Why is it that there is beef/animosity between these two and a lot of former wrestlers/coaches? Schwab, Ramos, Borschel, Metcalf, StJohn, Gilman and more. We have very average assistant coaches but none of these guys were hired or kept around, why? M*, Telford and Dennis don't hold a candle to these guys. Penn State keeps all of their studs around and adds more from around the country but we can't even keep our own guys around. Something stinks and it is time for it to change. Our results are going to keep going down hill in the future if we don't bring in some young hammers as coaches and at the HWC.
Tom and Terry
- Thread starter WEH8ST8HAWK
- Start date
I would say you grow apart. Once you're coaching for another team that relationship is different. You're now both striving for the same goal. Just because people don't talk on the phone doesn't mean they've beef. They all see each other all the time at events and we never hear any stories so the beef can't be that bad.
Based on the number of times I have seen this similar post from you...I am thinking that Tom and Terry are doing it just to spite you. 
The beef started before they started coaching for other teams and is the reason they left. Why are they all gone and we have who we have? Penn State keeps their studs. Ohio State keeps theirs. We don't. The facts are the facts. I know some don't like anything that questions anything but our staff is sub par for Iowa wrestling and anyone who doesn't see that is blind and ok with 2-10th place.
Tom makes his assistants wrestle off for the positions. Believe it or not, M* and Telford dominated every name you mentioned on that list to earn and keep their jobs.
If you only knew how important Star is to the program. He may not be as flashy as some think but he is vital to the program and honestly we would not have half the guys we have or had over the years.
The only one I would say there is still some animosity with is St.John and a lot of that is on Derek.
There are guys who left after their career was over at psu to coach somewhere else. Out of the group you listed Gilman is the only one still competing. Would love to keep most the guys you listed on staff, but that's not the way it works.
Agreed. I was always a fan of M*...but was questioning just how good of a coach he was...until I listened to the Washed Up Walkons podcast and he was on it...he is a great coach and recruiter and vital to the Hawks. I'd say he makes the machine go. Hawks have a lot of issues, but M* is not one of them.
Vinny Joseph and Mark Hall agree. So do Kyle Snyder and Spencer Lee.
I have always enjoyed your style of writing/posting. Post something thoughtful/correct/interesting...then take it several steps too far. It's entertaining, but when you do that, the point gets lost.
(The above applies for anything other than one of your Brent Metcalf man love posts.)
pst has had same coaches from the beginning, the "studs" still around are are wrestling.
My guess is this has a lot to do with PSU having the money plan to keep their guys in town. If you’re going to make less going somewhere to be a top tier assistant why leave?
I don’t know the guy who backed Beat the Streets, and I don’t think he has anything to do with PSU, but I know he’s the kind of financial guy who has the Capitol to get all the banks and investors to back him when he makes a move. And when you’re a capital investor like that you guarantee yourself returns well over 10% when you get behind something. Why all the banks back him.
My point is, someone injected a lot of financial capital into PSU wrestling and they made it payoff. Something we could do in Iowa but we need that big influx of cash.
I don’t know the guy who backed Beat the Streets, and I don’t think he has anything to do with PSU, but I know he’s the kind of financial guy who has the Capitol to get all the banks and investors to back him when he makes a move. And when you’re a capital investor like that you guarantee yourself returns well over 10% when you get behind something. Why all the banks back him.
My point is, someone injected a lot of financial capital into PSU wrestling and they made it payoff. Something we could do in Iowa but we need that big influx of cash.
Watch the interview that Metcalf just did with Stalemates maybe? It was really good and I didn't pick up on anything from it that showed he had a beef with Tom and Terry. Actually, Brent said he had the same mindset as them and that is why he went to Iowa to be coached by them. Any rifts now are blown out of proportion was basically what he said. I think Brent would come back to Iowa if they offered him to be honest.
Idk there was plenty in that interview that showed Brett doesn't think as highly of them as he once did. Look at the way he talked about the Gilman fight night fiasco. Without saying it explicitly, he basically said the Iowa room is a cult with an everybody is out to get them mentality and that Gilman would understand that it was silly once he left. And sure enough, Gilman sought him out to tell him he was right a few years later.
I really miss the 2020-21 seasons where the vibe and image of this team was so positive and fun. The team seemed so tight and the environment seemed great. Once stuff started to go wrong on the mat, the vibe shifted back to the previous decade's vibe - insular, mysterious, aggrieved.
To me that reads as a larger indictment of our other coaches ability or willingness to recruit. I do believe that Iowa is behind on recent recruiting strategies. Hence the “binder” that Larry Lee gave to them.
I am grateful for the work M* does with his relationship building with recruits. He’s a great guy, but you saying we wouldn’t have half the guys we do means that we are doing something wrong.
It's not a good thing that Morningstar is so essential. Given his failure to develop the middle and upperweight talent he's been handed, he should be upgraded as soon as possible. The fact they can't do that because *apparently* he's the only guy on staff who can recruit is a huge problem.
That fire and competitive side that T n T have seems to be something they look for in recruits as well sometimes. That mindset probably changes in most guys as they mature. I could see how wrestlers with the same personality as Tom and Terry could eventually butt heads down the road. Most people don't hold grudges forever and move on eventually. I think the narrative that all the former wrestlers have burnt bridges with the Brands brothers is blown way out of proportion imo.
Last edited:
heck tnt butt heads with each other
I read in an article that the Sanderson boys butt heads all the time too. Cunningham is the mediator that keeps the peace. Probably a reason why Carl doesn’t want to let him go.
DSJ was a mean, stingy, and mean bastard on the mat. Mean as f***. Didn’t quite have the skillset to match (and he was very skilled), but his attitude rocked. Tough to hate on him if he has the same mentality for someone else, just because its for someone else.
Vincenzo Joseph is on his second non-PSU Asst coaching job (Stanford & ASU). Mark Hall is an Asst Coach at Penn. Ed Ruth is an Asst Coach at Illinois. Molinaro has coached at VA Tech and ASU. Brady Berge coaches for SDSU. Andrew Alton coaches for Franklin & Marshall. Many of the rest of the best are still competing. Think you might just be uninformed.
Last edited:
Please enlighten us about the beef that you have inside knowledge of with specific details with years dates, etc.
TnT have butted heads with each other since the day they were born, I’m guessing. A mutual friend once told me that he woke up from a nap in the back seat of a vehicle heading south for spring break to TnT having a fist fight in the front seat with one of them driving.
I concur 100 percent. And the guys we're keeping (apart from Lee) aren't offensive killers. In fact they're more like mediocre NFL quarterbacks: game managers who hope to win with a solid running game (running = hand-fighting or running away from any offense); and defense, which along with hand-fighting is all we do at 149-197 for 90 percent of our matches. Like you said, we need change. We need to bring in top tier talent from outside the Iowa pool. And I'd love to see someone like David Taylor lead the HWC. We've got to bring in a top gun if we're going to turn the program around. The women's side of the house is rocking, but we haven't done anything on the men's side for a while. In the end I just want Iowa wrestling to improve; I want to see Iowa wrestlers on the mat Saturday night at NCAAs, and I want the HWC to be competitive.
Last edited:
If you are not butting heads with your team occasionally you likely are not super successful. You need other team members to challenge each other. I would bet that happens at Iowa and PSU.
I know full well how important he is in all of your eyes. Spencer, Metcalf, Matt McD, Ramos the list goes on could do the same exact job with far more name recognition and be better for the guys to roll with.
It could of been. Why do we end up with guys like Telford and Dennis and M* with the names we have had to choose from. It makes absolutely no sense.
Lol.... Some of us are around the team more than others. Why is it that you think our hammers, Ramos, Metcalf, McD, StJohn, Borschel, you know the Iowa style guys aren't here and we have a guy like M* that wrestled slow as hell and took 1 shot a match as our coach. I'll hang up and listen. Metcalf and Ramos would both be huge upgrades over M* in every way. Why aren't they here?
An analogy I’ll put out for consideration — catchers are seldom the most athletic or flashy players with huge offensive stats and name recognition, but they often make great coaches.
Maybe M* is a catcher. Where his own personal offensive skill/experience/name falls short, he makes up for it in spades with intellect and ability to communicate effectively, manage different personalities, and connect with people.
I’m not necessarily here to defend Morningstar. I think our opinions are more aligned on him than not. But the last few posts are what I was referring to in my earlier message. Bringing up guys who have electively chosen not to be college wrestling coaches, including at least one (or is it two?) that have been canned as coaches, and saying they would obviously be better harms the credibility of the point you’re making.
And I know I’ve said it before, as have others, but Metcalf’s track record at ISU is not very good. Even the best middle weight guy they have—who was going to be a stud no matter where he went—has arguably regressed over the past few years. If and when we are looking for new assistants, we need to aim higher. He’d be nothing but a feel good story, IMHO.
Metcalf is a coach elsewhere as is Ramos. Not sure either have applied for a men's coaching job at Iowa. Ramos was eyeing the woman's assistant job but it obviously never happened
