This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...
- Thread starter Nole Lou
- Start date
If it had been the three day walkover victory he thought it would be, he and Russia would've expanded their territory and influence coming closer to reestablishing the old USSR.
I am coming around to this line of thinking. I think, and I know this may piss some off and I am not trying to derail this thread, but some of the difficulties we are having and have had with Russia is old fashion racism. If they were doing exact same thing but were an Asian or Middle East country, we would be much quicker to blame the entire country itself and view their entire society as being barbaric, dangerous, and likely never able to accept the concepts of a modern, free "westernized" country. But the Russians, whelp, they look like us and border Europe. So we blame their leaders and think they are just waiting to be free and follow the true framework of a "westernized" country, even though the reality is they may be more like a China or an Afghanistan and are decades and decades and even centuries away from such a thing.
(Click to see whole thing.)
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Russia lost 22 tanks, 10 artillery, and 50 armored personnel carriers in one day. Ouch.
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
tl;dr I would go drone heavy to take out Russian anti air capabilities and allow MIG handover to happen - no US pilots. Also I don’t have CIA intelligence that Putin is that crazy - do you? I have reams of ex-CIA/military types (you have most likely seen in the media) saying he is not. Plus I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night so can confidently judge this is an extremely low probability event.
tl;dr below the line
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I would first make sure all aircraft that the Ukrainians need get to them. We arm them with javelins but refuse to allow our base to be used as a handover for Polish MIGs? Silly distinction. Then I would flood the area with US drones - allow them to engage Russian ground based anti air assets. I would not put US pilots in the air - at least initially. I would not allow US to attack into Belarus or Russia unless Russia goes into Poland. I would begin the Patriot training process immediately and prepare to move those in to protect Lviv and western Ukraine once they have a crash course on the system. This should have started in January as training takes many weeks.
That alone should be enough to dramatically swing the air battle over Ukraine considering it seems to be an even fight at the moment.
As to a far fetched bluff: Putin is a selfish egomaniac on a mission to extend Russia’s influence. He is known as coldly rational (albeit clearly prone to believing his own bullshit). I just don’t see it in him to be like “f*ck it if the Russians can’t have the world no one can”. He knows it is the end of all Russians if he were to do this. He also is very experienced in the politics of escalation and you are falling right into his trap. I view the probability he would actually do it as like 1 in 10,000 or .01%. Do you have intelligence from the CIA that says otherwise or do you just assume they think he is insane enough to do it? Most knowledgable observers I have seen say this is a bluff and I bet that is the assessment coming from our intel folks.
But let’s pretend he is that .01% crazy - have you read up on the protocol to launch Russian nukes? It’s not like Putin has his finger on the button - it is very close to the western model. There is a military guy with a briefcase containing the codes/protocol/comms needed to start the process. He has to go along with this. The security forces around Putin have to go along and not put a bullet in his brain. Then those at the launch facilities need to go along with it. Shoigu needs to go along with it. Any one of them could stop this one way or the other. They have families. They have friends. They are not monsters, they are human. I obviously don’t have direct knowledge, but neither do you. I can say this with a modicum of experience though as I have spent a lot of time in Russia on business and have interacted with many ex-gov / military types. The odds that you get all of these people deciding to end life on Earth is staggeringly small let’s say another .01% although I bet it is even smaller. So multiply the .01% Putin wants to do it by the .01% that his people go along with it and you get .0001% (1 in 1 million).
But apparently all Putin has to do is threaten nukes for us to play this war by his rules.
Not promoting using NATO pilots but it is true that in Korea and Vietnam, Russian pilots flew against us. In WW2 American pilots flew for the Chinese against Japan before we entered the war. Maybe we should consider American "volunteers" flying hot rodded Migs in Ukraine
"Founded in 1949 to defend against the Soviet threat, the NATO alliance is facing a return to mechanised warfare, a huge increase in defence spending, and potentially a new Iron Curtain falling across Europe."
ON BOARD THE SUPPLY SHIP ELBE, Latvia (Reuters) - Hours after Russian missiles first struck Ukrainian cities on Feb. 24, German naval commander Terje Schmitt-Eliassen received notice to sail five warships under his command to the former Soviet Republic of Latvia to help protect the most vulnerable part of NATO's eastern flank.
The hasty dispatch was part of Germany's scramble to send "everything that can swim out to sea," as the navy's top boss phrased it, to defend an area military strategists have long deemed the weakest point for the alliance. The vessels' sudden departure demonstrated how NATO, and Germany, were propelled by Russia's invasion into a new reality and face what officials, diplomats, intelligence officials and security sources agree is the most serious threat to the alliance's collective security since the Cold War."
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/russia-ma...8.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr
ON BOARD THE SUPPLY SHIP ELBE, Latvia (Reuters) - Hours after Russian missiles first struck Ukrainian cities on Feb. 24, German naval commander Terje Schmitt-Eliassen received notice to sail five warships under his command to the former Soviet Republic of Latvia to help protect the most vulnerable part of NATO's eastern flank.
The hasty dispatch was part of Germany's scramble to send "everything that can swim out to sea," as the navy's top boss phrased it, to defend an area military strategists have long deemed the weakest point for the alliance. The vessels' sudden departure demonstrated how NATO, and Germany, were propelled by Russia's invasion into a new reality and face what officials, diplomats, intelligence officials and security sources agree is the most serious threat to the alliance's collective security since the Cold War."
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/russia-ma...8.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr
https://emergency-services.news/uk-firefighters-head-to-poland-to-deliver-firefighting-equipment-for-ukrainian-firefighters/?utm_campaign=ESN Top Stories & Videos&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue newsletter
"Firefighters from the London Fire Brigade (LFB) have volunteered to drive vehicles as part of a convoy delivering fire and rescue kit and equipment to the Polish State Fire Service.
Fire and Rescue Services from across the UK have been donating kit and equipment to be sent to Ukraine to support frontline firefighters.
As part of a coordinated effort led by Fire AID and the National Fire Chiefs Council (NFCC), the Brigade has donated breathing apparatus equipment and cylinders."
Members of the Brigade’s International Search and Rescue (ISAR) Logistics team have led the project to sort and safely load the donations this week, ready for them to be transported.
"Firefighters from the London Fire Brigade (LFB) have volunteered to drive vehicles as part of a convoy delivering fire and rescue kit and equipment to the Polish State Fire Service.
Fire and Rescue Services from across the UK have been donating kit and equipment to be sent to Ukraine to support frontline firefighters.
As part of a coordinated effort led by Fire AID and the National Fire Chiefs Council (NFCC), the Brigade has donated breathing apparatus equipment and cylinders."
Members of the Brigade’s International Search and Rescue (ISAR) Logistics team have led the project to sort and safely load the donations this week, ready for them to be transported.
How Ukraine May Be Killing All Those Generals
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...ian-generals/vi-AAVhU0P?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...ian-generals/vi-AAVhU0P?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
Without the nukes no country would give Russia a second thought. They have the GDP of something like the state of N.Y. The world needs to find a way to get those nukes.
- Sep 13, 2002
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A nato funded Ukrainian counter attack? Russia is against the ropes and won't use nukes withen its own border.
You’re talking about Russians.
They considered (and not just at the white board) building a canal with nukes:
Unlike most other parts of the grand river rerouting scheme, the Pechora to Kama route did not just stay on the drawing board. It saw actual on-the-ground work done of the most unusual kind: on March 23, 1971, three 15-kiloton underground nuclear charges were exploded near the village of Vasyukovo in Cherdynsky District of Perm Oblast, some 100 km (62 mi) north of the town of Krasnovishersk. This nuclear test, known as Taiga,[2] part of the Soviet peaceful nuclear explosions program, was intended to demonstrate the feasibility of using nuclear explosions for canal construction. The triple blast created a crater over 600 m (2,000 ft) long. Later on, it was decided that building an entire canal in this fashion, using potentially several hundreds of nuclear charges, would not be feasible, and the use of nuclear charges for canal excavation was abandoned.
This could be the Ka-52 we saw at the beginning of the war downed in a field. At one point in the clip you can see that a tractor trailer is parked across the middle of the air strip to deny its use.
Footage from Russian Ka-52, damaged during assault of Hostomel airfield 24th Feb. On 1:29 pilot says "Guys, I'm hit, keep control, emergency landing"
Footage from Russian Ka-52, damaged during assault of Hostomel airfield 24th Feb. On 1:29 pilot says "Guys, I'm hit, keep control, emergency landing"
Sounds a lot like Soviet propaganda to justify a military nuke test because "we're going to use them for just peaceful stuff".
Are these Russian military leaders being killed by the Ukrainian’s or is Putin offing generals that aren’t getting the job done ?🧐
I don’t think he’s offing them. It’s Ukrainians or someone working with them.
WTF? That is the beginning of a porn movie. The blonde is totally into the scene, and the brunette is curious, and looks like she can be talked into anything...
I was watching a segment on CNN this morning, and frequent traveller to Russia / journalist Kier Simmons was being interviewed it. I'll just sum it up and say that the vision that Simmons projects of Russia under Putin is of a much larger North Korea. More detached from the West. More aggressive. Self reliant to the point of needless internal suffering.
Surely, this amounts to several more of Putin's lines in the sand crossed.
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Russia didn’t open their stock market as promised. The ruble is performing as you’d expect.
I saw an interview with General Patraes and his take was the Russian communications were so poor that they sometimes had to go towards the front line to get information. That’s when the Ukrainian snipers could get them.
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