What you couldn't drive to Des Moines?And I was told I was running away crying.So sad we disagree, but I've a feeling if Iowa stuck to it's ground both Drake and UNI would end up playing in Carver. And that means more games for Hawkeye fans to attend!
Time for the "Big 4" crap to end
- Thread starter Mr. Carfino
- Start date
Realizing full well that I am jumping into this debate late, I am curious to know where some of this bravado comes from. If you are auditioning for the vacant AD position in Cedar Falls then by all means, take your best shot. However, if you are assuming that Iowa needs to acquiesce to a demand from UNI then you need to take a closer look perhaps.
From the most recent report on financial operations for UNI, it appears that the athletic department netted approximately $677K from operations fiscal year 2014-15. Recall that UNI played Iowa in Kinnick in the fall of 2014. I'll let you tell me how much the check was that the University of Iowa wrote out to UNI for that game - suffice it to be that it covers the overwhelming majority of that $677 gain. Due to circumstances beyond the sole control of Iowa, those games are not likely to occur again anytime soon. (The same applies to all Big Ten member institutions, so substituting a Wisconsin or Minnesota or Illinois will not be an alternative.) Take the potential $500K or more from the budget and think again how things might look then.
To the point. At one time, UNI played basketball in the dome. More recently, home games for the Panthers are held in the smaller on campus facility I believe. Conversely, Iowa plays home games at Carver Hawkeye Arena, a venue that seats 15,400. Common sense would dictate that more people than what either UNI or Drake can accommodate wish to see the game that the number of facilities available and capable of seating the most paying fanbase(s) is CHA.
Iowa does not need to play UNI in men's basketball. Personally, I think it is a great game that typically features several of the former stars from various high school programs in the State of Iowa. But, if you think it is wise to say 'Iowa, you either play in our smaller gym or we will take the proverbial ball and go home.' then I am afraid that you will see how that turns out. Nothing out of the local media surprises me anymore, but any argument of what they will/will not say about such a decision is a very weak argument. The landscape of college athletics is evolving at breakneck speed and we all now know that football is the control switch. With changes coming due to the advent of the CFP, football and to a lesser extent other sports are impacted. All schools from the Power 5 conferences are facing critical decisions that will shape the future of football and yes, even basketball going forward. To deny that is just not being sensible.
Wait, what? How is UNI "taking their ball and going home" in this discussion? UNI has said if we play, it's going to be on equal footing. Either home and home, or the neutral Des Moines thing. We're not demanding games in Cedar Falls. Even if some of us would like to go back to the old way, we can't make you come, and that's your choice. But to float some idea that Iowa can strong arm UNI into accepting games in Carver only? That's just silly. Didn't the ADs announce this Big 4 thing was renewed for another four years anyway? I prefer the old way, but at least with Wells Fargo it's a chance to play in a NCAA venue with a tournament style atmosphere.
Thanks for the football check. We come as a bargain compared to most guarantee games you bring into Kinnick. I think we've proved a worthy opponent in football, despite our obvious scholarship disadvantage. I've always been a huge Kirk Ferentz fan and see a lot of similarities in how he and Ben Jacobson conduct themselves. Stick to what you do and do it well. Never get too high or too low.
Thanks for the football check. We come as a bargain compared to most guarantee games you bring into Kinnick. I think we've proved a worthy opponent in football, despite our obvious scholarship disadvantage. I've always been a huge Kirk Ferentz fan and see a lot of similarities in how he and Ben Jacobson conduct themselves. Stick to what you do and do it well. Never get too high or too low.
The discussion to this point has been all over the lot, so to speak. At least some sentiment is that the 'Big 4' "thing" is not ideal and needs to be changed (see thread title.)
There is no more of a strong arm tactic in what I have proposed to what you have said. That is precisely what led me to respond to you. The notion that UNI has performed better lately and thus can somehow dictate what happens where is a bit cavalier. If UNI and Drake wielded such power then there would be games occurring in the Knapp Center and Cedar Falls now. As for the tournament atmosphere, some of those I have heard from do not share your unbridled enthusiasm for the event. It is what it is - two games played back to back without any championship.
No one was arguing the quality of play. The point stands that up to this point Iowa has helped subsidize the UNI athletic program in those years when the two programs played football against one another. Now, that no longer remains even a possibility for UNI so something will have to happen to replace that income. Sounds to me that you feel confident of finding programs willing to do that; I am not as certain that it will be as easy as you think.
Interesting that you bring up Coach Jacobson. He, in the past, has made it very clear that he is extremely comfortable in Cedar Falls. What happens though, if something alters that. There will be a new AD looking to make his own mark on the program... what if there is a difference of direction/opinion there? As good as the situation is for Jake and his family now, what if a Wisconsin (for example sake) comes along and offers the job in Madison to him? Things seem to change more than they stay the same
UNI isn't in a position to dictate terms, but at this point, who is? I think it's likely to stay "as is" for a while. And if I gave any indication that I have unbridled enthusiasm for the event, let me correct that. I don't really care for it. But it's better than not playing at all. I did say it duplicates a tournament atmosphere, and I still believe that to be true. Somewhat stale atmosphere with one team having more fans than the rest, other fans coming and going during the games, and a hockey-arena shooting backdrop. I think it's somewhat helpful, especially for younger players, to get that kind of experience before the NCAAs. That's all I really meant by that.
As for football, we still have one more game in Kinnick the year after next. After that, if Jim Delany's rule stays in place, we will look elsewhere for guarantee games. ISU seems willing to play us more regularly. We've played at Hawaii, BYU, and other out of state locations in recent history. We'll figure it out.
Coach Jake has said he's content, and UNI has made him as comfortable as is possible for the school, but if a great new challenge comes along he can't pass up, I'll definitely wish him well and congratulate his new school on making a great hire. He's been here 10 years. He might be gone by next year, or he might be here another 10 years. Either way, I'm just going to enjoy the ride.
As for football, we still have one more game in Kinnick the year after next. After that, if Jim Delany's rule stays in place, we will look elsewhere for guarantee games. ISU seems willing to play us more regularly. We've played at Hawaii, BYU, and other out of state locations in recent history. We'll figure it out.
Coach Jake has said he's content, and UNI has made him as comfortable as is possible for the school, but if a great new challenge comes along he can't pass up, I'll definitely wish him well and congratulate his new school on making a great hire. He's been here 10 years. He might be gone by next year, or he might be here another 10 years. Either way, I'm just going to enjoy the ride.
I am also a UNI fan but I don't get why Panther fans are so pissy about this setup. few other decent teams would even play UNI on a NEUTRAL court, let alone home and home. right now they are a 2nd-tier mid major who gets a top 50 neutral court game 2 hours from home. that's gold.
UNI can't get Wisconsin, Minnesota, Marquette, or anyone else to do home and homes, why are those so pissy at Iowa and Iowa State? plus, Iowa hasn't been great lately yet they've played .500 ball vs UNI while Iowa State has been freaking owned by UNI. why is Iowa taking all the heat? Fran and Jake are friends...maybe with Dannen gone Fran will reconsider after the Big Four contract is up in 2 years.
as for which program is better...let's go back to the start of the McDermott era to be fair to UNI. that's 14 years. UNI has been to 6 NCAA tourneys with 3 wins and missed 4 straight years. Iowa has been 4 NCAA tournaments with one win and missed 7 straight years. UNI leads the series in that time 7-6.
so yes the BEST years of UNI basketball were a little better than the WORST years of Iowa basketball. I love UNI along with Iowa, and I would rather see a home and home than the Big Four, but let's not act like UNI has surpassed Iowa as a program overall for eternity. bottom line, UNI survived a coaching change better than Iowa did. most schools are one bad hire away from irrelevance.
in my opinion UNI fans need stop with hypocrisy of claiming the better program while also complaining that Iowa won't play them. if you are better, why do you care?
UNI can't get Wisconsin, Minnesota, Marquette, or anyone else to do home and homes, why are those so pissy at Iowa and Iowa State? plus, Iowa hasn't been great lately yet they've played .500 ball vs UNI while Iowa State has been freaking owned by UNI. why is Iowa taking all the heat? Fran and Jake are friends...maybe with Dannen gone Fran will reconsider after the Big Four contract is up in 2 years.
as for which program is better...let's go back to the start of the McDermott era to be fair to UNI. that's 14 years. UNI has been to 6 NCAA tourneys with 3 wins and missed 4 straight years. Iowa has been 4 NCAA tournaments with one win and missed 7 straight years. UNI leads the series in that time 7-6.
so yes the BEST years of UNI basketball were a little better than the WORST years of Iowa basketball. I love UNI along with Iowa, and I would rather see a home and home than the Big Four, but let's not act like UNI has surpassed Iowa as a program overall for eternity. bottom line, UNI survived a coaching change better than Iowa did. most schools are one bad hire away from irrelevance.
in my opinion UNI fans need stop with hypocrisy of claiming the better program while also complaining that Iowa won't play them. if you are better, why do you care?
The thing about football is that there is absolutely no excuse for playing an FCS team other than UNI and not playing UNI. That's the first rule to keep in mind.
If you're a P5 team and you don't play any FCS schools, then I think a legitimate case exists for not playing. The point isn't that UNI might be better than ISU or SUI, or -- more to the point -- that UNI might be better than the MAC or similar team that ISU or SUI plays. The point is they're in difference divisions.
Basketball is an entirely different matter. I cannot think of a legitimate reason for ISU or Iowa to refuse to play UNI or Drake.
It's the home/away or even neutral court aspect Lone Clone. Please look at the schedules of the Big Conference schools. Rarely are they playing true away games and if not a BIG tournament their neutral court games are rare as well.
In Iowa's case we already have home and away every year with a team from the Big12, ACC and Big East. Two true away games is about all anyone should expect from our nonconference. That leaves one game left. I'd rather see a home and away with another power conference than be relegated to UNI every year. It's better for Iowa.
Now if UNI and Drake want to play Iowa I'd sure love to see them come to Carver. But, if they feel too "grown up" for that, so be it.
No reason to not want to play a perennial top 100 opponent on a neutral court (In this case, UNI). Absolutely none. Non con is all about resume building. Michigan State has this part figured out better than just about anyone.
But, Storm. How many away games did Michigan State play this nonconference? I count one.
Pretty sure they're in the middle of home and homes with Louisville and Florida. Played KU on a neutral site. My point is that our RPI coming out of the non con is going to be the best of Fran's tenure at this stage. And why? Because we challenged ourselves in the non con. Point being that a good schedule with top 100 opponents and neutral site games are way more valuable, even if you lose, than beating up on the 200+ RPI teams at home. When both Drake and UNI consistently fall into that category is when we should consider taking them off the schedule. Not wanting them around at this point just makes us look like we're chicken sh!ts. Play them and beat them.
I get what you're saying. My only two points are:
It's not about being chicken shits. (Or looking like it.)
We only have so many nonconference games, three are already home/away series, fans would like some games to attend...and I don't count exhibition games.
Seems to me you don't matter and will take what you're given whether you like it or not.
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