Transgender patients sue Wisconsin for not covering their surgeries

[BrianNole09]

I get it. The only reason you 'know" you're male is because everybody says you are. You have no feelings about it at all...it's all extrinsic. So you don't really know you're male...you just take everybody's word on it.

What if everybody told you that you were a female? Would you then know you were a female? A simple yes or no would suffice.

Sigh again. I use the opinion of actual scientists (Doctors) to confirm what I know. Your questions are inane and irrelevant, as always.

I guess using your stupid logic, one can't know anything for sure.

How can you know you actually exist and aren't just living in the matrix or in someone's computer?

You never respond to any questions here. You are the worst teacher ever.

How am I NOT male? What makes me a female, in your view?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Sigh again. I use the opinion of actual scientists (Doctors) to confirm what I know. Your questions are inane and irrelevant, as always.

I guess using your stupid logic, one can't know anything for sure.

How can you know you actually exist and aren't just living in the matrix or in someone's computer?

You never respond to any questions here. You are the worst teacher ever.

How am I NOT male? What makes me a female, in your view?

LOL...more deflection. When did I say you were female? That's a lie. You shouldn't lie - I think it's against a rule or something.

YOU established the parameters for your "maleness". I'm simply exploring YOUR declarations. You're male because the doctor said so. You're male because it says so on your birth certificate. You're male because you produce sperm (that kind of "begs the question" - what were you when you were 5?). So when you say you KNOW you're male that's what you base that on. So you say.

I simply posed the hypothetical which you refuse to answer. What if your doctor pronounced you female at birth? What if your BC stated that you were female? What if you had been raised as a female? Would you then KNOW you were female? These are YOUR criteria for declaring that you're male...all extrinsic, nothing intrinsic. Quit running away when you get called on them.

 

[BrianNole09]

LOL...more deflection. When did I say you were female? That's a lie. You shouldn't lie - I think it's against a rule or something.

YOU established the parameters for your "maleness". I'm simply exploring YOUR declarations. You're male because the doctor said so. You're male because it says so on your birth certificate. You're male because you produce sperm (that kind of "begs the question" - what were you when you were 5?). So when you say you KNOW you're male that's what you base that on. So you say.

I simply posed the hypothetical which you refuse to answer. What if your doctor pronounced you female at birth? What if your BC stated that you were female? What if you had been raised as a female? Would you then KNOW you were female? These are YOUR criteria for declaring that you're male...all extrinsic, nothing intrinsic. Quit running away when you get called on them.

I've already answered your questions. YOU won't respond to any of my questions because it exposes the absurdity of your position.

If my Doctor pronounced me female at birth, that would be contradicted by all the Doctors I've seen in the decades since, who have pronounced me male.

Now, what do YOU identify as? Are you male or female? Why?

How can a person actually know anything about anything for sure?

I've already answered your inane questions...so you should be able to answer a few of mine.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I've already answered your questions. YOU won't respond to any of my questions because it exposes the absurdity of your position.

If my Doctor pronounced me female at birth, that would be contradicted by all the Doctors I've seen in the decades since, who have pronounced me male.

Now, what do YOU identify as? Are you male or female? Why?

I've already answered your inane questions...so you should be able to answer a few of mine.

You simply can't answer on point. I suspect I know why. Let's try this one more time - the ONLY reason you know you're male is because everybody says so. That's YOUR claim. Your claim is that our self-awareness of our gender is wholly imposed on us from outside.

Since that is the only reason you believe you're male, I could convince you that you were female if everybody told you that it was so. You would grow up thinking you were female, you would like the same kinds of things females like, and you would like boys because that's what (most) girls do. I'm not even going to ask you to confirm this because you've made it crystal clear across multiple posts. There's nothing going on in your brain that tells you that you're male other than the pronouncements of people around you. That's interesting.

 

[BrianNole09]

You simply can't answer on point. I suspect I know why. Let's try this one more time - the ONLY reason you know you're male is because everybody says so. That's YOUR claim. Your claim is that our self-awareness of our gender is wholly imposed on us from outside.

Since that is the only reason you believe you're male, I could convince you that you were female if everybody told you that it was so. You would grow up thinking you were female, you would like the same kinds of things females like, and you would like boys because that's what (most) girls do. I'm not even going to ask you to confirm this because you've made it crystal clear across multiple posts. There's nothing going on in your brain that tells you that you're male other than the pronouncements of people around you. That's interesting.

Sigh.

No, I never stated it was the ONLY reason. I clearly stated that I have male body parts and don't have female body parts. I can look down and see them.

Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend? You're a pretty terrible poster overall, but you are reaching new heights in this thread.

Are you a troll?

You can't even read well and you claim to be a teacher.

Scary stuff.

This thread has been a complete waste of time, which is normal when you show up.

I gotta run. I award you no points, I didn't learn anything from you (as usual) and may God have mercy on your confused soul.

 

[swagsurfer02]

Might as well of identified as 21 when I was 14 so I could drink earlier

Biological aging is under genetic control to an extent. Chronological aging, sad to report, is controlled by the calendar.

Oh Benjamin Button

 

[tarheelbybirth]

No, I never stated it was the ONLY reason. I clearly stated that I have male body parts and don't have female body parts. I can look down and see them.

Run and hide. It's your best bet. I get it...you're maleness is determined by what other people tell you and by looking down at your little dangly thing - which is only an indication of maleness because you've been told so. Again...nothing intrinsic tells you you're male. You have no sense of maleness..it's all imposed from the outside. Had it been imposed on you that you were female from birth and you one day looked down and saw that little dangly thing...LOL...wouldn't you be confused THEN.

 

[Greenway12]

Aha, the old 'gender is a social construct' argument. A tired feminist theory that says gender is all about nurture and not about nature. Is this psychobabble being taught in schools these days?

 

[Rudolph]

This is an interesting thread. Tarheel is owning a few in here in a way I'm not sure their respective brains of those he's owning will allow them to recognize.

Let me try to dumb this down.

1. There's more to gender determination (and identity, thusly) than meets the eye (literally and figuratively). Meaning it's not just about the things that do or don't grow on your body. It's a little more complex.
2. Let's say there are three factors that make a person "male" or "female". One is genetic code. Another is body parts. And the last is external, what society thinks and tells you what you are. Sometimes these three things can be at odds with one another. If they're not at odds with one another, be appreciative, because clearly it is very difficult for those for whom these three things are not in concert. There are hermaphrodites in our species, for fvck sakes. That alone should allow people to grasp that this is not always some clean binary construct we're dealing with here.
3. Brian you're missing the point. Many points, actually.
4. Swag doesn't really care. But Tarheel is owning him just the same.
5. Garry: hopeless I'm afraid.

This whole thing isn't that difficult. It may be difficult for people to grasp if they have only experienced (or think they've only experienced) males and females in their most spectrum-polar iterations. But there is a lot of stuff in between (pun intended). And sometimes it's really messy (and often tragic).

 

[Urohawk]

My wife and I had no obvious cause identified for infertility after three years of trying. We are both from healthy families with no known genetic issues. We both have advanced degrees. We are financially secure. We are healthy and fit. But, you aren’t ok with our very healthy IVF baby from a genetically normal embryo because of possible unknown minor genetic issues we may be harboring?

Maybe the world needs more “all natural” babies so we can someday make Idiocracy a reality? Considering the “peak” of egg health comes in the very early reproductive years, maybe you’d prefer to see more teenage pregnancy to maximize that genetic fitness? Perhaps a full genetic cleanse would be more desirable from a UroHawk perspective?

What are your thoughts on repair of urethral stricture disease? If a guy gets an obliterative stricture from gonorrhea or from “traumatic injury disease of the dumb”, wouldn’t it be better to give him a suprapubic tube for life or perineal urethrostomy than fix his stricture and risk letting him reproduce?

If you want to point to IVF as an enemy of natural selection, then you should spend the next month driving to work without your glasses. Further, shouldn’t treatment of other potential reproductive issues like erectile dysfunction, buried penis, proximal hypospadias, and other pathology that may be related to “gene issues” be discouraged? What about issues with embryologic development that could be related to unknown “deplorable” genetics like UPJ obstruction, horseshoe kidney, cryptorchidism, and posterior urethral valves? Just leave those patients to fend for themselves? Or is that different because it pays your bills?

Plenty of urologists benefit financially from infertility treatment. I personally don't. I don't have an issue with how you and your family decided to have children. many of the things you mentioned are acquired conditions. However, we have a continuously lowering sperm count over the last several decades. There may be an increased cancer risk in IVF children. There may be some long term effects that add up over generations. We don't know.

As for coverage, i think we should probably cover it in most cases. Most are not genetic issues. For the most part I am a live and let live type of guy. I'm happy IVF worked for you. I hope your kids bring you as much joy as mine do to me. Life's to short to begrudge people's choices as to what's best.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Aha, the old 'gender is a social construct' argument. A tired feminist theory that says gender is all about nurture and not about nature. Is this psychobabble being taught in schools these days?

This is funny. Are you calling @BrianNole09 a tired feminist? Nuture over nature is exactly what he's been claiming, you know.

 

[claykenny]

Plenty of urologists benefit financially from infertility treatment. I personally don't. I don't have an issue with how you and your family decided to have children. many of the things you mentioned are acquired conditions. However, we have a continuously lowering sperm count over the last several decades. There may be an increased cancer risk in IVF children. There may be some long term effects that add up over generations. We don't know.

As for coverage, i think we should probably cover it in most cases. Most are not genetic issues. For the most part I am a live and let live type of guy. I'm happy IVF worked for you. I hope your kids bring you as much joy as mine do to me. Life's to short to begrudge people's choices as to what's best.

There’s an increased cancer risk in kids born to older mothers. Did the Israeli study that found higher risk of cancer in IVF babies account for maternal age?

 

[lucas80]

If I can't get my insurance to pay for my daughters molar removal surgery, I'm not sure how changing your sex should be considered life threatening. This is fully an elective surgery. I too hope the judge throws the case out.

Why is the surgery being denied?
There is research out there on the internet that will explain to you why TG people have physical ailments that surgery will alleviate.

 

[silasstarr]

Why is the surgery being denied?
There is research out there on the internet that will explain to you why TG people have physical ailments that surgery will alleviate.

If they can prove a life threatening ailment than sure, insurance can pick up the tab. I serious doubt that is the case in the majority of these procedures though.