Tuesdays With Torbee: Fran Fatigue - it's real, but is it fair?

[Bulldogs1974]

The apathy is warranted. In fact he may be the poster child for apathy. If Fran had taken over from a coach that had a similar resume to his, he would be on a much hotter seat or gone. Only at Iowa do we let: "he followed lickliter" lower expectations. We are in a who's who of sweet 16 droughts. We have fans that think scoring 16 points but giving up 20 is better than scoring 10 and giving up 4.

I'm not sure if Fran's devotion to lack of defense is more offensive than Brian's lack of offensive. His stubbornness is on par with Kirk's but he lacks anywhere near the success of kirk.

Fran recruits the same kid: skinny, long, and can shoot. That works in tightly officiated games between athletically similar teams, you know where Iowa pads it's stats. But, against teams with athletes that are physically strong we rarely come out on top. Purdue/michigan state own us because they are physical. Look at the big 12 right now, we'd be getting beat by 20 nightly. This is a refusal to adapt on frans part which by definition, in my opinion, only results in apathy.
.
Frans virtues as a person is well known but his deficiencies as a coach have never been addressed.

 

[EvolutionDenier]

Do you losers not remember that a mere 11 years ago Fran was 21 points away from winning the NIT?

The post-season NIT.

And what has Baylor done since then?

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I see this a lot, but frankly, I totally disagree. The NCAA tournament is such a crapshoot and based on so much luck, matchups, whether your team is hot or not, etc., etc.

It's like the baseball playoffs - get your "ticket" (i.e. get an invite) and see what happens --- like buying a lotto ticket.

People forget Iowa was a couple missed free throws away from a Sweet 16 with one of Fran's WEAKEST NCAA tournament teams.

It's far from a crap shoot. holy crap

The tournament and season is dictated by guards and defense. We have neither and have had neither in his tenure.

 

[tumorboy]

Blows my mind on the lack of guard recruiting under Fran. The antics don’t bother me that much because its passion. Perhaps it’s a case of wanting more than his players too often. It all feels similar to Ground Hog Day watching fast guards and wings running lay up drills through. Dr. Tom could at least match it and overcome it with a battle attrition.

 

[ICWestfan]

It's far from a crap shoot. holy crap

The tournament and season is dictated by guards and defense. We have neither and have had neither in his tenure.

Agreed, you can go out to KenPom and see who is top 25 in OE and top 25 in DE and pick those to teams to make it to the sweet 16, and farther.

 

[CarterHall]

Get a product the fans like and people will go. Look at the women. This it's the fans fault, it's the building's fault is BS. Don't put out a Missouri Valley level team and fill the nonconference home schedule with sub 300 level duds. Win something. Make the sweet 16. And stop putting the blame everywhere except where it belongs. Fran.

 

[JRHawk2003]

That guy has made a lot of money being mediocre.

Failing upward

 

[JRHawk2003]

I wanted Davis to stay so.....

If the cheap ass UI would have bought out Dr. Tom for 1 year no one would have cared if he left after a 1st round NIT loss in 1998.

 

[Chishawk1425]

Failing upward

He did well at New Mexico and has a good team at Nevada this season yes he fleeced UCLA and to a lesser extent us.

 

[mthawkeyes]

Defense. I can't stand watching Iowa MBB, not just because the defensive fundamentals are bad, but it often appears as if the players aren't even TRYING very hard to make a stop. As inept as Iowa football is on offense, I never get the sense that the players on the field aren't putting forth effort, but I don't think the same can be said of the MBB team. I can't stomach watching it.

 

[McLovin32]

Get a product the fans like and people will go. Look at the women. This it's the fans fault, it's the building's fault is BS. Don't put out a Missouri Valley level team and fill the nonconference home schedule with sub 300 level duds. Win something.

This is a dumb post. There's a lot of things to complain about w/ Fran's teams but saying he routinely puts out a "Missouri Valley level team" is absurd. And our nonconference hasn't been amazingly tough, but it has not be "sub 300 level duds," either.

 

[Chishawk1425]

Defense. I can't stand watching Iowa MBB, not just because the defensive fundamentals are bad, but it often appears as if the players aren't even TRYING very hard to make a stop. As inept as Iowa football is on offense, I never get the sense that the players on the field aren't putting forth effort, but I don't think the same can be said of the MBB team. I can't stomach watching it.

I enjoy NBA hoops and offense over D in general but you HAVE to get stops when you aren't scoring. We can't do that or flip that switch and as some mentioned above the guards Fran has had to operate with are subpar at best overall. March Madness is a Guards game.

 

[bagdropper]

All I know is I don't really watch Iowa men's basketball any more. I would watch more if they'd actually do something in the NCAA tournament, but they simply haven't done a damn thing really under Fran's watch from a national/tournament perspective.

I read box scores, but that's about it. I do still care about the program, but they're just not compelling enough to watch religiously like I used to.

I've watched a lot more women's bball recently because the program is a LOT better nationally. Bluder's got that program rolling - they're compelling to watch.

If the men want me to watch more, they're just going to have to go out there and WIN me back. PROVE to me they're more than a middle/lower tier power program.

 

[Moral]

Get a product the fans like and people will go. Look at the women. This it's the fans fault, it's the building's fault is BS. Don't put out a Missouri Valley level team and fill the nonconference home schedule with sub 300 level duds. Win something. Make the sweet 16. And stop putting the blame everywhere except where it belongs. Fran.

The women have what will likely be considered the GOAT of NCAAW. Before that the had Gustafson who was tearing it up.

It's not easy to just go land a GOAT and a NPOY, granted, Iowa did with Garza.

 

[Chishawk1425]

The women have what will likely be considered the GOAT of NCAAW. Before that the had Gustafson who was tearing it up.

It's not easy to just go land a GOAT and a NPOY, granted, Iowa did with Garza.

And yikes what the women will look like when Clark moves on. Big time drop and Bluder probably retiring.

 

[Moral]

And yikes what the women will look like when Clark moves on. Big time drop and Bluder probably retiring.

I think they will move the focus to Stuelke and be pretty respectable, but a massive drop off guaranteed.

 

[Chishawk1425]

I think they will move the focus to Stuelke and be pretty respectable, but a massive drop off guaranteed.

Yep bubble team not a must watch Juggernaut.

 

[McLovin32]

If the men want me to watch more, they're just going to have to go out there and WIN me back. PROVE to me they're more than a middle/lower tier power program.

To be fair, they've finished in the Top 5 of the Big Ten 7 of the last 10 years. There's not much about the last decade that says Iowa is a "lower tier" program with the exception of a few rebuilding years. 2 of those years they placed 6th.

 

[Chishawk1425]

To be fair, they've finished in the Top 5 of the Big Ten 7 of the last 10 years. There's not much about the last decade that says Iowa is a "lower tier" program with the exception of a few rebuilding years. 2 of those years they placed 6th.

Great point. For me it's just the feeling of zero hope in the BIG Dance and the clear whys. He has hit his ceiling with his offense/fast tempo and max possession strategy only. We need better guards and some defense and that isn't happening. When Iowa was the 2 seed and we got very unlucky with our draw of a very underseeded 7 seed Oregon in the 2nd rd I knew we were toast. They embarrassed us that day.

 

[McLovin32]

Great point. For me it's just the feeling of zero hope in the BIG Dance and the clear whys. He has hit his ceiling with his offense/fast tempo and max possession strategy only. We need better guards and some defense and that isn't happening. When Iowa was the 2 seed and we got very unlucky with our draw of a very underseeded 7 seed Oregon in the 2nd rd I knew we were toast. They embarrassed us that day.

Totally agree with everything here. I'm never confident when the tourny rolls around that we will be able to do much. The defense is ****ing infuriating, every year.

If we're being honest, the most confidence I had in a team was the 2019-20 squad. Not because of their record, but they just kind of had the "it" factor, and were starting to roll pretty good before covid shut down the season. That team was pretty stacked with some dudes that could play ball.

 

[IACub]

I am one who totally has "Fran Fatigue." I haven't cared about men's basketball in years. I get a little interested around conference tourney time, because that seems to be the only time Iowa is good. This year, I don't think I can name 4 players on the team.

That said, he still did one of my favorite things in the history of Iowa sports.

 

[Chishawk1425]

Totally agree with everything here. I'm never confident when the tourny rolls around that we will be able to do much. The defense is ****ing infuriating, every year.

If we're being honest, the most confidence I had in a team was the 2019-20 squad. Not because of their record, but they just kind of had the "it" factor, and were starting to roll pretty good before covid shut down the season. That team was pretty stacked with some dudes that could play ball.

Yep agree 100% feel for Kriener and those guys not being able to go. 2019 tourney and almost beating TN after being down 20 and getting it to OT showed some massive toughness and grit too but it's been since then besides Garza and sometimes a Murray willing us to victory. And great BIGs or Wings don't win games themselves in March.

 

[Moral]

Totally agree with everything here. I'm never confident when the tourny rolls around that we will be able to do much. The defense is ****ing infuriating, every year.

If we're being honest, the most confidence I had in a team was the 2019-20 squad. Not because of their record, but they just kind of had the "it" factor, and were starting to roll pretty good before covid shut down the season. That team was pretty stacked with some dudes that could play ball.

Nunge called dibs on the title that year. That team did seem to be heating up at the right time.

 

[Chishawk1425]

Someone post the FranCon scale that still makes me LOL

 

[McLovin32]

Nunge called dibs on the title that year. That team did seem to be heating up at the right time.

Yup, I remember genuinely being sad when they called off the Big Ten Tournament that year. I wasn't sad because I couldn't watch them, I was sad for the players because they were hitting their stride, they had a deep roster, and they had multiple players that could step up, and then they didn't get to test themselves in the tournaments. Man that sucked.

 

[joelbc1]

Gatens won't be head coach.

@St. Louis Hawk - it's been 18 (?) yrs since Alford left, and 15 (?) since Lick left. You really can't hang the apathy hat on those 2 anymore.

Perhaps you can lay the apathy towards basketball on the Iowa fan??
Dean has given Iowa fan 3 years of “POY” and lots of exciting offensive football. Still, Iowa fan looks to the negative. Iowa basketball got relative when Ralph was coaching. Yet every year, he was rebuilding…Iowa had a couple of years under Davis (with Raveling ball players) whe re they “reloaded”… but never a reg season title…in fact since Olson Iowa has had one share of a title? Boys…let’s be realistic about Iowa BB…. We ain’t making a habit out of hangin’ banners from the rafters. We never have. Iowa fans are bored with being decent. Remember,,,, the “next level” goes both ways.

 

[Moral]

Someone post the FranCon scale that still makes me LOL

I am one who totally has "Fran Fatigue." I haven't cared about men's basketball in years. I get a little interested around conference tourney time, because that seems to be the only time Iowa is good. This year, I don't think I can name 4 players on the team.

That said, he still did one of my favorite things in the history of Iowa sports.

I'll list off the players that matter for you: Carter Kingsbury

 

[dekhawk]

IMHO, Fran is not a great recruiter. I think we got lucky with the development of the Murries, both lightly recruited. I believe Garza was a 3 star that worked his ass off. But I don’t get excited with Fran’s recruits. You can’t make horses out of horses&$!

 

[Chishawk1425]

I'll list off the players that matter for you: Carter Kingsbury

How do you get a pic onto here?

 

[OhAdam]

To me it comes down to three things - still a hangover from when Alford and Lick tried to kill the program, lack of any NCAA success despite the great success in bringing in Murray, Murray, Garza, Joe W, etc, and the failure - whether intentional or unintentional - to improve the defense.

We are 122 in defensive efficiency.

If it keeps happening every year, much like the Iowa football offense, it tells me as a fan that they either don’t know how to improve the D or they don’t care.

Yes. It's like being in a relationship with someone — personal or professional — who has objective problems to address, and, yet, they never seem to get addressed. The relationship is naturally going to sour.

I'm a defender of Fran despite the above thought, partly for reasons noted by Torbee's article, and partly because the sideline behavior thing — I think — is overblown in the context of those whose sideline behavior seems to get a pass. Namely folks like Izzo who reacts not unlike Fran to seemingly every other call, seemingly in some games to every call that goes against his team. Fran, by contrast, says nothing most of the time, then erupts. So it stands out. But which is worse? Fran, also by contrast, is 6'5" and thus has a large presence, especially next to your typical official. Izzo is 4'8" and, you know, is almost cute in his apoplectic fits.

I feel very much the way my first few sentences suggest I feel, but then I, like Torbee, see how much Fran's guys seem to like him, I see how the bench behaves — there's something very right about the culture within that program. Everybody is pulling for each other. I'm enjoying them. They're fighting for each other, fighting to find ways to win games. It's obvious.

I wish I could make games. Soon, maybe. In the meantime, the couch ain't bad.

 

[Chishawk1425]

Yes. It's like being in a relationship with someone — personal or professional — who has objective problems to address, and, yet, they never seem to get addressed. The relationship is naturally going to sour.

I'm a defender of Fran despite the above thought, partly for reasons noted by Torbee's article, and partly because the sideline behavior thing — I think — is overblown in the context of those whose sideline behavior seems to get a pass. Namely folks like Izzo who reacts not unlike Fran to seemingly every other call, seemingly in some games to every call that goes against his team. Fran, by contrast, says nothing most of the time, then erupts. So it stands out. But which is worse? Fran, also by contrast, is 6'5" and thus has a large presence, especially next to your typical official. Izzo is 4'8" and, you know, is almost cute in his apoplectic fits.

I feel very much the way my first few sentences suggest I feel, but then I, like Torbee, see how much Fran's guys seem to like him, I see how the bench behaves — there's something very right about the culture within that program. Everybody is pulling for each other. I'm enjoying them. They're fighting for each other, fighting to find ways to win games. It's obvious.

I wish I could make games. Soon, maybe. In the meantime, the couch ain't bad.

I agree with you and I was you up until last season. He refuses to adjust his strategy and we all know the outcome at end of year.

 

[Moral]

How do you get a pic onto here?

I found it via Google image search, right click open on new tab, then I copied the image link and used the post image button.

You can also save and upload a picture to a site like imgbb.com and copy the link from there to post here.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

To be fair, they've finished in the Top 5 of the Big Ten 7 of the last 10 years. There's not much about the last decade that says Iowa is a "lower tier" program with the exception of a few rebuilding years. 2 of those years they placed 6th.

It's hard to predict and easy to use hindsight but. Imagine garza's senior year team coached by a defensive minded coach. The talent on those teams was better than what the end results were. Look at who got minutes on those teams over others.
We minimized one of our greatest stretches of players because of lack of defense and physicality.

 

[Moral]

Yes. It's like being in a relationship with someone — personal or professional — who has objective problems to address, and, yet, they never seem to get addressed. The relationship is naturally going to sour.

I'm a defender of Fran despite the above thought, partly for reasons noted by Torbee's article, and partly because the sideline behavior thing — I think — is overblown in the context of those whose sideline behavior seems to get a pass. Namely folks like Izzo who reacts not unlike Fran to seemingly every other call, seemingly in some games to every call that goes against his team. Fran, by contrast, says nothing most of the time, then erupts. So it stands out. But which is worse? Fran, also by contrast, is 6'5" and thus has a large presence, especially next to your typical official. Izzo is 4'8" and, you know, is almost cute in his apoplectic fits.

I feel very much the way my first few sentences suggest I feel, but then I, like Torbee, see how much Fran's guys seem to like him, I see how the bench behaves — there's something very right about the culture within that program. Everybody is pulling for each other. I'm enjoying them. They're fighting for each other, fighting to find ways to win games. It's obvious.

I wish I could make games. Soon, maybe. In the meantime, the couch ain't bad.

Sometimes I feel like the fans are just expecting Fran to lose it, and their fan response is already predetermined. Same with the refs, Fran has got the boot for things some coaches do every game. I find it all pretty silly.

 

[EasyHawk]

I still watch every Big 10 men's game on TV, excluding those on BTN+. It amazes me every year for all the great shooters we have, how poorly they shoot in many games. And it is painful watching them try to play defense. But I continue to watch and there are certainly fun games. I used to go to a game or two a year, but haven't since 2019. I heard on a podcast last night how awful the 8:30 Friday night game is for attendance, and that is for high school and gives the men no chance at decent attendance. As far as I can tell, people only go on Saturdays and Sunday afternoons.

 

[EvolutionDenier]

the Murries

rotted his ass off

 

[McLovin32]

It's hard to predict and easy to use hindsight but. Imagine garza's senior year team coached by a defensive minded coach. The talent on those teams was better than what the end results were. Look at who got minutes on those teams over others.
We minimized one of our greatest stretches of players because of lack of defense and physicality.

I totally agree with you. I was just pointing out that during Fran's tenure, there's probably only been maybe 2 years that we could have been considered a "lower tier" team. It's easy for folks to let frustration distort their memories of past teams.

 

[Chishawk1425]

It's hard to predict and easy to use hindsight but. Imagine garza's senior year team coached by a defensive minded coach. The talent on those teams was better than what the end results were. Look at who got minutes on those teams over others.
We minimized one of our greatest stretches of players because of lack of defense and physicality.

We had terrible guards. Oregon split them and ate them up again and again and again.

 

[AuroraHawk]

To me it comes down to three things - still a hangover from when Alford and Lick tried to kill the program, lack of any NCAA success despite the great success in bringing in Murray, Murray, Garza, Joe W, etc, and the failure - whether intentional or unintentional - to improve the defense.

We are 122 in defensive efficiency.

If it keeps happening every year, much like the Iowa football offense, it tells me as a fan that they either don’t know how to improve the D or they don’t care.

It's almost as if you read a group text that I authored to close friends of mine a couple of weeks ago on this very subject. That only factor you didn't mention is the influence of $$$ on game scheduling and the availability of games on television.

Gone is the reliable Thursday at 7:00 p.m. and Saturday at 1:00 p.m. schedule. Games could be any day of the week at seemingly any possible time. If the only availability to see an Iowa basketball game at 6:00 p.m. on a Tuesday night involved going to CHA, I'd think that there'd be an uptick in attendance.

Put the factors that you mention into a less than predictable schedule with the ready availability of games on TV, you get the current level of apathy.

I can't also help but wonder what attendance would be like if the Des Moines metro and Cedar Rapids metro switched locations. Would attendance at CHA increase and would attendance at Hilton decrease? I still consider ISU to have a more rabid basketball fanbase but it certainly helps to have the sizable DM metro market (including the rapidly growing Ankeny area) a relatively short drive from the ISU arena.

 

[dekhawk]

Oops on Garza. Fixed that, murries (sp)?