Update: Noah Shannon CLEARED TO PRACTICE. 26 UI student-athletes investigated for online gambling, incl in FB, Men’s BB, Baseball, T&F & Wrestling

[GHawk]

What do you think about this possible defense?

In case the tweet info below gets cut off:

"The defense believes that the State used Geofence, or similar data collection methods, as well as phone pinging data to capture data on the Iowa and Iowa State campuses after which students and other athletes were eliminated as targets unless they belonged to specific male athletic teams, which if true, would be a violation of the Defendant's constitutional rights as the State is not allowed to use discretion when choosing who to apply the law to."

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That may be a good defense for the legal problems of some of the players, but doesn't get them off the hook for the NCAA rules violations.

I'm still not sympathetic to the players who bet. They knew it was against NCAA rules. Whether it happens everywhere (and it probably does) it still doesn't excuse them for knowingly breaking the rules.

 

[Franisdaman]

That may be a good defense for the legal problems of some of the players, but doesn't get them off the hook for the NCAA rules violations.

I'm still not sympathetic to the players who bet. They knew it was against NCAA rules. Whether it happens everywhere (and it probably does) it still doesn't excuse them for knowingly breaking the rules.

the NCAA lost the NIL issue 9-0 before the Supreme Court.

why wouldn't they lose this issue, too, if the whole "sting" was illegal from the start?

 

[Franisdaman]

You knew it was coming...ugh...

slowly but surely....

 

[Franisdaman]

Story from Chad Leistikow of the Register

 

[GHawk]

the NCAA lost the NIL issue 9-0 before the Supreme Court.

why wouldn't they lose this issue, too, if the whole "sting" was illegal from the start?

Not sure the two are close to being the same. But, remember the NCAA didn't run the so called sting. Also, I always take what attorneys say (both prosecutors and defense) with a big grain of salt.

I think we really have to seperate the legal issues from the NCAA issues.

But, of course we're getting into a big swamp talking about legal issues. I sure am surprised by a lot of legal decisions. Both, liberal and conservative decisions. And I sure don't want to start a political discussion here.

 

[Franisdaman]

Not sure the two are close to being the same. But, remember the NCAA didn't run the so called sting. Also, I always take what attorneys say (both prosecutors and defense) with a big grain of salt.

I think we really have to seperate the legal issues from the NCAA issues.

But, of course we're getting into a big swamp talking about legal issues. I sure am surprised by a lot of legal decisions. Both, liberal and conservative decisions. And I sure don't want to start a political discussion here.

yeah, i wish one of our resident lawyers would weigh in

 

[GHawk]

yeah, i wish one of our resident lawyers would weigh in

Ya, but I just said I don't necessarily believe lawyers.

 

[Franisdaman]

Ya, but I just said I don't necessarily believe lawyers.

well, hopefully lessons are learned and this does not happen again

imagine if the football or basketball program got gutted like the wrestling program appears to have been....

 

[pistachio1999]

And we still have men's track & field to go

Women are smarter aren’t they.

 

[pistachio1999]

Ya, but I just said I don't necessarily believe lawyers.

Same lawyer can argue all sides.

 

[iahawks10]

well, hopefully lessons are learned and this does not happen again

imagine if the football or basketball program got gutted like the wrestling program appears to have been....

That’s where I am at with this entire thing. It sucks, certainly, but it could have been way worse (assuming the worst is over). Hopefully it opens up the eyes of current and future athletes (and the university) of how easy something so little and easy to do can ruin an entire career.

 

[ItsAllBallBearingsNowadays]

That’s where I am at with this entire thing. It sucks, certainly, but it could have been way worse (assuming the worst is over). Hopefully it opens up the eyes of current and future athletes (and the university) of how easy something so little and easy to do can ruin an entire career.

Anyone have any idea if they retroactively find another player to be guilty of NCAA gambling infractions and Iowa plays said player during the season if the can strip those wins away? That seems completely ridiculous but I would not put that past the NCAA.

 

[Franisdaman]

Women are smarter aren’t they.

Are they or did the the DCI just leave them alone?


"The defense believes that the State used Geofence, or similar data collection methods, as well as phone pinging data to capture data on the Iowa and Iowa State campuses after which students and other athletes were eliminated as targets unless they belonged to specific male athletic teams, which if true, would be a violation of the Defendant's constitutional rights as the State is not allowed to use discretion when choosing who to apply the law to."

 

[Franisdaman]

That’s where I am at with this entire thing. It sucks, certainly, but it could have been way worse (assuming the worst is over). Hopefully it opens up the eyes of current and future athletes (and the university) of how easy something so little and easy to do can ruin an entire career.

You simply can't have a "they'll never catch me" attitude and hope for the best

Asst Wrestling Coach Terry Brands has to be sick about his son, Nelson; I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when that "what the hell were you thinking" talk happened

 

[BurgHawk87]

@BurgHawk87 I didn't think a duplicate gambling thread was needed so I added to this ongoing one.

You asked in the duplicate thread if there was something like 111 students including athletes involved. Go up 7 posts for the complete breakdown.

To be completely fair this thread is 19 pages and still going, I don't always feel like wading through that much to try and find a concrete answer. Nothing wrong with two threads about a subject.

 

[Franisdaman]

Anyone have any idea if they retroactively find another player to be guilty of NCAA gambling infractions and Iowa plays said player during the season if the can strip those wins away? That seems completely ridiculous but I would not put that past the NCAA.

there was an announcement that the integrity of games was not affected so I don't think wins could be stripped

 

[Franisdaman]

@TheGuy9 , today's announcement says nothing about what Noah's punishment might be.

It appears clear that he committed no crimes.

A reminder, however, of the possible NCAA punishments:

According to NCAA guidelines, which are in effect for violations reported on or after May 2, 2023:

* Hawkeye players' college eligibility would be in jeopardy if they bet on Iowa games (in any sport).

* Football players could lose half a season if they bet on any college football contests.

* For other wagering activity:

--- they would face a loss of 30% of the season if they wagered more than $800

---20% of the season if they wagered between $501 and $800

--10% of the season for $201 to $500

---and gambling education (no games missed) for $200 or less.

Kirk Ferentz: 'Not a large number' of Iowa football players in sports gambling investigation

Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz said that there are “not a large number” Iowa football players involved in the NCAA’s investigation into sports gambling.

www.hawkcentral.com

 

[BurgHawk87]

the NCAA lost the NIL issue 9-0 before the Supreme Court.

why wouldn't they lose this issue, too, if the whole "sting" was illegal from the start?

Even if this was brought to court it wouldn't be heard for quite some time and players affected wouldn't retroactively be awarded eligibility. The NCAA probably doesn't give two shits unless it hurts the upper level pocketbooks. I'm actually surprised they've managed to release all recommended punishment now, and not drag out each group until their respective season is underway or finished. That's more the speed I'm accustomed to from that organization.

 

[Iron Doc]

Where is Aurora when we need him?

 

[kceasthawk]

Women are smarter aren’t they.

Or just better at hiding things, hmmmm...

 

[ItsAllBallBearingsNowadays]

there was an announcement that the integrity of games was not affected so I don't think wins could be stripped

I mean, going forward. Say they find out after the “first wave” somehow?

 

[Franisdaman]

Or just better at hiding things, hmmmm...

it appears the investigation was on men and male sports only

 

[Franisdaman]

I mean, going forward. Say they find out after the “first wave” somehow?

I think anything is possible

do you (or anyone reading this) recall the NCAA vacating wins, championships, etc based over bets that were placed?

 

[Iron Doc]

I think anything is possible

do you (or anyone reading this) recall the NCAA vacating wins, championships, etc based over bets that were placed?

THIS is a good question!

 

[Franisdaman]

Where is Aurora when we need him?

i hope the Register (or Gazette, etc) interviews a lawyer to see what they think is likely to happen.

 

[Franisdaman]

Same lawyer can argue all sides.

and if any of the student athletes have hired one, they are not cheap.

 

[AuroraHawk]

Where is Aurora when we need him?

Ask the question, I’ll try to answer.

 

[pistachio1999]

Are they or did the the DCI just leave them alone?


"The defense believes that the State used Geofence, or similar data collection methods, as well as phone pinging data to capture data on the Iowa and Iowa State campuses after which students and other athletes were eliminated as targets unless they belonged to specific male athletic teams, which if true, would be a violation of the Defendant's constitutional rights as the State is not allowed to use discretion when choosing who to apply the law to."

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Are you married, lol.

 

[ItsAllBallBearingsNowadays]

I think anything is possible

do you (or anyone reading this) recall the NCAA vacating wins, championships, etc based over bets that were placed?

No I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking. I would think if the school is compliant they’d be okay but if they try to hide something they’d be in trouble. I don’t know if they were to find out a player “should have been ineligible” would be enough.

 

[BonzoFury]

Ask the question, I’ll try to answer.

AuroraHawk, you're one of the most respected posters here. Have to ask...in Aurora...prosecutor? criminal defense? non-criminal practice? It's an interesting community.

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[Franisdaman]

Suspended athletes will still be allowed to practice; however, they will be withheld from competitions until the appeals process is over.

 

[Franisdaman]

Are you married, lol.

LOL

In all seriousness, what do you think about the DCI excluding women and women's sports and focusing only on men and the male sports?

 

[paednoch23]

LOL

In all seriousness, what do you think about the DCI excluding women and women's sports and focusing only on men and the male sports?

I think the broader question what do you think about the DCI excluding EVERYONE but male athletes? I think some heads are going to roll on this one. I'm no lawyer but this seems like Bias-Based profiling. I wonder if the DCI wanted these guys to be punished beyond more than just civil law. I think the state of Iowa should send the NCAA a bill for their services.

 

[AuroraHawk]

I think the broader question what do you think about the DCI excluding EVERYONE but male athletes?

From where did DCI obtain evidence which led to it learning the 111 names that it turned over to the UI? And what led them to that particular location(s)?

I don’t know specifically but, from what I’ve been told by those who are closer to the situation than me and those quite familiar with the technology regarding on-line gambling site access, in addition to publicly available materials, those referencing “geofencing” are likely on target.

Lots of assumptions by some posters based upon rather thin and anecdotal “stories.”

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

From where did DCI obtain evidence which led to it learning the 111 names that it turned over to the UI? And what led them to that particular location(s)?

I don’t know specifically but, from what I’ve been told by those who are closer to the situation than me and those quite familiar with the technology regarding on-line gambling site access, in addition to publicly available materials, those referencing “geofencing” are likely on target.

Lots of assumptions by some posters based upon rather thin and anecdotal “stories.”

The sportsbooks have Geofencing around the athletic buildings at Iowa and Iowa State, they saw the activity and ran to the DCI to investigate

 

[Franisdaman]

To be completely fair this thread is 19 pages and still going, I don't always feel like wading through that much to try and find a concrete answer. Nothing wrong with two threads about a subject.

Here is an important reminder from a month ago, which indicates at the very worst Noah Shannon would miss 6 games (but the way KF sounded, it would be less).








Possible penalties Noah Shannon is facing:


* Football players could lose half a season if they bet on ANY college football contests.

* For other wagering activity:

--- they would face a loss of 30% of the season if they wagered more than $800

---20% of the season if they wagered between $501 and $800

--10% of the season for $201 to $500

---and gambling education (no games missed) for $200 or less.

 

[BlIIlken2]

Should’ve just been an accessory to murder instead. Would’ve been less harsh of a penalty. What a ****ing joke.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

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Should’ve just been an accessory to murder instead. Would’ve been less harsh of a penalty. What a ****ing joke.

The NCAA is disgraceful

 

[Birky]

Or just better at hiding things, hmmmm...

I think gambling is like football. There are some women that do it, but it’s pretty rare.

I think it’s safe to say there are very few if not zero female athletes at Iowa gambling.