukraine that is temporarily occupied by Russia may be considered by Ukraine as carrying military cargo with all the associated risks. In addition, navigation in the areas of the North-Eastern part of the Black Sea and the Kerch-Yenikal Strait of Ukraine is prohibited as dangerous, from 05:00 on July 20, 2023. Relevant navigational information for mariners has already been published. The Russian Federation has once again brutally violated the universal right to free navigation for the whole world and is deliberately undermining food security, condemning millions of people to starvation. By openly threatening civilian ships transporting food from Ukrainian ports, launching missile attacks and drone attacks on civilian infrastructure in peaceful cities, deliberately creating a military threat on trade routes, the Kremlin has turned the Black Sea into a danger zone, primarily for Russian ships and ships heading in the waters of the Black Sea in the direction of seaports of the Russian Federation and Ukrainian seaports located on the territory of Ukraine temporarily occupied by Russia. The responsibility for all risks lies entirely with the Russian leadership. The fate of the cruiser "Moscow" proves that the Defense Forces of Ukraine have the necessary means to repel Russian aggression at sea."




 
Turkey could simply close the straights to Russian shipping if it doesn't allow grain ships to go through.

Russia is nearly declaring a guerre de course, so Turkey responding with a near blockade would be proportionate.
And now they can use the excuse that it is to protect Russian shipping from Ukraine:)
 

Anton Gerashchenko
@Gerashchenko_en

BREAKING NEWS: A statement by Ukrainian Defense Ministry: The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine warns that from 00:00 July 21, 2023, all vessels heading through the waters of the Black Sea in the direction of seaports of the Russian Federation and Ukrainian seaports located on the territory of Ukraine that is temporarily occupied by Russia may be considered by Ukraine as carrying military cargo with all the associated risks. In addition, navigation in the areas of the North-Eastern part of the Black Sea and the Kerch-Yenikal Strait of Ukraine is prohibited as dangerous, from 05:00 on July 20, 2023. Relevant navigational information for mariners has already been published. The Russian Federation has once again brutally violated the universal right to free navigation for the whole world and is deliberately undermining food security, condemning millions of people to starvation. By openly threatening civilian ships transporting food from Ukrainian ports, launching missile attacks and drone attacks on civilian infrastructure in peaceful cities, deliberately creating a military threat on trade routes, the Kremlin has turned the Black Sea into a danger zone, primarily for Russian ships and ships heading in the waters of the Black Sea in the direction of seaports of the Russian Federation and Ukrainian seaports located on the territory of Ukraine temporarily occupied by Russia. The responsibility for all risks lies entirely with the Russian leadership. The fate of the cruiser "Moscow" proves that the Defense Forces of Ukraine have the necessary means to repel Russian aggression at sea."





Seems appropriate
 
Turkey could simply close the straights to Russian shipping if it doesn't allow grain ships to go through.

Russia is nearly declaring a guerre de course, so Turkey responding with a near blockade would be proportionate.

Yep, or let 'em thru, then disable their propulsion/rudders and let NATO/USN tow them to where we confiscate the stuff.

Track anything that leaves a Russian port, and take it.
 
We cannot move any ship into the Black Sea without the approval of Turkey, and they aren't going to give it. Some small coastal patrol and river craft can be brought in via truck, or via water routes, but no serious combat ship is going through the Bosporous until Turkey gives the okay.
Turkey has to want to end the grain crisis.
I recognize that Turkey controls the straight you have to pass through. But if they fail to uphold security in the Black Sea and we step in exactly what are they going to do about it? Yes, they will summon our ambassador, yes they will cry in the UN and the media. But if we sail a carrier group through they can’t and won’t actually stop us.

It might be an “asshole“ move, but then again Turkey is more of an asshole if they prevent someone helping to distribute that grain safely.

All that said, I would first tell Turkey exactly how this will play out and give them three options in order of attractiveness:

1) they step up to provide security
2) if they won’t step up then invite us through
3) if they won’t invite us we are going through anyway

Pretty straightforward honestly.
 
SIAP and I missed it. I kept wondering how Ukraine would compare to North America as regards climate.

https://vividmaps.com/comparing-latitude-of-europe-and-america/

USA_Europe.jpg
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT