This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...
- Thread starter Nole Lou
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And I continue to pray that no matter what, the West will never let this happen.
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- Sep 13, 2002
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Throughout this debacle, it has been clear to me that Russians don't have night vision. It is absolutely imperative to any night time combat. If Ukraine can get enough of them, this is over much faster.
First time I used them I was amazed at what you could see.
I did not like the part describing Ukraine having troubles feeding replacements into their forces. Hope it is just minor growing pains since they are expanding into a huge (700,000 they claim) army.
If you are Ukraine, would you clear mines from your last major port and trust the Russians not to take advantage of that-I wouldn't!
Cats....they drive me nuts at night, so I can only imagine what they can do to the Ruskies
This is in addition to the 18 already given to Ukraine.
"Poland will sell three more squadrons of Krab 155mm self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine.
That’s according to the Polish news site Dzennik, Ukrinform reports.
The contract for the supply of artillery pieces worth PLN 3 billion ($700 million) has become the largest military export order in Poland in the last 20 years, the statement said."
The howitzers will be manufactured at the Huta Stalowa Wola plant, which is part of the Polish Armaments Group. Currently, the plant’s production capacity is 20-30 artillery pieces per year.
The artillery will be delivered to Ukraine in the next few months. Ukraine became the first export customer of this type of weapon.
Usually, one of the problems with this type of contracts with other countries, apart from a good offer, was also the lack of involvement of government agencies. This time, officials from the Ministry of State Assets, the Ministry of National Defense and the Chancellery of the Prime Minister acted in unison and -- even more importantly -- effectively."
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-at...-krab-selfpropelled-howitzers-to-ukraine.html
"Poland will sell three more squadrons of Krab 155mm self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine.
That’s according to the Polish news site Dzennik, Ukrinform reports.
The contract for the supply of artillery pieces worth PLN 3 billion ($700 million) has become the largest military export order in Poland in the last 20 years, the statement said."
The howitzers will be manufactured at the Huta Stalowa Wola plant, which is part of the Polish Armaments Group. Currently, the plant’s production capacity is 20-30 artillery pieces per year.
The artillery will be delivered to Ukraine in the next few months. Ukraine became the first export customer of this type of weapon.
Usually, one of the problems with this type of contracts with other countries, apart from a good offer, was also the lack of involvement of government agencies. This time, officials from the Ministry of State Assets, the Ministry of National Defense and the Chancellery of the Prime Minister acted in unison and -- even more importantly -- effectively."
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-at...-krab-selfpropelled-howitzers-to-ukraine.html
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Related topic-Twitter! This afternoon around 2PM CST, it would only load a couple of pages and stopped like it had run our of content. I can refresh but then it happens all over again with only a couple of pages worth of tweets. Sometimes when I refresh it says there are no results!!!!
Just mentioning it in case it is not my system at fault but some change in Twitter.
(I have always been able to search into the 2 hour plus mark and never run into a dead end.)
Just mentioning it in case it is not my system at fault but some change in Twitter.
(I have always been able to search into the 2 hour plus mark and never run into a dead end.)
So you think Russia is doing all this for a road to Crimea? There's already a road around the other way.
When trying to determine a motive, maybe listen first and then go ahead and try to discredit it. I just saw this yesterday. Here Putin basically says in December 2021 that a war is coming if he doesn't get security guarantees and guarantees from the US to quit putting weapons on the Russian border. He says that Nato is in it's 5th wave of expansion and no one has listened to Russian concerns. He also says earlier in the 4 hour forum, not here, that he is currently in talks with Biden. In other words, maybe preventable.
Chomsky said in January 2022, "Ukraine is the most dangerous crisis in the world but also the most easily preventable."
We already have a Natty Light so I am going to call you Natty Ice.
The fact remains that Russia has invaded a neighbor (yet again) and NATO has not. There was zero threat of Ukraine or NATO attacking Russia.
Your propaganda holds no water.
I believe that's been their primary goal all along. They want complete and unfettered access to the sea there. Anything else they can gain and any damage they can do to Ukraine so they can't fight back to retake it in the future is all just icing for them. At the very least Ukraine has to keep fighting until they can reclaim their coastline again and Russia is unable to retake them. Odessa cannot fall, and Mariupol needs to be retaken. I don't know that Crimea is ever going to come back, but the rest is certainly all within range by the end of the year. And I'd like to see Nato plant missiles right on the coast aimed at Crimea in case Russia gets uppity again.
These guys are probably missing by now.
https://news.yahoo.com/intercepted-audio-shows-2-russian-094937011.html
https://news.yahoo.com/intercepted-audio-shows-2-russian-094937011.html
So, now weapons on your border is zero threat. Maybe someone should have told JFK in the Cuban missile crisis.
Look, you guys got criticizing Putin under control, I'm criticizing our own government because I think they also deserve some criticism.
So I haven't really been paying attention to you and there are thousands of posts in this thread. What is your position? The United States is to blame for giving a country the means to defend itself when another country attempts to wipe it off face of the Earth? Or the United States is to blame in some manner for allowing Ukraine to exist, so Russia is justified in attempting to wipe it off the face of the Earth? If it is about having weapons on a border, that's been the case for the entire world since the advent of ICBMs and subs that can fire missiles with nuclear warheads. The Cuban missile crisis was in 1962 before most of that was in play.
There were no weapons in Ukraine. The West was so paranoid about Putin invading, they would not allow Ukraine to join NATO for fear it would bring on an attack. Turns out Putin is crazy enough he decided to attack anyway.
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I read these BBC updates and they just don’t match the Twitter propaganda in this thread.
www.bbc.com
Ukraine in maps: Tracking the war with Russia - BBC News
As Russian forces make slow progress in eastern Ukraine, Ukraine's military stages a surprise cross-border attack.
www.bbc.com
lesson is don’t give up your nukes…..and acquire them if you don’t have them.
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Wonder if this is more video of the mysterious explosion in the coastal city of Berdyansk claimed to be sabotage.
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My postion is pretty well aligned with Noam Chomsky, not exactly. The US is right to give weapons to Ukraine to defend itself but they should be carefully calibrated not to escalate the war into something much bigger. The US should try to be actively involved in the negotiations to end the war. There are things the US can bring to the table, being the most powerful country on earth (with tremendous leverage and bargaining power) that would probably end the war quickly. The US could have prevented this war but chose not to on principle and disregarding any Russian security concerns, even legitimate concerns. Ukraine and Georgia are a red line for any Russian leader per Chomsky. The US Ukraine joint partnership in September set everything in motion, which made Ukraine a defacto member of Nato, offered enhanced weapons and military "research" agreement. Big plans, I can't remember everything. It's on the whitehouse website.
Russia should pay for everything starting with their reserve fund $300b. I think they would pay almost any price to get out of this, jmho, but aren't going to leave because then they wouldn't have any bargaining power.
Also, the US position to weaken Russia does not align exactly with Ukraine's goal (the people of Ukraine represented by Zelensky), which is to end the war without giving up territory. This war will only truly end thru diplomacy as Zelensky has said.
This does not make any sense and is wholly unrelated to the Cuban missile crisis which you cited as an analog. Russia state TV and Russia’s actions have made clear this is nothing more than imperialism and what you cite is mere pretext. Russia got the tip of its dick wet with crimea and part of eastern Ukraine and then it wanted to rape the whole country into submission and out of existence.
Of course. Hwk23, nat, natty lite, and warrior poet will chime in it’s for everyone’s own good to do to this to bring a speedy as possible closure to the “special operation”.
SIAP.
This is a very interesting interview with an American soldier that has been fighting in Ukraine.
This is a very interesting interview with an American soldier that has been fighting in Ukraine.
The US was giving weapons to Ukraine, and other big plans, including NATO membership. This is September 2021.
- Providing Ukraine with Security Assistance: The United States is announcing a new $60 million security assistance package, including additional Javelin anti-armor systems and other defensive lethal and non-lethal capabilities, to enable Ukraine to more effectively defend itself against Russian aggression. The United States has committed $2.5 billion in support of Ukraine’s forces since 2014, including more than $400 million this year alone.
- The United States supports Ukraine’s right to decide its own future foreign policy course free from outside interference, including with respect to Ukraine’s aspirations to join NATO.
- We intend to continue our robust training and exercise program in keeping with Ukraine’s status as a NATO Enhanced Opportunities Partner
- The United States and Ukraine have finalized a Research, Development, Test, and Evaluation Agreement that provides a framework for pursuing bilateral armaments and military-technical cooperation.
Joint Statement on the U.S.-Ukraine Strategic Partnership | The White House
Thirty years after the restoration of Ukraine’s independence, the bonds between the United States and Ukraine are stronger than ever. Our shared
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This was all after Russia invaded the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.
This isn't 1962 and you're just flat wrong here. Russia started this war. Even after 2014, NATO didn't attack Russia.
Your NATO expansion argument is just a sorry excuse for Russia to claim that it can subjugate its former Soviet satellite states.
Russia has ALWAYS felt like it could subjugate its neighbors. This goes back centuries. It didn't just start when NATO expanded to include formerly subjugated countries.
