University of Iowa at Des Moines

[Lone Clone]

OriginallyW posted by Kinnick4Ever:

ISU would (and will, behind the scenes) oppose the merger because it means two things: A) ISU's largely successful campaign to win over the hearts and minds of the power brokers in Des Moines--a singularly damaging development to the UI--would be undercut by an enhanced UI footprint in Des Moines. B) In an ironic twist, this merger would enable the UI to more successfully address the very thing the Regents claim they're trying to achieve: increased in-state enrollment (never mind the dwindling number of in-state students available for enrollment, the neglect it displays towards the very different academic roles the Regents institutions play, the unnecessary competition it has created among the Regents institutions, or the harm it will do to the state's smaller colleges). ISU is banking on this formula to capture top dog status in the state, and UNI needs it to help overcome its failed business model. The merger certainly will not help ISU achieve its great ambition. Could be they'll all rue the day this funding formula was dreamed up, unless the Legislature cuts it off at the knees before it ever takes effect.

With all due respect, that sounds wacko and paranoid to me. Much like the earlier rants and raves about plans for equitable funding of the Regents institutinos. Even if this ISU conspiracy exists, , I can't see how this would affect it one way or another.

One question that comes to my mind involves money. The U of I is strapped and demanding ever more money, so it's going to take a flyer and assume an additional large expense?

Another question is how this fits into the image the U of I is trying to project of its academic status. We are talking about students who the U of I largely claims it wouldn't admit.

I think a whole lot more needs to be known about why this is being considered and what the long-term plans are.

 

[FG86]

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by FG86:

I don't think there is going to be a huge increase in enrollment either. But it costs $44,000 a year to go to Drake so it is indeed a factor.

Sure, but lessening that to $11,000 a year would not lead it to be able to handle 500% capacity.

I would, in theory only, wonder what kids would alter in their consideration if Iowa and Drake were priced the same. I still believe that the numbers would stay, relatively proportional to now.

It is pretty obvious that there are a lot of students out there ignoring the costs and accepting loan money....and plenty of institutions doling it out. If kids were interested in Drake, they would go. They still go to the regent schools.

No, Drake wasn't built to have a capacity of 30,000 students. They are an expensive private school. I would think more kids in the DM area would attend Drake if it was affordable. Some students can afford schools like Drake. Would be very difficult to get loans to cover Drake costs. Scholarships maybe, but not loans. I am sure there are kids who would like to attend Drake but simply cannot afford it. You can attend state schools for four years for the cost of one year of Drake.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Originally posted by FG86:

No, Drake wasn't built to have a capacity of 30,000 students.

This, largely, is my point. Infrastructure.

They are an expensive private school. I would think more kids in the DM area would attend Drake if it was affordable. Some students can afford schools like Drake. Would be very difficult to get loans to cover Drake costs. Scholarships maybe, but not loans.

I'm not sure why you think that. Loans are extremely obtainable these days. Not saying kids do or should want loans that large, but they can get them without trouble.

I am sure there are kids who would like to attend Drake but simply cannot afford it. You can attend state schools for four years for the cost of one year of Drake.

Of course there "are kids" who might want that, but I think, even with money being equal, with all else the same, Iowa still pulls in many, many more students.

 

[FG86]

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by FG86:

No, Drake wasn't built to have a capacity of 30,000 students.

This, largely, is my point. Infrastructure.

They are an expensive private school. I would think more kids in the DM area would attend Drake if it was affordable. Some students can afford schools like Drake. Would be very difficult to get loans to cover Drake costs. Scholarships maybe, but not loans.

I'm not sure why you think that. Loans are extremely obtainable these days. Not saying kids do or should want loans that large, but they can get them without trouble.

I am sure there are kids who would like to attend Drake but simply cannot afford it. You can attend state schools for four years for the cost of one year of Drake.

Of course there "are kids" who might want that, but I think, even with money being equal, with all else the same, Iowa still pulls in many, many more students.

Public universities will always pull in more kids than private schools.

As for loans, the Stafford loans have a limit. Sure you can get private loans, but you better be majoring in something that is going to pay high dollar salary.

Anyway, I am not sure what all the excitement is. UI acquired some assets to have a campus in DM. Woo. I don't think it is going to be the answer to the BOR magic formula.

 

[Hawk12345]

Okay, let me clarify my thoughts.

I probably should have left out the idea that Iowa City might be a loser in this situation. That by far, is the most uncertain of my conclusions. If Iowa City, does "lose" on account of this deal, I didn't mean that UI-Iowa City would fold up shop and move to Des Moines. What I meant, was that some of the future growth of the UI would now happen in Des Moines. That doesn't mean UI-Iowa City will stop growing. I just meant that the growth would be at a slower pace if there is a UI-Des Moines. On the whole, 25 years from now the combined UI-Iowa City and UI-Des Moines will be much stronger, healthier, and financially sound than UI-Iowa City is today. This will prove to be a great thing for both the UI and the city of Des Moines (and 25 years from now I intend to come back to this board and gloat about that fact that I was right, LOL).

Right now, UI's presence in Des Moines is to share one building where a few graduate classes are held. My guess is that 95% of the population of Des Moines would have no idea where UI classes are held in Des Moines. By taking over AIB, UI will have an actual, visible footprint in the city, with room to grow (as 2 story buildings on the AIB campus are replaced over time with 6 story buildings). The AIB campus certainly couldn't hold 10,000 students in the near future, but again it wouldn't shock me to see UI-Des Moines have 10,000 students 25 years from now.

Perhaps even more than ISU, probably the biggest financial loser will be DMACC. There are well over 10,000 kids that go to DMACC. If you could go to UI-Des Moines (near the downtown of Iowa's most vibrant city) or DMACC (whose main campus is in the middle of nowhere in Ankeny), at nearly the same cost, for your first two years of college, what sounds best to you? If you were a working professional in Des Moines and wanted to get a graduate degree, do you want to spend a gazillion dollars going to Drake, drive a four-hour round trip to Des Moines a couple times a week, or go to UI-Des Moines? I have no doubt, should the leaders of the UI wish this to happen, that UI-Des Moines could easily have 10,000 students 25 years from now.

I really think this will prove to be a brilliant move, and I am kind of surprised that there hasn't been more enthusiasm for it yet.

(P.S. I would like to see the merger happen. However, one way I could see this play out is that ISU and UNI cry uncle and agree to scrap the new appropriations proposal that penalizes the University of Iowa, if Iowa agrees not to merge with AIB.)

 

[FG86]

Originally posted by Hawk12345:
Okay, let me clarify my thoughts.

I probably should have left out the idea that Iowa City might be a loser in this situation. That by far, is the most uncertain of my conclusions. If Iowa City, does "lose" on account of this deal, I didn't mean that UI-Iowa City would fold up shop and move to Des Moines. What I meant, was that some of the future growth of the UI would now happen in Des Moines. That doesn't mean UI-Iowa City will stop growing. I just meant that the growth would be at a slower pace if there is a UI-Des Moines. On the whole, 25 years from now the combined UI-Iowa City and UI-Des Moines will be much stronger, healthier, and financially sound than UI-Iowa City is today. This will prove to be a great thing for both the UI and the city of Des Moines (and 25 years from now I intend to come back to this board and gloat about that fact that I was right, LOL).

Right now, UI's presence in Des Moines is to share one building where a few graduate classes are held. My guess is that 95% of the population of Des Moines would have no idea where UI classes are held in Des Moines. By taking over AIB, UI will have an actual, visible footprint in the city, with room to grow (as 2 story buildings on the AIB campus are replaced over time with 6 story buildings). The AIB campus certainly couldn't hold 10,000 students in the near future, but again it wouldn't shock me to see UI-Des Moines have 10,000 students 25 years from now.

Perhaps even more than ISU, probably the biggest financial loser will be DMACC. There are well over 10,000 kids that go to DMACC. If you could go to UI-Des Moines (near the downtown of Iowa's most vibrant city) or DMACC (whose main campus is in the middle of nowhere in Ankeny), at nearly the same cost, for your first two years of college, what sounds best to you? If you were a working professional in Des Moines and wanted to get a graduate degree, do you want to spend a gazillion dollars going to Drake, drive a four-hour round trip to Des Moines a couple times a week, or go to UI-Des Moines? I have no doubt, should the leaders of the UI wish this to happen, that UI-Des Moines could easily have 10,000 students 25 years from now.

I really think this will prove to be a brilliant move, and I am kind of surprised that there hasn't been more enthusiasm for it yet.

(P.S. I would like to see the merger happen. However, one way I could see this play out is that ISU and UNI cry uncle and agree to scrap the new appropriations proposal that penalizes the University of Iowa, if Iowa agrees not to merge with AIB.)

At this time, merging with AIB, the change in enrollment of Iowa students will be a drop in the bucket and have little effect. UI needs to overhaul its marketing and admissions department if they want to get the $$.



This post was edited on 1/28 9:57 PM by FG86

 

[sultanofsuede]

Originally posted by Recruiting Violation:

Originally posted by Hawk12345:

Loser: Iowa City. It is too early to tell how this may all end up. But, it would not shock me in the least to see UI-Iowa City and UI-Des Moines, have similar sized student bodies 30 or 40 years from now. Des Moines is kind of a happening place right now where young people want to live. And, if the Des Moines campus has good, aggressive leadership, the Des Moines campus could soon be growing by leaps and bounds.

I don't buy this. Just because Des Moines is trying to upgrade its image (with some success) doesn't mean that UI-DM will somehow equal or bypass UI-IC. My best comparison (without much knowledge to back it up, admittedly) is UNL and UNO. Omaha obviously has a lot more happening, but there's no chance UNO is ever going to eclipse UNL.

The U of I has billions(?) of dollars invested in infrastructure and programs in Iowa City. Just considering the space where AIB is located now, there's no logistical possibility of expanding much. They'd have to move elsewhere (which certainly is possible), and it would take multiple decades (and, admittedly, you did say 30-40 years) to ever come close to what Iowa City could offer. But why invest that much when you already have world-class facilities in Iowa City?

As long as you have a flagship school in Iowa City with the history, the hospital, the athletic facilities, and the central position the University holds in that community, any Des Moines campus is going to be less important.

i suppose its possible that 30-40 years from now, that could put a dent in the iowa city enrollment, but i guess i'll just hope against it. one other comparison, similar to UNL and UNO is the University of Illinois & UIC. UIC had a pretty large enrollment, but its a different kind of student (admission standards, costs, etc..).

if i'm reading this right, it would seem there could be even more eventual UI's in the state. similar to wisconsin or minnesota (UW-Madison, UW-Whitewater, UW-Milwaukee, etc....). does it look like iowa is going in that direction?

 

[Hawk12345]

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by FG86:

I don't think there is going to be a huge increase in enrollment either. But it costs $44,000 a year to go to Drake so it is indeed a factor.

Sure, but lessening that to $11,000 a year would not lead it to be able to handle 500% capacity.

I would, in theory only, wonder what kids would alter in their consideration if Iowa and Drake were priced the same. I still believe that the numbers would stay, relatively proportional to now.

It is pretty obvious that there are a lot of students out there ignoring the costs and accepting loan money....and plenty of institutions doling it out. If kids were interested in Drake, they would go. They still go to the regent schools.

I grew up in Des Moines, my kids have grown up in Des Moines, in my high school class of 400, and my kids' classes of 700, I can think of maybe 3 kids that went to Drake. Not a lot of central Iowa kids go to Drake. Not a lot of Iowa kids can afford it. Now in huge numbers these kids go to ISU (by probably a 5-1 ratio over the number of central Iowa kids going to Iowa).

I would bet that there are more kids at Drake from Illinois, than are from Iowa. There are thousands of well-off Chicago area kids that can't get into Northwestern or the University of Illinois, or even the University of Iowa. A lot of those kids go to Drake. I am not sure that the UI-Des Moines is going to hurt Drake all that much. Maybe in regard to graduate programs, but I don't think this will hurt undergrad enrollment at Drake. The niche that UI-Des Moines seeks to fill, is not the same niche that Drake fills. Not even close.

 

[Hawk12345]

At this time, merging with AIB, the change in enrollment of Iowa students will be a drop in the bucket and have little effect. UI needs to overhaul its marketing and admissions department if they want to get the $$.



This post was edited on 1/28 9:57 PM by FG86

This isn't all about students. This also about building critical political and business support for the University of Iowa. You folks that don't live in the Des Moines area may not see it, but ISU is pretty far along in a 20-year campaign to basically become Des Moines' university, which includes getting the financial support of the Des Moines business community, and the political support that comes with it. This is far bigger than just adding 1,000 kids. This is about the University of Iowa finally taking the gloves off and beginning to fight back.

 

[Lone Clone]

I'm reading a lot of delusion and paranoia from a couple of posters, while the rest of us are more or less guessing because nobody knows a lot of specifics yet. A couple of observations:

* This could, indeed, be a move toward creating a system similar to that of other states, but Branstad/Pomerantz tried that a few years ago and it didn't fly. The idea of UI-Ames and UI-Cedar Falls and UI-Des Moines just didn't catch on....and wouldn't do so today, either.

* I don't see a "down" side for ISU or UNI, and I'm not seeing any other ISU folks who do, either. Again, it's very early in the game and nobody knows the details yet. I'm seeing some criticism and skepticism among ISU folks, but it involves whether UI is -- once again -- sticking a finger in the eye of the Regents, not whether this hurts ISU.

* The funding allocation is going to change, period. Whether the plan approved by the Regents is the plan that will be used, I don't know, but nobody outside a few hard-core UI supporters disputes that the existing system got out of whack and has to be altered. The days of UI getting what it wants and the other two schools fighting over what's left over are long gone.

 

[hawkedoff]

Lc

Changing the formula doesn't mean ui won't get what it wants. A few regents have been dealing under the table. The idea that Iowa wasn't going to have a response is really interesting

I spoke with a former regent last evening. He stated that the current bor is full if themselves and need to stop trying to micromanage everything.

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by hawkedoff:
Lc

Changing the formula doesn't mean ui won't get what it wants. A few regents have been dealing under the table. The idea that Iowa wasn't going to have a response is really interesting

I spoke with a former regent last evening. He stated that the current bor is full if themselves and need to stop trying to micromanage everythingI
================================

I doubt very much that any Regents are dealing under the table.

I doubt very much if anybody thought UI would have no response to the funding change.

I doubt very much that any rational person would think it is "micromanaging" for a Regent to want to know when one of the universities annexes another campus 100 miles away.

I do not doubt at all that some members of the BOR are full of themselves.

Having said that, I have been pretty good friends with three former regents before, during and after their time on the board. All three were Democrats, if that matters, and all three were Hawkeye season ticket holders. All three were honest, hard-working people who sacrificed considerably to serve on the board, and were motivated solely by trying to make the system as good as it possibly could be. I see no reason to believe most Regents are not like those three.....but I certainly agree there are exceptions, and I would start with the late Marvin Pomerantz.

 

[Birky]

I think his point of "micromanaging" is a lot more general than specific. He said they micromanage "everything." I am sure that is probably pretty close to being true. When you are in a position like that, it isn't because you are going to make a million dollars doing it, it is because you are given power. I would have to believe that most (not all) people who take a position like that enjoy having power, probably want to micromanage "everything."

Agree or disagree that what Iowa is doing is a good thing for the state, but I would guess that many of the regents don't care if it is good or not. They care that their authority(maybe authority isn't the correct word?) has been circumvented.

So, if it is indeed a good thing, but they try to stop it in spite the positivity it may have, we have a "regent problem." Unfortunately, I can't say any of this is true because don't know for sure what any of the regents are thinking, but it is likely not all that far off.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[hexumhawk]

I think the change in funding model might of big a parting shot at Sally. There was a reason that ISU started accepting anyone under the sun as long as they were from Iowa.

This is a huge step for the UI to take over the state. I think you might see some satellites in other areas after this one gets going full speed.

 

[FG86]

Originally posted by Hawk12345:

At this time, merging with AIB, the change in enrollment of Iowa students will be a drop in the bucket and have little effect. UI needs to overhaul its marketing and admissions department if they want to get the $$.



This post was edited on 1/28 9:57 PM by FG86

This isn't all about students. This also about building critical political and business support for the University of Iowa. You folks that don't live in the Des Moines area may not see it, but ISU is pretty far along in a 20-year campaign to basically become Des Moines' university, which includes getting the financial support of the Des Moines business community, and the political support that comes with it. This is far bigger than just adding 1,000 kids. This is about the University of Iowa finally taking the gloves off and beginning to fight back.

UI already has a presence in DM. I know someone made a comment about how it is just a small space in a building but they have lunch and learns in DM and other activities. I just don't see this having the big impact that some are saying it will

 

[FG86]

Originally posted by hexumhawk:

I think the change in funding model might of big a parting shot at Sally. There was a reason that ISU started accepting anyone under the sun as long as they were from Iowa.

This is a huge step for the UI to take over the state. I think you might see some satellites in other areas after this one gets going full speed.

That very BOR that is micromanaging and taking parting shots also has a RAI to follow in admitting students. Do you have any proof that ISU is accepting anyone under the sun?

 

[Birky]

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by hexumhawk:



I think the change in funding model might of big a parting shot at Sally. There was a reason that ISU started accepting anyone under the sun as long as they were from Iowa.



This is a huge step for the UI to take over the state. I think you might see some satellites in other areas after this one gets going full speed.

That very BOR that is micromanaging and taking parting shots also has a RAI to follow in admitting students. Do you have any proof that ISU is accepting anyone under the sun?

Actually there is proof. Anyone under the sun is an exaggeration, but ISU makes exceptions for students who do not meet RAI requirements at a higher rate than Iowa. Somebody can look up the numbers, but he didn't just make that up. There is some truth to it.

It is up to the individual to decide what ISU's motive is for doing so. They really could just be trying to help out some kids that otherwise couldn't get in?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by Birky:

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by hexumhawk:



I think the change in funding model might of big a parting shot at Sally. There was a reason that ISU started accepting anyone under the sun as long as they were from Iowa.



This is a huge step for the UI to take over the state. I think you might see some satellites in other areas after this one gets going full speed.

That very BOR that is micromanaging and taking parting shots also has a RAI to follow in admitting students. Do you have any proof that ISU is accepting anyone under the sun?

Actually there is proof. Anyone under the sun is an exaggeration, but ISU makes exceptions for students who do not meet RAI requirements at a higher rate than Iowa. Somebody can look up the numbers, but he didn't just make that up. There is some truth to it.

It is up to the individual to decide what ISU's motive is for doing so. They really could just be trying to help out some kids that otherwise couldn't get in?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Good Lord. Yes, ALL THREE universities admit a small percentage of applicants who fall short of the RAI. Whether ISU does so at a higher rate than UI cannot be determined. A report several months ago said this was the case -- although the percentage for ISU was decreasing and that of UI was increasing -- but that report was later found to be based on bad data from the UI and the Regents asked the folks at Iowa City for a do-over.

The problem is that a major part of calculating the RAI is the applicants standing in his/her high school graduating class, but an increasing number of Iowa high schools no longer rank their classes. I think it's about half now. In order to get a number to plug into the RAI formula, UNI and ISU were using test scores and some other factors to come up with a projection of where the student would be ranked in his/her class if it were ranked, then using that number to figure the RAI. The UI, in contrast, was simply ignoring these students. In other words, if you applied to UI and your high school didn't rank your class, the UI didn't calculate an RAI for you. As a result, the UI's figures for admissions that were below RAI standards didn't count any admissions from those schools, one way or the other.

The Regents told UI to come up with a way to use the RAI.......the Regents did not tell UI to use the same process UNI and ISU use (God alone knows why not) but it did tell UI to do something.

 

[FG86]

Originally posted by Birky:

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by hexumhawk:



I think the change in funding model might of big a parting shot at Sally. There was a reason that ISU started accepting anyone under the sun as long as they were from Iowa.



This is a huge step for the UI to take over the state. I think you might see some satellites in other areas after this one gets going full speed.

That very BOR that is micromanaging and taking parting shots also has a RAI to follow in admitting students. Do you have any proof that ISU is accepting anyone under the sun?

Actually there is proof. Anyone under the sun is an exaggeration, but ISU makes exceptions for students who do not meet RAI requirements at a higher rate than Iowa. Somebody can look up the numbers, but he didn't just make that up. There is some truth to it.

It is up to the individual to decide what ISU's motive is for doing so. They really could just be trying to help out some kids that otherwise couldn't get in?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Well, where would the proof be? Iowa also makes exceptions. These nosy, controlling BOR also have a policy on exceptions BTW. Iowa also takes students who can't get into the University of Illinois.

 

[FG86]

Originally posted by Birky:

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by hexumhawk:



I think the change in funding model might of big a parting shot at Sally. There was a reason that ISU started accepting anyone under the sun as long as they were from Iowa.



This is a huge step for the UI to take over the state. I think you might see some satellites in other areas after this one gets going full speed.

That very BOR that is micromanaging and taking parting shots also has a RAI to follow in admitting students. Do you have any proof that ISU is accepting anyone under the sun?

Actually there is proof. Anyone under the sun is an exaggeration, but ISU makes exceptions for students who do not meet RAI requirements at a higher rate than Iowa. Somebody can look up the numbers, but he didn't just make that up. There is some truth to it.

It is up to the individual to decide what ISU's motive is for doing so. They really could just be trying to help out some kids that otherwise couldn't get in?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Apparently, the ISU admissions staff makes good choices on their exceptions. ISU retains 87% of its freshmen, while Iowa who according to you is much more selective retains 86%.

 

[hexumhawk]

The biggest difference in the BOR is that ISU knew the funding model was likely going to be adapted and chose to change their marketing strategy for new students to focus on in-state kids. UI didn't because they didn't think they would change the funding model. Obviously now they have changed to a more in-state focus with the new regulations.

 

[MTHawkeyes43]

Originally posted by TankHawk:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:
Yup.

Iowa State has a campus in Rome.

Now Iowa has one in Des Moines.

I wonder if the Rome ISU football team won more than 2 games?

No, but it is almost guaranteed they would beat the Hawkeyes if they did.

 

[5Fan5]

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by Birky:

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by hexumhawk:



I think the change in funding model might of big a parting shot at Sally. There was a reason that ISU started accepting anyone under the sun as long as they were from Iowa.



This is a huge step for the UI to take over the state. I think you might see some satellites in other areas after this one gets going full speed.

That very BOR that is micromanaging and taking parting shots also has a RAI to follow in admitting students. Do you have any proof that ISU is accepting anyone under the sun?

Actually there is proof. Anyone under the sun is an exaggeration, but ISU makes exceptions for students who do not meet RAI requirements at a higher rate than Iowa. Somebody can look up the numbers, but he didn't just make that up. There is some truth to it.

It is up to the individual to decide what ISU's motive is for doing so. They really could just be trying to help out some kids that otherwise couldn't get in?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Apparently, the ISU admissions staff makes good choices on their exceptions. ISU retains 87% of its freshmen, while Iowa who according to you is much more selective retains 86%.

Wasn't it you, Pretender, claiming that the APR was skewed because schools such as isu incur more transferring of student-athletes as opposed to Iowa and UNI? Now, you wish to speak from the opposite side of your mouth because the discussion has taken a slightly different direction?

How long is your data applicable? Is this a one-year retention rate, several years? In terms of real numbers (actual students), exactly how many students are you talking about in your obsessive effort to point out a 1% difference?

No, you don't have an incessant hatred for anything Iowa (versus isu... btw, weren't you questioning why anyone would ever bring isu into a discussion on HR?), Pretender>. [/SARCASM] It is evident to anyone caring to read your constant drivel here.

 

[Birky]

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by Birky:

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by hexumhawk:







I think the change in funding model might of big a parting shot at Sally. There was a reason that ISU started accepting anyone under the sun as long as they were from Iowa.







This is a huge step for the UI to take over the state. I think you might see some satellites in other areas after this one gets going full speed.

That very BOR that is micromanaging and taking parting shots also has a RAI to follow in admitting students. Do you have any proof that ISU is accepting anyone under the sun?

Actually there is proof. Anyone under the sun is an exaggeration, but ISU makes exceptions for students who do not meet RAI requirements at a higher rate than Iowa. Somebody can look up the numbers, but he didn't just make that up. There is some truth to it.



It is up to the individual to decide what ISU's motive is for doing so. They really could just be trying to help out some kids that otherwise couldn't get in?

Posted from Rivals Mobile

Apparently, the ISU admissions staff makes good choices on their exceptions. ISU retains 87% of its freshmen, while Iowa who according to you is much more selective retains 86%.

I didn't say it was wrong, for all I know it is the right thing to do. Iowa accepts students at a lower rate than ISU. It doesn't increase the validity of what I said, and the retention of said students doesn't change anything either. I'm not sure why the retention has anything to do with this discussion? There are a lot of reasons for retention. You could argue that the fact that the retention rates are similar, Iowa does a better job of "picking" their students. Isn't it a known fact that ISU has a higher percentage of in state students. What is the retention rate of in state students to out of state students? I don't know, but it wouldn't be crazy to think that out of state students are more likely to transfer.

Obviously Iowa is taking over the earth. AIB today, the universe tomorrow. It's inevitable. Submit now, or face destruction tomorrow...no, I'm not serious.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[JRHawk2003]

Iowa's University system is horrible compared to WI and MN and NE. We should have one big state university with one or two satellites. We are not that big. There is no need for 3 presidents and separate administrations. Its dumb, but we are stuck with it now.

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by Birky:

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by Birky:

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by hexumhawk:







I think the change in funding model might of big a parting shot at Sally. There was a reason that ISU started accepting anyone under the sun as long as they were from Iowa.







This is a huge step for the UI to take over the state. I think you might see some satellites in other areas after this one gets going full speed.

That very BOR that is micromanaging and taking parting shots also has a RAI to follow in admitting students. Do you have any proof that ISU is accepting anyone under the sun?

Actually there is proof. Anyone under the sun is an exaggeration, but ISU makes exceptions for students who do not meet RAI requirements at a higher rate than Iowa. Somebody can look up the numbers, but he didn't just make that up. There is some truth to it.



It is up to the individual to decide what ISU's motive is for doing so. They really could just be trying to help out some kids that otherwise couldn't get in?

Posted from Rivals Mobile

Apparently, the ISU admissions staff makes good choices on their exceptions. ISU retains 87% of its freshmen, while Iowa who according to you is much more selective retains 86%.

I didn't say it was wrong, for all I know it is the right thing to do. Iowa accepts students at a lower rate than ISU. It doesn't increase the validity of what I said, and the retention of said students doesn't change anything either. I'm not sure why the retention has anything to do with this discussion? There are a lot of reasons for retention. You could argue that the fact that the retention rates are similar, Iowa does a better job of "picking" their students. Isn't it a known fact that ISU has a higher percentage of in state students. What is the retention rate of in state students to out of state students? I don't know, but it wouldn't be crazy to think that out of state students are more likely to transfer.

Obviously Iowa is taking over the earth. AIB today, the universe tomorrow. It's inevitable. Submit now, or face destruction tomorrow...no, I'm not serious.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

As I said in a slightly different context, the obvious reason for a higher retention rate is that the academics aren't as challenging. Whether it's true or not is questionable, but it's obvious.

Zinging aside.....I think I recall reading that the retention rate at ISU for the students who were below the Regents standard wasn't significantly different that for those above it. Which also isn't too surprising. As you point out, there are any number of factors that affect retention, several of which have nothing whatever to do with academics.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Originally posted by Hawk12345:
Now in huge numbers these kids go to ISU (by probably a 5-1 ratio over the number of central Iowa kids going to Iowa).

I didn't respond to this earlier, but there is no way this nonsense is true.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by Hawk12345:
Now in huge numbers these kids go to ISU (by probably a 5-1 ratio over the number of central Iowa kids going to Iowa).

I didn't respond to this earlier, but there is no way this nonsense is true.

Now to dive deeper:

According to this, UI had 17,048 enrolled Iowans in 2014. It is then further sorted by counties. So, let's define "central Iowa" as what? Polk, Dallas, Warren? (Or do you want to include Story?)

Polk: 2,172.
Dallas: 409
Warren: 174

Using just those three counties, there are 2,755.....and your claim is that "probably" 11,000 "Central Iowa" students go to Iowa State?

What a crock of sht. Do you have ISU's numbers? All I could find with relatively little search was that they have ~17,978 Iowans enrolled....so the central Iowa claim would basically mean that ~61% come directly from there.

This whole "Des Moines belongs to ISU" crap is completely overblown. There are, absolutely, more Iowa "fans" in the metro than ISU. But people largely expect that, so seeing an ISU license plate/flag/whatever stands out more. And in the last decade ISU fans have become very proud (and loud). Credit Pollard for that. That does not mean they have "won" DM.

Anybody know what the Polk County Cy-Club tally is? I-Club?

Feel free to disprove this 12345.

 

[Hawk12345]

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by Hawk12345:
Now in huge numbers these kids go to ISU (by probably a 5-1 ratio over the number of central Iowa kids going to Iowa).

I didn't respond to this earlier, but there is no way this nonsense is true.

Now to dive deeper:

According to this, UI had 17,048 enrolled Iowans in 2014. It is then further sorted by counties. So, let's define "central Iowa" as what? Polk, Dallas, Warren? (Or do you want to include Story?)

Polk: 2,172.
Dallas: 409
Warren: 174

Using just those three counties, there are 2,755.....and your claim is that "probably" 11,000 "Central Iowa" students go to Iowa State?

What a crock of sht. Do you have ISU's numbers? All I could find with relatively little search was that they have ~17,978 Iowans enrolled....so the central Iowa claim would basically mean that ~61% come directly from there.

This whole "Des Moines belongs to ISU" crap is completely overblown. There are, absolutely, more Iowa "fans" in the metro than ISU. But people largely expect that, so seeing an ISU license plate/flag/whatever stands out more. And in the last decade ISU fans have become very proud (and loud). Credit Pollard for that. That does not mean they have "won" DM.

Anybody know what the Polk County Cy-Club tally is? I-Club?

Feel free to disprove this 12345.

Your numbers include grad students. Iowa's grad program is far bigger than ISU's. What I am talking about are undergraduate students. Twenty-five years ago kids from central Iowa went to Iowa and ISU in approximately equal numbers (undergrad kids, I mean). Today that is not the case. It may not be 5-1, but today there are far more central Iowa kids going to ISU than are going to Iowa. Central Iowa has been part of ISU's marketing efforts, while being largely overlooked (taken for granted?) by Iowa. The folks in Iowa City have finally figured this out. Merging with AIB is a big shortcut on their way towards solving the problem.

Okay, I added up UI undergrad students from Polk County, and I get 1,635. I can't find the comparable number from ISU, but I would guess its at least 2,500.

 

[Hawk12345]

Okay, Iowa Hawk, here you go.

2014 Iowa Students from Polk County: 2,172

2013 ISU Students from Polk County: 4,166

2014 Iowa Undergrads from Polk County: 1,635 (I believe this is correct, but it is a little hard to be certain)

2013 ISU Undergrads from Polk County: 3,834 (I believe this is correct, but it is a little hard to be certain)

My point is, and continues to be, that 25 years ago the numbers between the two schools were equal.

(I used Iowa Hawk's link and http://alliance.isualum.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Polk-County.pdf)

 

[FG86]

Originally posted by 5Fan5:

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by Birky:

Originally posted by FG86:

Originally posted by hexumhawk:



I think the change in funding model might of big a parting shot at Sally. There was a reason that ISU started accepting anyone under the sun as long as they were from Iowa.



This is a huge step for the UI to take over the state. I think you might see some satellites in other areas after this one gets going full speed.

That very BOR that is micromanaging and taking parting shots also has a RAI to follow in admitting students. Do you have any proof that ISU is accepting anyone under the sun?

Actually there is proof. Anyone under the sun is an exaggeration, but ISU makes exceptions for students who do not meet RAI requirements at a higher rate than Iowa. Somebody can look up the numbers, but he didn't just make that up. There is some truth to it.

It is up to the individual to decide what ISU's motive is for doing so. They really could just be trying to help out some kids that otherwise couldn't get in?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Apparently, the ISU admissions staff makes good choices on their exceptions. ISU retains 87% of its freshmen, while Iowa who according to you is much more selective retains 86%.

Wasn't it you, Pretender, claiming that the APR was skewed because schools such as isu incur more transferring of student-athletes as opposed to Iowa and UNI? Now, you wish to speak from the opposite side of your mouth because the discussion has taken a slightly different direction?

How long is your data applicable? Is this a one-year retention rate, several years? In terms of real numbers (actual students), exactly how many students are you talking about in your obsessive effort to point out a 1% difference?

No, you don't have an incessant hatred for anything Iowa (versus isu... btw, weren't you questioning why anyone would ever bring isu into a discussion on HR?), Pretender>. [/SARCASM] It is evident to anyone caring to read your constant drivel here.

5, apple, orange, they aren't the same thing. BTW, there is basically no difference in retention between the 2 schools, but if ISU is bringing in all these students who don't meet the RAI, it would stand to reason, their retention rate would be much lower because people are saying they admit anyone under the sun.

BTW, 5, I didn't bring ISU into the discussion. Others did. Here's a quarter.....

 

[FG86]

And now we find out AIB leaders have been misleading about the whole thing. Interesting.

 

[brownd7949hawks]

Is that a surprise? Nancy Williams is a joke. I'll have more after all the stuff gets released.

 

[FG86]

Originally posted by brownd7949hawks:
Is that a surprise? Nancy Williams is a joke. I'll have more after all the stuff gets released.

No surprise and no surprise Sally was involved in hiding it all either. Who is paying the debt? I can't see BOR allowing UI to pay it.

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:
There are, absolutely, more Iowa "fans" in the metro than ISU.

That is, absolutely, not what a scientific poll said.

Iowa Poll showed ISU fans outnumbered Iowa fans in Central Iowa by a significant margin.

 

[hawkedoff]

Some of you are truly laughable. I saw the debt reported earlier this week. It most certainly wasn't hidden from anyone. 1.4 m in debt is nothing for an acquisition like this for the university

The board minutes of a private college show uncertainty about their future is a more accurate description. As for a deliberate cover up by Sally? Once again laughable. The attacks will ramp up like this I suppose by those with an agenda to hurt the ui

Did anyone think the athletes at aib would keep playing? Really? Private board meeting has someone state they can apply elsewhere? Shocking.

 

[Birky]

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:


There are, absolutely, more Iowa "fans" in the metro than ISU.

That is, absolutely, not what a scientific poll said.

Iowa Poll showed ISU fans outnumbered Iowa fans in Central Iowa by a significant margin.

What on earth are you talking about? Is this that poll from the 70's that you like to reference? Please show us a recent poll that shows anything even close to what you claim.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by Birky:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:


There are, absolutely, more Iowa "fans" in the metro than ISU.

That is, absolutely, not what a scientific poll said.

Iowa Poll showed ISU fans outnumbered Iowa fans in Central Iowa by a significant margin.

What on earth are you talking about? Is this that poll from the 70's that you like to reference? Please show us a recent poll that shows anything even close to what you claim.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

I don't know if you consider December of 2001 recent. It's the most recent scientific survey that I know about. And it shows central Iowa trending toward ISU, with more support than in a poll 15 years earlier....which is consistent with what one would expect.

======================
The University of Iowa Hawkeyes win the statewide battle for fan support,
but the Iowa State Cyclones can claim more fans in central Iowa.

A new Iowa Poll shows 44 percent of Iowa adults root for the Hawkeyes when
teams from the state's two largest universities compete.

"I always watch them on TV. On game days I wear my black and gold and fly a
flag at the house," said Lori Butterbrodt, 38, a homemaker from Durant.

Twenty-six percent of Iowans cheer for the Cyclones, and nearly as many -24
percent -root for neither team. Six percent are unsure.

"I enjoy the rivalry," said Kenneth Murry, 50, of rural Slater, who has
season tickets for Iowa State basketball games.

Fans on both sides of the fence have been able to do some bragging this
fall. The Cyclones won on the football field and when the women's
basketball teams met, and the Hawkeyes dominated in men's basketball and
wrestling.

The Des Moines Register's poll shows strong regional differences in fan
support.

The Hawkeyes are the clear favorite in eastern Iowa. Nearly 60 percent of
the residents from that part of the state cheer for the team in black and
gold, and fewer than 20 percent root for the cardinal and gold of Iowa
State.

The Cyclones hold the upper hand in the central part of the state, with 49
percent of the residents rooting for Iowa State and 29 percent favoring
Iowa.

Northwest Iowa is virtually a toss-up. The poll shows 34 percent of the
residents cheer for the Hawkeyes, 32 percent for the Cyclones and 25
percent for neither. The rest aren't sure.

Neither team stands out in fan support from southwest Iowa, which could
have something to do with the loud cheers of "Go big Red" heard from the
west.

Four in 10 residents from southwest Iowa root for neither the Hawkeyes nor
the Cyclones. Nearly 30 percent support Iowa, and 26 percent cheer for Iowa
State.

The scientific survey of 826 adults was taken Dec. 10 to 17. The poll has a
margin of error of 3.4 percentage points.

Fan support for Iowa State appears to have grown since a Des Moines
Register poll taken in October 1985.

In the older poll, which asked a slightly different question, Iowans named
their favorite college football team among Iowa, Iowa State, Northern Iowa
and Drake. Fifty percent chose the Hawkeyes, and 18 percent picked the
Cyclones. In central Iowa, there were three Hawkeye fans for every two
Cyclone fans.

 

[Birky]

Like theiowahawk said, "the metro area," go ahead and zoom in on Polk County. This was done sometime in the last year or so. Scientific? Maybe not, but certainly doesn't support any "trend" toward ISU in the metro. Like theiowahawk said, the metro.


Posted from Rivals Mobile

Story county likey Cyclones...and that's it.

 

[brownd7949hawks]

I think everyone knew athletics was likely to be dropped. But to flat out lie to the public, the coaches, and 300+ students, to their face. is pretty crappy. Especially after just recently adding new sports teams last year. I have no hidden agenda against the university of Iowa. I do however think Nancy Williams is a piece of garbage.

This post was edited on 1/30 8:11 AM by brownd7949hawks