Someone - AGAIN - appears completely oblivious to how many "polio boosters" he got as a kid.
Vaccine Immunity stronger than Natural Immunity
- Thread starter Phenomenally Frantastic
- Start date
Someone - AGAIN - appears completely oblivious to how many "polio boosters" he got as a kid.
Such an innocuous bug -seemingly - yet there was a worldwide panic over it?
There wasn’t a vaccine created to calm this panic was there, per chance?
History doesn’t repeat itself, does it?
Wasn't "innocuous".
People LINED UP to get vaccines for their kids. Because they didn't want them ending up in an iron lung.
It’s what you posted, trying to make a point.
Point taken. 😂
“Where most infections are mild, asymptomatic.
With a very low fatality rate.
And large age gradient: kids are even lower risk than adults.
And less than 1% of kids have any serious complications at all.”
Good thing about numbers. They can always be adjusted.
Does it hurt? It should.Meanwhile, back at the lab, our trusty researchers are still trying to find out why/how their rna jabs are causing heart damage.
Typically this is something that they’re supposed to do before they get approval, but these are dire times.
Covid-19 Vaccines and Myocarditis Link Probed by Researchers
Several theories are under investigation by researchers seeking to explain heart-inflammation conditions among small numbers of vaccinated people.www.wsj.com
Are you advocating for the removal of antibiotics from our store of drugs? In case you missed it, they can cause ANAPHYLAXIS!!!! People f'n DIE!!! Antibiotics should be banned!!! Let the disease take it's course - it it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger...right?
Antibiotics and vaccines are in the same boat: greed caused their overuse and drove them to the point where they can do more harm than good.
Lol...first, how do you "overuse" a vaccine? The idea is idiotic on it's face.
B. The overuse of antibitics has not one f'n thing to do with thier efficacy. Penicillin was killing people from the jump and your dumb ass would have been calling for it to be prohibited based on that. It's exactly the same thing.
You’re probably right. Im sure you’ve done your homework.
“A new vaccine called Prevnar 7 was soon to be recommended for all U.S. children to prevent infections caused by Streptococcus pneumoniae, bacteria responsible for many cases of pneumonia, ear infections, meningitis and other illnesses among the elderly and young children. To date, scientists have discovered more than 90 distinct S. pneumoniae serotypes — groups that share distinctive immunological features on their cell surface — and Prevnar 7 targeted the seven serotypes that caused the brunt of serious infections. But Hanage, along with researchers, wondered what was going to happen to the more than 80 others. “It struck me, with my almost complete lack of formal training in evolutionary biology, that this was an extraordinary evolutionary experiment,” he said.
Hanage teamed up with Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist and microbiologist who had recently left Emory University for Harvard, and together the scientists — now both at Harvard — have been watching the pneumococcal population adapt to this new selection pressure. They and others have reported that while Prevnar 7 almost completely eliminated infections with the seven targeted serotypes, the other, rarer serotypes quickly swept in to take their place, including a serotype called 19A, which began causing a large proportion of serious pneumococcal infections. In response, in 2010, the U.S. introduced a new vaccine, Prevnar 13, which targets 19A and five additional serotypes. Previously unseen serotypes have again flourished in response. A 2017 paper in Pediatrics compared the situation to a high-stakes game of whack-a-mole. In essence, vaccination has completely restructured the pathogen population, twice.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/
By Marty Makary
Marty Makary is a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and Bloomberg School of Public Health
It’s okay to have an incorrect scientific hypothesis. But when new data proves it wrong, you have to adapt. Unfortunately, many elected leaders and public health officials have held on far too long to the hypothesis that natural immunity offers unreliable protection against covid-19 — a contention that is being rapidly debunked by science.
More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated. This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.” And in May, a Washington University study found that even a mild covid infection resulted in long-lasting immunity.
Coronavirus vaccines work. But this statistical illusion makes people think they don’t.
So, the emerging science suggests that natural immunity is as good as or better than vaccine-induced immunity. That’s why it’s so frustrating that the Biden administration has repeatedly argued that immunity conferred by vaccines is preferable to immunity caused by natural infection, as NIH director Francis Collins told Fox News host told Bret Baier a few weeks ago. That rigid adherence to an outdated theory is also reflected in President Biden’s recent announcement that large companies must require their employees to get vaccinated or submit to regular testing, regardless of whether they previously had the virus.
Downplaying the power of natural immunity has had deadly consequences. In January, February and March, we wasted scarce vaccine doses on millions of people who previously had covid. If we had asked Americans who were already protected by natural immunity to step aside in the vaccine line, tens of thousands of lives could have been saved. This is not just in hindsight is 20/20; many of us were vehemently arguing and writing at the time for such a rationing strategy.
One reason public health officials may be afraid to acknowledge the effectiveness of natural immunity is that they fear it will lead some to choose getting the infection over vaccination. That’s a legitimate concern. But we can encourage all Americans to get vaccinated while still being honest about the data. In my clinical experience, I have found patients to be extremely forgiving with evolving data if you are honest and transparent with them. Yet, when asked the common question, “I’ve recovered from covid, is it absolutely essential that I get vaccinated?” many public health officials have put aside the data and responded with a synchronized “yes,” even as studies have shown that reinfections are rare and often asymptomatic or mild when they do occur.
The tide may finally be shifting, as pressure has grown on federal officials. Last week on CNN, Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease specialist, hinted that the government may be rethinking its stance on natural immunity, saying, “I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously.” Some large medical centers, like Spectrum Health in Grand Rapids, Mich., have already announced they will recognize natural immunity for their vaccine requirements. Some Republican governors have picked up on public frustration over how the scientific guidance is inconsistent with the data, with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis accusing the Biden administration of “not following science” by crafting its vaccine mandate without taking into consideration “infection-conferred immunity.”
Booster shots won’t stop the delta variant. Here’s the math to prove it.
The current Centers for Disease Control and Prevention position about vaccinating children also dismisses the benefits of natural immunity. The Los Angeles County School District recently mandated vaccines for students ages 12 and up who want to learn in person. But young people are less likely to suffer severe or long-lasting symptoms from covid-19 than adults, and have experienced rare heart complications from the vaccines. In Israel, heart inflammation has been observed in between 1 in 3,000 and 1 in 6,000 males age 16 to 24; the CDC has confirmed 854 reports nationally in people age 30 and younger who got the vaccine.
A second dose of the two-shot mRNA vaccine like that produced by Pfizer and Moderna may not even be necessary in children who had covid. Since February, Israel’s Health Ministry has been recommending that anyone, adult or adolescent, who has recovered from covid-19 receive a only single mRNA vaccine dose, instead of two. Even though the risk of severe illness during a reinfection is exceedingly low, some data has demonstrated a slight benefit to one dose in this situation. Other countries use a similar approach. The United States could adopt this strategy now as a reasonable next step in transitioning from an overly rigid to a more flexible vaccine requirement policy. For comparison, the CDC has long recommended that kids do not get the chickenpox vaccine if they had chickenpox infection in the past.
The incorrect hypothesis that natural immunity is unreliable has resulted in the loss of thousands of American lives, avoidable vaccine complications, and damaged the credibility of public health officials. Given the recent mandate announcement by the White House, it would be good for our public health leaders to show humility by acknowledging that the hypothesis they repeatedly trumpeted was not only wrong, but it may be harmful. Let’s all come together around the mounting body of scientific literature and real-world clinical experience that is telling us not to require the full vaccine regimen in people who recovered from covid in the past. Public health officials changing their position on natural immunity, after so much hostility toward the idea, would go a long way in rebuilding the public trust.
By Marty Makary
Marty Makary is a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and Bloomberg School of Public Health
It’s okay to have an incorrect scientific hypothesis. But when new data proves it wrong, you have to adapt. Unfortunately, many elected leaders and public health officials have held on far too long to the hypothesis that natural immunity offers unreliable protection against covid-19 — a contention that is being rapidly debunked by science.
More than 15 studies have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. A 700,000-person study from Israel two weeks ago found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated. This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.” And in May, a Washington University study found that even a mild covid infection resulted in long-lasting immunity.
Coronavirus vaccines work. But this statistical illusion makes people think they don’t.
So, the emerging science suggests that natural immunity is as good as or better than vaccine-induced immunity. That’s why it’s so frustrating that the Biden administration has repeatedly argued that immunity conferred by vaccines is preferable to immunity caused by natural infection, as NIH director Francis Collins told Fox News host told Bret Baier a few weeks ago. That rigid adherence to an outdated theory is also reflected in President Biden’s recent announcement that large companies must require their employees to get vaccinated or submit to regular testing, regardless of whether they previously had the virus.
Downplaying the power of natural immunity has had deadly consequences. In January, February and March, we wasted scarce vaccine doses on millions of people who previously had covid. If we had asked Americans who were already protected by natural immunity to step aside in the vaccine line, tens of thousands of lives could have been saved. This is not just in hindsight is 20/20; many of us were vehemently arguing and writing at the time for such a rationing strategy.
One reason public health officials may be afraid to acknowledge the effectiveness of natural immunity is that they fear it will lead some to choose getting the infection over vaccination. That’s a legitimate concern. But we can encourage all Americans to get vaccinated while still being honest about the data. In my clinical experience, I have found patients to be extremely forgiving with evolving data if you are honest and transparent with them. Yet, when asked the common question, “I’ve recovered from covid, is it absolutely essential that I get vaccinated?” many public health officials have put aside the data and responded with a synchronized “yes,” even as studies have shown that reinfections are rare and often asymptomatic or mild when they do occur.
The tide may finally be shifting, as pressure has grown on federal officials. Last week on CNN, Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease specialist, hinted that the government may be rethinking its stance on natural immunity, saying, “I think that is something that we need to sit down and discuss seriously.” Some large medical centers, like Spectrum Health in Grand Rapids, Mich., have already announced they will recognize natural immunity for their vaccine requirements. Some Republican governors have picked up on public frustration over how the scientific guidance is inconsistent with the data, with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis accusing the Biden administration of “not following science” by crafting its vaccine mandate without taking into consideration “infection-conferred immunity.”
Booster shots won’t stop the delta variant. Here’s the math to prove it.
The current Centers for Disease Control and Prevention position about vaccinating children also dismisses the benefits of natural immunity. The Los Angeles County School District recently mandated vaccines for students ages 12 and up who want to learn in person. But young people are less likely to suffer severe or long-lasting symptoms from covid-19 than adults, and have experienced rare heart complications from the vaccines. In Israel, heart inflammation has been observed in between 1 in 3,000 and 1 in 6,000 males age 16 to 24; the CDC has confirmed 854 reports nationally in people age 30 and younger who got the vaccine.
A second dose of the two-shot mRNA vaccine like that produced by Pfizer and Moderna may not even be necessary in children who had covid. Since February, Israel’s Health Ministry has been recommending that anyone, adult or adolescent, who has recovered from covid-19 receive a only single mRNA vaccine dose, instead of two. Even though the risk of severe illness during a reinfection is exceedingly low, some data has demonstrated a slight benefit to one dose in this situation. Other countries use a similar approach. The United States could adopt this strategy now as a reasonable next step in transitioning from an overly rigid to a more flexible vaccine requirement policy. For comparison, the CDC has long recommended that kids do not get the chickenpox vaccine if they had chickenpox infection in the past.
The incorrect hypothesis that natural immunity is unreliable has resulted in the loss of thousands of American lives, avoidable vaccine complications, and damaged the credibility of public health officials. Given the recent mandate announcement by the White House, it would be good for our public health leaders to show humility by acknowledging that the hypothesis they repeatedly trumpeted was not only wrong, but it may be harmful. Let’s all come together around the mounting body of scientific literature and real-world clinical experience that is telling us not to require the full vaccine regimen in people who recovered from covid in the past. Public health officials changing their position on natural immunity, after so much hostility toward the idea, would go a long way in rebuilding the public trust.
And this is pretty much my position across the board, even before I read the article.
https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...ines-should-not-be-required-for-all-americans
https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...ines-should-not-be-required-for-all-americans
Source: Vikes' Dozier hospitalized for COVID
A Vikings player who is vaccinated was hospitalized Tuesday because he was having trouble breathing due to COVID-19, coach Mike Zimmer said Wednesday. According to a source, the player is offensive guard Dakota Dozier.
www.espn.com
This is an overly generalized statement.
"Natural immunity" can vary quite a lot; much moreso than vaccine-induced immunity.
If the cited studies are for immunity based on symptomatic disease, then that's a rather biased subset of actual cases.
Why do you keep citing a guy who makes demonstrably false claims?
"Immunity is something people can test for with a simple antibody test."
Nope.
160 Plus Research Studies Affirm Naturally Acquired Immunity to Covid-19: Documented, Linked, and Quoted ⋆ Brownstone Institute
This follow-up chart is a list of scientific studies and evidence on natural immunity to allow you to draw your own conclusions..
brownstone.org
Who is claiming that acquired immunity from Covid doesn't happen?160 Plus Research Studies Affirm Naturally Acquired Immunity to Covid-19: Documented, Linked, and Quoted ⋆ Brownstone Institute
This follow-up chart is a list of scientific studies and evidence on natural immunity to allow you to draw your own conclusions..
You're FAR better off getting it thru the vaccine BEFORE you get Covid, because then you're super-immune.
Ummm...how exactly? Is the claim that there are thousands of Americans who died because they got vaccinated? Yeah...I'm going to need a citation on that. If I believe that natural immunity is less effective, I'm more likely to get vaccinated and have robust protection against dying - and I can produce citation after citation for that. And if I don't trust the vaccine, it really doesn't matter what I believe about natural immunity. Could you, perhaps, explain what they're trying to say here?
What HAS cost thousands of lives is the bullshit rhetoric about the vaccine.
His Op Ed buddy has LOADS of generalizations and disinformation in those write ups.
I've already pointed out a couple that just slide on by for the MAGA brains...
We don't hear a lot about IVM anymore. Wonder why that is....
Be that as it may, I really would like to see @Finance85 explain that claim. How - exactly - has a belief that natural immunity isn't very effective killed literally "thousands of Americans"?
Well?
And, once again: OF COURSE THEY DO NOT, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT MAINTAIN ANY INDIVIDUAL PATIENT RECORDS.
Wake me when Pfizer can best nature: 90 years v. 90 days, hmmm
www.google.com
Flu survivors still immune after 90 years
Nine decades on, survivors of the 1918 flu still produce antibodies that can neutralise the reconstructed virus
www.google.com
Wake me when Pfizer can best nature: 90 years v. 90 days, hmmm
Flu survivors still immune after 90 years
Nine decades on, survivors of the 1918 flu still produce antibodies that can neutralise the reconstructed virus
LOLWUT?
EVERYONE with a Pfizer vaccine is now immune to Alpha and original Covid.
Just like the flu immunity you're referring to.
But we've had a half dozen "flu pandemics" over the past 90 years.
See if you can figure this one out, without having to "phone a 5th grader"....
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