Tyson v. Paul fight

[Tom Paris]

Look i think Paul wins this thing fairly easily because of the age difference.

All of that being said... you can make a good case that 87-89 Tyson was the greatest boxer of all time. By some analysis he was the hardest hitter of all time, perhaps Deontay Wilder has that record now. You cannot explain to someone today what those years in the late 80's were like. Tyson was arguable the biggest sports star on the planet. Something boxing hasn't had since. The black trunks and boots. His menacing appearance and stalking in the ring. What a time to be a little kid.

But we're talking about like a 30 year age gap here. I hope im wrong, but it seems everyone is thinking Mike is going to be late 80's Mike, but that was 35 years ago.

we are all picturing the scariest man on the planet. The guy who dripped charisma and swag. Thay guy hasn't fought in 35 years.

When you go back there though, who did Tyson ACTUALLY beat? He didn't beat all-time greats other than Holmes who was well past his prime. Pretty much every guy who didn't fear Tyson beat him. They stood up to the bully and Mike wilted. I mean, he beat a couple of pretty good fighters but they were nothing like the heavyweights of the 70s and early 80s. There were a lot of guys from the 70s that would have hung with Tyson. They wouldn't all beat him, but they would have hung for sure. Just an opinion from a guy who watched a shit ton of boxing growing up...even USA's Tuesday Night Fights!

Fun fact, I was at Tyson - McNeeley! Coolest sporting event I have ever been to!

 

[DPUboiler]

When you go back there though, who did Tyson ACTUALLY beat? He didn't beat all-time greats other than Holmes who was well past his prime. Pretty much every guy who didn't fear Tyson beat him. They stood up to the bully and Mike wilted. I mean, he beat a couple of pretty good fighters but they were nothing like the heavyweights of the 70s and early 80s. There were a lot of guys from the 70s that would have hung with Tyson. They wouldn't all beat him, but they would have hung for sure. Just an opinion from a guy who watched a shit ton of boxing growing up...even USA's Tuesday Night Fights!

Fun fact, I was at Tyson - McNeeley! Coolest sporting event I have ever been to!

No doubt he didn't have the opponents of those 60's-80's heavyweights. And thr Douglass fight removed the shine of invincibility which I think had as much to do with as anything. Had he never gotten involved with King, I think he ends up top 3 of all time. Unfortunately he basically only had 3 years. But how fun those 3 years were.

 

[Tom Paris]

No doubt he didn't have the opponents of those 60's-80's heavyweights. And thr Douglass fight removed the shine of invincibility which I think had as much to do with as anything. Had he never gotten involved with King, I think he ends up top 3 of all time. Unfortunately he basically only had 3 years. But how fun those 3 years were.

Yep! Great point! King screwed him up. He had a horrible corner for Douglas.

 

[jasonrann]

When you go back there though, who did Tyson ACTUALLY beat? He didn't beat all-time greats other than Holmes who was well past his prime. Pretty much every guy who didn't fear Tyson beat him. They stood up to the bully and Mike wilted. I mean, he beat a couple of pretty good fighters but they were nothing like the heavyweights of the 70s and early 80s. There were a lot of guys from the 70s that would have hung with Tyson. They wouldn't all beat him, but they would have hung for sure. Just an opinion from a guy who watched a shit ton of boxing growing up...even USA's Tuesday Night Fights!

Fun fact, I was at Tyson - McNeeley! Coolest sporting event I have ever been to!

I hope you're trolling or off your meds, an incredibly shitty take. You better rewatch a shit ton of other boxing that you didn't watch.

To answer your question, he beat EVERYONE, most before he even threw a punch. Doesn't matter "all time greats" or whatever the heck, he even put fear in THEM. A former opponent once said "Mike hits you like you stole something from him".

His main mistake was going away from his best trainer and connecting with Don King. The loss to Buster Douglas was bad, but then Buster Douglas treated it like his career saver, which didn't last long.

 

[torbee]

When you go back there though, who did Tyson ACTUALLY beat? He didn't beat all-time greats other than Holmes who was well past his prime. Pretty much every guy who didn't fear Tyson beat him. They stood up to the bully and Mike wilted. I mean, he beat a couple of pretty good fighters but they were nothing like the heavyweights of the 70s and early 80s. There were a lot of guys from the 70s that would have hung with Tyson. They wouldn't all beat him, but they would have hung for sure. Just an opinion from a guy who watched a shit ton of boxing growing up...even USA's Tuesday Night Fights!

Fun fact, I was at Tyson - McNeeley! Coolest sporting event I have ever been to!

The other night they were showing a bunch of the fights from his first couple years as a pro on one of the ESPNs. My lord did he destroy a bunch of giant fat white tomato cans. 😂

Half his opponents looked like guys coming off third shift at Oscar Mayer who may have been drinking on the job.

 

[Tom Paris]

I hope you're trolling or off your meds, an incredibly shitty take. You better rewatch a shit ton of other boxing that you didn't watch.

To answer your question, he beat EVERYONE, most before he even threw a punch. Doesn't matter "all time greats" or whatever the heck, he even put fear in THEM. A former opponent once said "Mike hits you like you stole something from him".

His main mistake was going away from his best trainer and connecting with Don King. The loss to Buster Douglas was bad, but then Buster Douglas treated it like his career saver, which didn't last long.

So...again, like I asked, who did he beat? Who was A GREAT HEAVYWEIGHT that he EVER beat? Carl The Truth Williams? Tony Tubbs? Tony Tucker? Trevor Berbick? Michael Spinks? Tyrell Biggs? In FACT he beat exactly TWO Hall of Fame fighters. Michael Spinks, a light heavyweight who blew up to heavyweight, and an old well past his prime Larry Holmes.

So before you want to talk about meds, and want to shit talk me about boxing history, get your facts straight before you run Tyson is a or the GOAT.

 

[laker3588]

So...again, like I asked, who did he beat? Who was A GREAT HEAVYWEIGHT that he EVER beat? Carl The Truth Williams? Tony Tubbs? Tony Tucker? Trevor Berbick? Michael Spinks? Tyrell Biggs? In FACT he beat exactly TWO Hall of Fame fighters. Michael Spinks, a light heavyweight who blew up to heavyweight, and an old well past his prime Larry Holmes.

So before you want to talk about meds, and want to shit talk me about boxing history, get your facts straight before you run Tyson is a or the GOAT.

Tyson is one of the most overrated overhyped boxers of all time. Tlfought a bunch of tomato cans, journeyman or past prime fighters. When he fought somebody with a pulse he got his ass kicked

 

[jasonrann]

So...again, like I asked, who did he beat? Who was A GREAT HEAVYWEIGHT that he EVER beat? Carl The Truth Williams? Tony Tubbs? Tony Tucker? Trevor Berbick? Michael Spinks? Tyrell Biggs? In FACT he beat exactly TWO Hall of Fame fighters. Michael Spinks, a light heavyweight who blew up to heavyweight, and an old well past his prime Larry Holmes.

So before you want to talk about meds, and want to shit talk me about boxing history, get your facts straight before you run Tyson is a or the GOAT.

Not much of a lesson, but I'm sure you're used to disappointment.

I never said Tyson was the GOAT. For a period from the mid to late '80s, he was the best, and it wasn't close. The results, the demeanor of his opponents, everything. He dominated. He fought the best at the time and crushed them. These '70s guys you're referring too would have pissed their pants against Tyson.

Carry on though.

 

[Tom Paris]

Not much of a lesson, but I'm sure you're used to disappointment.

I never said Tyson was the GOAT. For a period from the mid to late '80s, he was the best, and it wasn't close. The results, the demeanor of his opponents, everything. He dominated. He fought the best at the time and crushed them. These '70s guys you're referring too would have pissed their pants against Tyson.

Carry on though.

 

[seminole97]

Dropped my bet for Tyson.

Needs to go full Balboa mode.

Or

 

[bhawk24bob]

So...again, like I asked, who did he beat?

Kicked my ass every time I made it to him in Punchout

 

[Fan In Black]

Tyson now +160 and Paul -200. I still think its a work.

 

[Bro D]

If Tyson doesn't come out guns blazing in the first round then its all BS

 

[Fan In Black]

they are still using 14 inch gloves?

 

[doughuddl2]

Holy shit!

 

[hawkirugged17]

 

[stickman80]

It takes 1 punch to hurt or knock out Paul. He is old, but Tyson has a shot in round 1 or 2. I would take the odds if I was a betting man. I think in actuality wins 40 to 50% of the time. Yes he is 58 but he knows how to fight.

...the last thing a fighter loses is his punch. Paul is a joke so Tyson does have a chance if he really wants it and isn't just showing up for a payday.

 

[seminole97]

This is what we're all hoping for, right?

 

[Jimmy McGill]

My biggest fear for Tyson is that if Paul was trained well he is going to keep separation due to his superior arm length over Tyson.

Then again, my biggest fear should be Tyson snorts so much cocaine before the fight that he has cardiac arrest in the ring.

 

[jasonrann]

Line seems to be holding firm. Paul -220, Tyson +190. I am probably going to put some fun money on Tyson for grins. He loses, he's done. If the fight is legit, Paul is going to get everything he can handle. Should be fun.

 

[IACub]

I've never been much of a boxing fan, but I remember watching Tyson's fights (on Showtime?) in the 90's. You didn't want to blink because they'd be over in a heartbeat. Now he's fighting Jake Paul, who's part of the generation that makes themselves famous by being famous (and loud and obnoxious). I don't know if I've ever been this invested in a fight. I want Tyson to break Paul's jaw.

 

[torbee]

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Holy shit!

View embedded media

Everyone is good against air.

I think Paul wins. I hope he doesn't. IDK why but I think most of the country wants Tyson to win and so do I.

But 58 is 58 and looking good against a bag doesn't equate in my mind to being able to do well in real life.

I do agree that Tyson's best chance is an early KO. The longer it goes on the more his age will hold him back.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

So a lot of my friends have moved all over the world. We are going to do a zoom meeting for fight.

 

[doughuddl2]

Everyone is good against air.

I think Paul wins. I hope he doesn't. IDK why but I think most of the country wants Tyson to win and so do I.

But 58 is 58 and looking good against a bag doesn't equate in my mind to being able to do well in real life.

I do agree that Tyson's best chance is an early KO. The longer it goes on the more his age will hold him back.

Air don't make that noise when you hit it.

 

[stickman80]

I haven't followed Paul but no secret that a right uppercut could be very handy tonight.

Tyson needs to get close enough to at least land and not swing at air. He will tire quickly wiffing at air and even shots to the arms/shoulders will have an effect on Paul.

I'd love to see Tyson end him with a body shot. That would be a very humiliating ending to the fight for Paul.

 

[Nole Lou]

When you go back there though, who did Tyson ACTUALLY beat? He didn't beat all-time greats other than Holmes who was well past his prime. Pretty much every guy who didn't fear Tyson beat him. They stood up to the bully and Mike wilted. I mean, he beat a couple of pretty good fighters but they were nothing like the heavyweights of the 70s and early 80s. There were a lot of guys from the 70s that would have hung with Tyson. They wouldn't all beat him, but they would have hung for sure. Just an opinion from a guy who watched a shit ton of boxing growing up...even USA's Tuesday Night Fights!

Fun fact, I was at Tyson - McNeeley! Coolest sporting event I have ever been to!

Tom, you and I are in agreement on this! It's nice for there to be one thing we agree on, right?

Tyson's best win is the win over Holmes which was considered a joke at the time. Not only did Holmes go on to fight credibly as a heavyweight for years, NOBODY ever came close to doing what Tyson did to Holmes, and Holmes fought a LOT of good heavyweights. That win against Holmes is Tyson's best, and it's not close.

But there's virtually nothing else to recommend his all-time greatness, other than the way he looked in his wins, until he didn't. People excuse his losses in retrospect, as if every other athlete of all time doesn't go through the growing pains of fame and all kinds of demons. There's no real reason to suggest that Buster Douglass, Holyfield, Lewis don't beat him at any point in his career. You can make a case that he beat some guys on Douglas' level (having beaten a couple guys who beat Douglas), but I don't ever think he beat's THAT night's Douglas. He never touches Holyfield or Lewis.

He also missed remarkable amount of the good heavyweights of his era. It is really weird that besides Holmes his best heavyweight scalp is...Razor Ruddock? A guy literally nobody would remember if it wasn't for fighting Tyson.

He managed to miss Bowe, Morrison, Tim Witherspoon, George Foreman 2.0, Michael Moorer, Ray Mercer, Oliver McCall. No other prominent heavyweight of the era missed so many contemporaries...many of those being extremely tough cookies, in terms of chin, power, or both.

There is literally nothing but the eye test, and that knockout of Holmes maybe, to suggest "all time great." And everyone passes the eye test until they don't.

SO...all that being said...I think he was so overrated for so long that he's underrated in some circles. He's not a "bad" fighter. He's a top 15 heavyweights, bordering on top 10, he thrashed a HELL OF A LOT of B- fighters in an era where activity levels were already starting to go down. He had some very excellent skills and tools that simply must be respected, he wasn't just a lucky punch guy. He was a VERY skilled fighter who's deficiencies lay in strategy, fortitude, discipline, back up plans, etc. And his star power was second to none.

 

[Tom Paris]

Tom, you and I are in agreement on this! It's nice for there to be one thing we agree on, right?

Tyson's best win is the win over Holmes which was considered a joke at the time. Not only did Holmes go on to fight credibly as a heavyweight for years, NOBODY ever came close to doing what Tyson did to Holmes, and Holmes fought a LOT of good heavyweights. That win against Holmes is Tyson's best, and it's not close.

But there's virtually nothing else to recommend his all-time greatness, other than the way he looked in his wins, until he didn't. People excuse his losses in retrospect, as if every other athlete of all time doesn't go through the growing pains of fame and all kinds of demons. There's no real reason to suggest that Buster Douglass, Holyfield, Lewis don't beat him at any point in his career. You can make a case that he beat some guys on Douglas' level (having beaten a couple guys who beat Douglas), but I don't ever think he beat's THAT night's Douglas. He never touches Holyfield or Lewis.

He also missed remarkable amount of the good heavyweights of his era. It is really weird that besides Holmes his best heavyweight scalp is...Razor Ruddock? A guy literally nobody would remember if it wasn't for fighting Tyson.

He managed to miss Bowe, Morrison, Tim Witherspoon, George Foreman 2.0, Michael Moorer, Ray Mercer, Oliver McCall. No other prominent heavyweight of the era missed so many contemporaries...many of those being extremely tough cookies, in terms of chin, power, or both.

There is literally nothing but the eye test, and that knockout of Holmes maybe, to suggest "all time great." And everyone passes the eye test until they don't.

SO...all that being said...I think he was so overrated for so long that he's underrated in some circles. He's not a "bad" fighter. He's a top 15 heavyweights, bordering on top 10, he thrashed a HELL OF A LOT of B- fighters in an era where activity levels were already starting to go down. He had some very excellent skills and tools that simply must be respected, he wasn't just a lucky punch guy. He was a VERY skilled fighter who's deficiencies lay in strategy, fortitude, discipline, back up plans, etc. And his star power was second to none.

I'll even add Tua - that fight I would have LOVED to see - and Ibeabuchi to your list as well.

 

[Stoopsbrother]

I believe that this will end poorly for Iron Mike, that being said
I would really like to see him K.O. that prick Jake Paul

 

[Nole Lou]

I haven't followed Paul but no secret that a right uppercut could be very handy tonight.

Tyson needs to get close enough to at least land and not swing at air. He will tire quickly wiffing at air and even shots to the arms/shoulders will have an effect on Paul.

I'd love to see Tyson end him with a body shot. That would be a very humiliating ending to the fight for Paul.

I do think that there is a narrow path to victory for Tyson through an early body shot KO. I don't know if he can get close enough. Even a journeyman heavyweight of Paul's size could easily keep this version of Tyson at bay, but Paul is sub journeyman heavyweight. That said, Tyson never really knocked guys out or hurt guys badly with body shots in his prime, the body work was mostly to open up the head. But to be fair, that's most heavyweights really.

 

[stickman80]

Tom, you and I are in agreement on this! It's nice for there to be one thing we agree on, right?

Tyson's best win is the win over Holmes which was considered a joke at the time. Not only did Holmes go on to fight credibly as a heavyweight for years, NOBODY ever came close to doing what Tyson did to Holmes, and Holmes fought a LOT of good heavyweights. That win against Holmes is Tyson's best, and it's not close.

But there's virtually nothing else to recommend his all-time greatness, other than the way he looked in his wins, until he didn't. People excuse his losses in retrospect, as if every other athlete of all time doesn't go through the growing pains of fame and all kinds of demons. There's no real reason to suggest that Buster Douglass, Holyfield, Lewis don't beat him at any point in his career. You can make a case that he beat some guys on Douglas' level (having beaten a couple guys who beat Douglas), but I don't ever think he beat's THAT night's Douglas. He never touches Holyfield or Lewis.

He also missed remarkable amount of the good heavyweights of his era. It is really weird that besides Holmes his best heavyweight scalp is...Razor Ruddock? A guy literally nobody would remember if it wasn't for fighting Tyson.

He managed to miss Bowe, Morrison, Tim Witherspoon, George Foreman 2.0, Michael Moorer, Ray Mercer, Oliver McCall. No other prominent heavyweight of the era missed so many contemporaries...many of those being extremely tough cookies, in terms of chin, power, or both.

There is literally nothing but the eye test, and that knockout of Holmes maybe, to suggest "all time great." And everyone passes the eye test until they don't.

SO...all that being said...I think he was so overrated for so long that he's underrated in some circles. He's not a "bad" fighter. He's a top 15 heavyweights, bordering on top 10, he thrashed a HELL OF A LOT of B- fighters in an era where activity levels were already starting to go down. He had some very excellent skills and tools that simply must be respected, he wasn't just a lucky punch guy. He was a VERY skilled fighter who's deficiencies lay in strategy, fortitude, discipline, back up plans, etc. And his star power was second to none.

In his prime Holmes would have destroyed Tyson. The fight would have been a mirror image of Douglas. The jab keeps him at bay and when Tyson ties to come in under it.....the uppercut causes the KO.

 

[Nole Lou]

I'll even add Tua - that fight I would have LOVED to see - and Ibeabuchi to your list as well.

Yeah, I thought about adding Tua and Ike, even though the window they crossed was narrow.

Like you'd think of so many wins he had, at least one of those guys would have gone on to a solid career, but really nope. Again, other than Holmes.

When people talk about Tyson's downfall after splitting with the Cus D'Amato team, they ignore a very important strength of D'Amato, which was matchmaking. All you have to do is read up on D'Amato and Floyd Patterson, an extremely flawed fighter that D'Amato masterfully guided around all threats until HE became the youngest heavyweight champs. Until he couldn't keep Patterson from Liston.

Even at the time D'Amato was criticized for protecting Patterson, and make no mistake, he also knew exactly what types of opponents were all wrong for Tyson. He isn't exactly an unbiased source, but Teddy Atlas has acknowledged as much.

And I'm not a Tyson hater...but this greatest of all time thing is just too much.

 

[Nole Lou]

In his prime Holmes would have destroyed Tyson. The fight would have been a mirror image of Douglas. The jab keeps him at bay and when Tyson ties to come in under it.....the uppercut causes the KO.

I 100% agree. Mainly because Holmes in his prime gets up (see Shavers, Witherspoon, etc) and the Holmes that lost to Tyson was a businessman first.

That said, Holmes fought on a long time after that, and nobody came close to doing that to any version of Holmes. It's a very good win for Tyson.

 

[seminole97]

 

[Tom Paris]

Yeah, I thought about adding Tua and Ike, even though the window they crossed was narrow.

Like you'd think of so many wins he had, at least one of those guys would have gone on to a solid career, but really nope. Again, other than Holmes.

When people talk about Tyson's downfall after splitting with the Cus D'Amato team, they ignore a very important strength of D'Amato, which was matchmaking. All you have to do is read up on D'Amato and Floyd Patterson, an extremely flawed fighter that D'Amato masterfully guided around all threats until HE became the youngest heavyweight champs. Until he couldn't keep Patterson from Liston.

Even at the time D'Amato was criticized for protecting Patterson, and make no mistake, he also knew exactly what types of opponents were all wrong for Tyson. He isn't exactly an unbiased source, but Teddy Atlas has acknowledged as much.

And I'm not a Tyson hater...but this greatest of all time thing is just too much.

Thanks for pointing this all out!

 

[Tom Paris]

I 100% agree. Mainly because Holmes in his prime gets up (see Shavers, Witherspoon, etc) and the Holmes that lost to Tyson was a businessman first.

That said, Holmes fought on a long time after that, and nobody came close to doing that to any version of Holmes. It's a very good win for Tyson.

The Shavers knockdown of Holmes might be the hardest punch I have ever seen a guy recover from and win a fight.

 

[Yentle]

If it is not fixed and that is a big "if", there is no way Tyson at 58 can win.

 

[jasonrann]

My wager is in. Knockdown in rounds 1-4 at -175.

 

[stickman80]

I do think that there is a narrow path to victory for Tyson through an early body shot KO. I don't know if he can get close enough. Even a journeyman heavyweight of Paul's size could easily keep this version of Tyson at bay, but Paul is sub journeyman heavyweight. That said, Tyson never really knocked guys out or hurt guys badly with body shots in his prime, the body work was mostly to open up the head. But to be fair, that's most heavyweights really.

Agreed. Little chance Tyson KOs him with a body shot....that is just the outcome I would like.

Seeing Paul wilt from a body shot would be a complete humiliation.

 

[Tenacious E]