We start 4 seniors on offense (the rest are currently SOs).....

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
43,236
75,305
113
Sure, yeah, all that .... but the offense sucks. We can't allow that. :rolleyes:
🙄

Stop being a homer. Outside of the COVID year, in which the Iowa offense was a little better than mediocre, they have been pretty putrid, especially against any defense with a pulse. Also, how often has the defense handed the O a short field from forcing turnovers or myriad three and outs? A lot. So factor that in too.

But, okay, if you guys want to indulge an alternative reality or put lipstick on a pig, well…clearly that means you are such smarter and better fans. 🙄

Seriously, if you can say with a straight face the Iowa offense has been just fine, I don’t know what to tell ya.

Unbelievable.
 

pistachio1999

HR All-American
Nov 29, 2021
3,585
4,180
113
🙄

Stop being a homer. Outside of the COVID year, in which the Iowa offense was a little better than mediocre, they have been pretty putrid, especially against any defense with a pulse. Also, how often has the defense handed the O a short field from forcing turnovers or myriad three and outs? A lot. So factor that in too.

But, okay, if you guys want to indulge an alternative reality or put lipstick on a pig, well…clearly that means you are such smarter and better fans. 🙄

Seriously, if you can say with a straight face the Iowa offense has been just fine, I don’t know what to tell ya.

Unbelievable.
We are just saying we were 10 -2 last year. Maybe we could have been 11 - 1 ?? We tried the backup last year also and he had a lesser completion % than Petras, so where do we go? Was it playbook, OC, Petras and Padilla sucking, OL below average, a RB that liked to dance around before going forward or 22 year Kirk just really does love that style??
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
43,236
75,305
113
In one metric. One that pretty much has no meaning with regards to Iowa Football because of our game philosophy and style of play. Gotta use that to fit your narrative though eh?
JFC, what are some of you people on? El oh el.

Yes, clearly this is about a “narrative.” 🙄
And, yeah, game style and philosophy are why Iowa averaged a 57% completion percentage in 2020 against teams (outside of NW) who were trash or mediocre (4-3 Pissconsin was the signature win of the season).

But, by all means, shift the “narrative” to how good Iowa was offensively in 2020. I love revisionist history. Yes, Tyler Goodson was the one bright spot on an otherwise putrid offense, but Iowa was far from a good offense in 2020. Jeezus.
 

SDHawkDoc

HR Heisman
Jan 27, 2013
9,001
9,408
113
🙄

Stop being a homer. Outside of the COVID year, in which the Iowa offense was a little better than mediocre, they have been pretty putrid, especially against any defense with a pulse. Also, how often has the defense handed the O a short field from forcing turnovers or myriad three and outs? A lot. So factor that in too.

But, okay, if you guys want to indulge an alternative reality or put lipstick on a pig, well…clearly that means you are such smarter and better fans. 🙄

Seriously, if you can say with a straight face the Iowa offense has been just fine, I don’t know what to tell ya.

Unbelievable.
Lots of different perspectives on the Iowa offense.

One point that I hold a perspective on, which maybe few others do, is regarding the lack of entertainment value.
I've been a lifelong fan with direct ties to the U of I as a 2nd generation alum with a parent who attended U of I and 2 of 3 kids who are U of I grads. In the end, though, I watch the games not just because of these ties, but to be entertained. I understand that Kirk and the team owe me nothing on this front. But, frankly, the Iowa offense is a long way from fun to watch. And there have been more than a few times in recent years when I turn to another game to watch something exciting.
So, I"m selfishly hoping for more offensive production for improved entertainment value of the product. Maybe I'm alone in that, but so what.
 

Ree4

HR MVP
Oct 13, 2009
1,733
1,463
113
JFC, what are some of you people on? El oh el.

Yes, clearly this is about a “narrative.” 🙄
And, yeah, game style and philosophy are why Iowa averaged a 57% completion percentage in 2020 against teams (outside of NW) who were trash or mediocre (4-3 Pissconsin was the signature win of the season).

But, by all means, shift the “narrative” to how good Iowa was offensively in 2020. I love revisionist history. Yes, Tyler Goodson was the one bright spot on an otherwise putrid offense, but Iowa was far from a good offense in 2020. Jeezus.
Iowa was 39th in ppg, see how much difference it makes when you choose a specific metric? You seem like a guy that would love Nebraska football - lot of yards gained between the 20s.
 

ghostOfHomer777

HR Heisman
May 20, 2014
8,448
9,708
113
But, by all means, shift the “narrative” to how good Iowa was offensively in 2020. I love revisionist history. Yes, Tyler Goodson was the one bright spot on an otherwise putrid offense, but Iowa was far from a good offense in 2020. Jeezus.
Apart from hiccups through the first 2 games ... hell yeah, the Iowa O was good in 2020.

Iowa's scoring O was 2nd in the B1G in 2020 ... 2nd only to Ohio State!

2020 B1G football stats
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
15,818
21,356
113
🙄

Stop being a homer. Outside of the COVID year, in which the Iowa offense was a little better than mediocre, they have been pretty putrid, especially against any defense with a pulse. Also, how often has the defense handed the O a short field from forcing turnovers or myriad three and outs? A lot. So factor that in too.

But, okay, if you guys want to indulge an alternative reality or put lipstick on a pig, well…clearly that means you are such smarter and better fans. 🙄

Seriously, if you can say with a straight face the Iowa offense has been just fine, I don’t know what to tell ya.

Unbelievable.
The offense clearly sucks. No argument from, well, anyone.

But, the team wins games. Maybe with a pick 6 or a blocked punt, but they win a lot of games. Any discussion of KF has to start with that.

But, yes, the offense sucks. More games could possibly be won. Some close games might not be so close. The team might be more fun to watch.

Its really not all that unusual for a very good team to be limited somewhere. Maybe it's pass defense, or pass offense, or a crappy kicking game. Many times that weakness gets exploited and the team loses. The Hawks have been able to put up W's.

Of course, it needs to get better if you want the Hawks to do something really special. But as they say, you don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

And, you hold on to a coach that wins games.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
43,236
75,305
113
We are just saying we were 10 -2 last year. Maybe we could have been 11 - 1 ?? We tried the backup last year also and he had a lesser completion % than Petras, so where do we go? Was it playbook, OC, Petras and Padilla sucking, OL below average, a RB that liked to dance around before going forward or 22 year Kirk just really does love that style??
Iowa had an exceptionally great defense last year that was very opportunistic and forced a lot of turnovers. To win ten games with that shit offense is remarkable, and Phil (and Kirk) deserve a lot of credit.

I’m not suggesting Alex Padilla was a great option, but in fairness to him it seemed like he was willing to attempt more passes down the field, which led to a lower completion percentage, whereas Petras had much fewer “riskier” throws by completing more check downs and dump offs. Again, though, neither quarterback really showed much in the way of accuracy. Padilla was a little bit more mobile while Petras threw more short throws, leading to a higher completion percentage, and that’s about all you can say in the way of positives.

As for the rest of your ?s, I think it was a mixture of all of the above. I don’t think it’s Kirk’s style of offense per se that’s the problem. It’s the fact you have had poor OL play, a practically nonexistent run game, and a woefully inaccurate quarterback with no mobility whatsoever. Yes, Brian got into predictable patterns of play calling and formations, but there’s not a lot you can dial up that’s going to be successful in those circumstances.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
43,236
75,305
113
Apart from hiccups through the first 2 games ... hell yeah, the Iowa O was good in 2020.

Iowa's scoring O was 2nd in the B1G in 2020 ... 2nd only to Ohio State!

2020 B1G football stats
Again, I’m acutely aware of the scoring average. There are a lot of factors that go into that, including the opportunities the defense hands you by forcing turnovers and increasing TOP by them getting off the field after numerous three and outs.

Iowa was also able to run the football for the most part in 2020. However, and this is why I can’t agree the offense was “good,” you had a star potential TE in sophomore Sam LaPorta and two solid wide receivers in ISM and Brandon Smith, and yet your offense couldn’t even produce 200 yards passing a game. Yes, it was Petras’s first year as a starter. Yes, it was a weird season due to starting late because of COVID, but to say the Iowa offense was “good” is quite a stretch IMO.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
43,236
75,305
113
Iowa was 39th in ppg, see how much difference it makes when you choose a specific metric? You seem like a guy that would love Nebraska football - lot of yards gained between the 20s.
Lol. Are you really hanging your hat on being 39th in ppg against a lot of trash teams? I mean, lol, I’m not saying that is horrible, but I don’t think 39th translates to being “good” as has been argued.

Again, el oh el.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
43,236
75,305
113
Lots of different perspectives on the Iowa offense.

One point that I hold a perspective on, which maybe few others do, is regarding the lack of entertainment value.
I've been a lifelong fan with direct ties to the U of I as a 2nd generation alum with a parent who attended U of I and 2 of 3 kids who are U of I grads. In the end, though, I watch the games not just because of these ties, but to be entertained. I understand that Kirk and the team owe me nothing on this front. But, frankly, the Iowa offense is a long way from fun to watch. And there have been more than a few times in recent years when I turn to another game to watch something exciting.
So, I"m selfishly hoping for more offensive production for improved entertainment value of the product. Maybe I'm alone in that, but so what.
Honestly, I agree about the entertainment value. In fairness, though, I think the Iowa offense can be entertaining if they are accomplishing Kirk’s publicly stated goals of being balanced and establishing the run, as that tends to open up a lot of downfield plays.
 
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owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,008
4,579
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
The offense clearly sucks. No argument from, well, anyone.

But, the team wins games. Maybe with a pick 6 or a blocked punt, but they win a lot of games. Any discussion of KF has to start with that.

But, yes, the offense sucks. More games could possibly be won. Some close games might not be so close. The team might be more fun to watch.

Its really not all that unusual for a very good team to be limited somewhere. Maybe it's pass defense, or pass offense, or a crappy kicking game. Many times that weakness gets exploited and the team loses. The Hawks have been able to put up W's.

Of course, it needs to get better if you want the Hawks to do something really special. But as they say, you don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

And, you hold on to a coach that wins games.
Exactly - this. Iowa is a very good program and Ferentz is a very good coach. He has a style that he has maximized to have a very good program (and one that has been better the last 7 years than it was the previous 7-8 years.

No one thinks the Offense if very good right now. It was good in 2020. And whoever mentioned the style of play, yes that probably plays into some of the complaints (though when the OL is good and have other pieces, it's not bad to watch).

But as you say, any team that is not CFP elite (the Alabama, Georgia, OSU of the world) are going to have limitations somewhere. Ferentz has decided to build his team around great Defense and Special Teams. He wants to have great kicking and coverage teams on Special Teams to maximize field position and allow his great Defense to be opportunistic, keeping the ball in front of them and giving up yards between the 20's, know a team is likely going to make a mistake and turn it over (Norm Parker philosphy).

If Iowa had a really good Offense, they would be a Top 5 program most years. We can debate if that is realistic given Iowa isn't a traditional blue blood and other limitations but the reality is Iowa is a top 7 - 15 type program right now and the idea of replacing Ferentz is laughable just so we can have a more "exciting" style Offense to watch. I'd rather watch the team win games.
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

HR Legend
Jun 23, 2017
43,236
75,305
113
The offense clearly sucks. No argument from, well, anyone.

But, the team wins games. Maybe with a pick 6 or a blocked punt, but they win a lot of games. Any discussion of KF has to start with that.

But, yes, the offense sucks. More games could possibly be won. Some close games might not be so close. The team might be more fun to watch.

Its really not all that unusual for a very good team to be limited somewhere. Maybe it's pass defense, or pass offense, or a crappy kicking game. Many times that weakness gets exploited and the team loses. The Hawks have been able to put up W's.

Of course, it needs to get better if you want the Hawks to do something really special. But as they say, you don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

And, you hold on to a coach that wins games.
I’m in disagreement with none of that.

Again, let me be clear: I’m. Not. Calling. For. Kirk’s. Head. Furthermore, a significant part of Kirk’s longevity has been his ability to adapt to changes in college football over twenty-plus years in addition to the fact he’s a damn good coach. In short, his record and accomplishments speak for themselves. Just so we’re clear.

My point is simply bringing into question how much longer he can continue to adapt and keep Iowa football at the competitive level it’s been at. Yes, we have a phenomenal defense and do pretty well in special teams. I won’t belabor the point about the offense, but it is relevant to ask if it can be fixed under Kirk to the point of being at least respectable. Because I can tell you this: If the offense doesn’t improve significantly, Iowa is not going to come close to continuing the success it’s had as of late. And I think the last thing anyone wants to see is Kirk retiring the way Hayden did. Yes, I know he was dealing with cancer, but his latter teams really underachieved before that dreadful 1998 season. I just don’t want something similar to happen with Kirk. I’d love to see him go out in style, like with Iowa winning a bowl game in similar fashion to the Holiday Bowl against USC.
 

83Hawk

HR Legend
Sep 17, 2002
21,325
16,056
113
I don’t see why Iowa can’t have a good defense AND a good offense. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
 
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ghostOfHomer777

HR Heisman
May 20, 2014
8,448
9,708
113
Again, I’m acutely aware of the scoring average. There are a lot of factors that go into that, including the opportunities the defense hands you by forcing turnovers and increasing TOP by them getting off the field after numerous three and outs.

Iowa was also able to run the football for the most part in 2020. However, and this is why I can’t agree the offense was “good,” you had a star potential TE in sophomore Sam LaPorta and two solid wide receivers in ISM and Brandon Smith, and yet your offense couldn’t even produce 200 yards passing a game. Yes, it was Petras’s first year as a starter. Yes, it was a weird season due to starting late because of COVID, but to say the Iowa offense was “good” is quite a stretch IMO.
Sam was still young that year - too early to speak of "star potential." Potential is just that ... it's up to the guy realize it. ISM was good ... but surprisingly inconsistent. And yeah, it's true ... Petras was Petras ... and still just a first year starter.

We also happened to have Sargent and Goodson ... so it wasn't a bad thing to rely on a running game that was a strength of the team.
 
May 27, 2010
15,523
19,525
113
We are just saying we were 10 -2 last year. Maybe we could have been 11 - 1 ?? We tried the backup last year also and he had a lesser completion % than Petras, so where do we go? Was it playbook, OC, Petras and Padilla sucking, OL below average, a RB that liked to dance around before going forward or 22 year Kirk just really does love that style??
Pretty much all of the above to some degree. That’s Ferentz football unless an overly dynamic group of skill players and highly effective OL emerges like in 2002 and everything just clicks. I believe the offense will be better and will improve as the season progresses, but this isn’t 2002 unfortunately.
 

uihawk82

HR All-State
Nov 17, 2021
896
1,011
93
That blows the mind of some ... them not realizing that our sun's natural progression will be to enter its red-giant phase. Fortunately, given the mass of the sun ... that is still likely well over a billion years in the future. We have more than enough opportunity to drive ourselves to extinction first!
Most astronomers and astrophysicists have the Sun going a few more billion years before it expands out to Mars' orbit and vaporizes the Earth. That is why I will get cremated since we all will eventually
 
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Feb 25, 2008
53,433
26,796
113
I’m in disagreement with none of that.

Again, let me be clear: I’m. Not. Calling. For. Kirk’s. Head. Furthermore, a significant part of Kirk’s longevity has been his ability to adapt to changes in college football over twenty-plus years in addition to the fact he’s a damn good coach. In short, his record and accomplishments speak for themselves. Just so we’re clear.

My point is simply bringing into question how much longer he can continue to adapt and keep Iowa football at the competitive level it’s been at. Yes, we have a phenomenal defense and do pretty well in special teams. I won’t belabor the point about the offense, but it is relevant to ask if it can be fixed under Kirk to the point of being at least respectable. Because I can tell you this: If the offense doesn’t improve significantly, Iowa is not going to come close to continuing the success it’s had as of late. And I think the last thing anyone wants to see is Kirk retiring the way Hayden did. Yes, I know he was dealing with cancer, but his latter teams really underachieved before that dreadful 1998 season. I just don’t want something similar to happen with Kirk. I’d love to see him go out in style, like with Iowa winning a bowl game in similar fashion to the Holiday Bowl against USC.
Or a National Championship.....
 
Feb 25, 2008
53,433
26,796
113
How many teams really do? Obviously the disparity is to wide, but still…
Interesting question.

It's funny how differently we constitute what a good offense and what a good defense is from a statistical perspective.

A top 50 defense is considered good or above average, but it's not until you get to the 30s and 20s where people start saying hey that's a damn good defense, and typically where Iowa needs to be in order to thrive.

Meanwhile, because offense is so skewed now, just being a top 50 offense is considered solid by many, and something Iowa fans would ABSOLUTELY sign up for annually.


So to get to my point, I am gonna look up just how many teams finished in the top 50 in both offense and defense last year.
 
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owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,008
4,579
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
Lol. Are you really hanging your hat on being 39th in ppg against a lot of trash teams? I mean, lol, I’m not saying that is horrible, but I don’t think 39th translates to being “good” as has been argued.

Again, el oh el.
LOL ... you love that phrase. 39th in the nation translates to 32 pts per game. That is better than more than 2/3rd of college football. Seeing as Iowa's Defense only gave up 16 per game, yeah that's pretty good. And now the Big Ten is trash? Who do you think these other teams play? The Big Ten is the 2nd best conference in the nation and defensively, the teams are light years better than most every other conference that isn't the SEC.

Goal posts seem to move for you a lot. Iowa was legitimately bad offensively last year (and there are quite a few reasons for that - bad OL play most of the year, an RB who didn't get tough yards and was terrible at blitz pick-up, lots of dropped passes by receivers, and sub-par QB play that was highlighted due to some of the other issues.

Iowa was a good - not great - Offense the year before when low and behold, most of those issues in 2021 didn't come into play. OL was more veteran and solid, RB's were running for more chunks of yards consistently, and drops were not as much a problem. That happens, the QB looks better and the offensive system looks better.

Everyone is wringing their hands over Jones performance last night but guess what, Purdue still lost. Brohm has a losing record over his tenure. Guess what Iowa's is during that time ... 43-18. Pretty significant difference. Yeah, he has some exciting Offenses but in the end, he loses more than he wins. He had a 3 point lead with less than 8 minutes left and for TWO possessions he kept throwing the ball instead of running and trying milk clock ... and it bit him. Maybe because he doesn't believe in his Defense and ST's because all he worries about is his Offense?

Jones will put up very good numbers for Purdue ... and realistically anyone in that #1 WR spot for Purdue would as well. It could have been Keagan Johnson or Arland Bruce transferring and would likely be the same thing.
 
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owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,008
4,579
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
And yet they were pounding opponents the last 6 games that year. It took them two games to get going but then even Petras was producing
That's because he is looking only at total yards, which any Iowa fan should realize that is rarely a metric Iowa is going to rank high in. Why? Because Iowa's philosophy is to shorten the game and number of plays, play field position to utilize the team's strengths (Defense and Special Teams). Scoring Offense and Offensive Efficiency are way more important than total yards but the average fan just sees the Total Yards ranking and acts like that is everything.
 
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ghostOfHomer777

HR Heisman
May 20, 2014
8,448
9,708
113
It's odd ... if Iowa's scoring O is averaging over 30 points per game ... then, in years when Iowa's D is truly elite (which happens with pretty decent frequency) ... we then are allowing what, on the order of around 16 points per game?

A margin of 2 scores per game? That's winning football!
 
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owenhawk

HR All-American
Dec 6, 2004
3,008
4,579
113
Iowa, Cedar Rapids
I don’t see why Iowa can’t have a good defense AND a good offense. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
They aren't but some Iowa fans don't seem to understand that the philosophy plays into the Offensive stats somewhat. Don't you think that if Iowa has a more loose Offense that throws the ball around and takes more chances might have more TO's and put the Defense in worse spots than it currently does?

If Iowa has an Offense closer to 2020 rather than 2021, they are going to win a lot of games. And more consistent OL play and stronger run game likely will lead to more efficient Offense and putting our likely limited QB's in better spots on 2nd and 3rd downs.
 
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HawkLogic

HR Legend
Feb 20, 2011
14,030
10,285
113
Iowa had an exceptionally great defense last year that was very opportunistic and forced a lot of turnovers. To win ten games with that shit offense is remarkable, and Phil (and Kirk) deserve a lot of credit.

I’m not suggesting Alex Padilla was a great option, but in fairness to him it seemed like he was willing to attempt more passes down the field, which led to a lower completion percentage, whereas Petras had much fewer “riskier” throws by completing more check downs and dump offs. Again, though, neither quarterback really showed much in the way of accuracy. Padilla was a little bit more mobile while Petras threw more short throws, leading to a higher completion percentage, and that’s about all you can say in the way of positives.

As for the rest of your ?s, I think it was a mixture of all of the above. I don’t think it’s Kirk’s style of offense per se that’s the problem. It’s the fact you have had poor OL play, a practically nonexistent run game, and a woefully inaccurate quarterback with no mobility whatsoever. Yes, Brian got into predictable patterns of play calling and formations, but there’s not a lot you can dial up that’s going to be successful in those circumstances.

Yeah, bad oline and non-existent run game was the core of the problem. Below average QB tops it off and you end up with an offense in Bottom 10%. Nobody is going to playcall out of that hand, however the guy calling the plays also is the one that setup the hand.

The woodshed beating by Michigan kind of showed Iowa success was product of weak B1G west. Defense deserved better.
 

CornFed83

Team MVP
Jan 3, 2020
299
500
63
LOL hanging your hat on offensive numbers from a covid season. Good or bad that lacks credibility.

An OL guru roams the sidelines. Iowa consistently has great individual lineman who find their way to the NFL. Rarely does Iowa have a dominant OL.
 
Feb 25, 2008
53,433
26,796
113
LOL hanging your hat on offensive numbers from a covid season. Good or bad that lacks credibility.

An OL guru roams the sidelines. Iowa consistently has great individual lineman who find their way to the NFL. Rarely does Iowa have a dominant OL.
Iowa OL > your team's OL
 

mazda1

HR All-American
Sep 22, 2015
2,728
3,140
113
Two thoughts
1. We’re bitching about an offense that is yet to play a down.
2. In 23 we have 2 dynamic OL recruits and most of the starters will be experienced juniors. The running back room will all have a year of experience. The wide receivers have to be healthier.

I just don’t see the need to attack the offense until we play some games. The future looks good.
 

RothMatt

All-Conference
Nov 18, 2019
366
467
63
Agreed. Honestly I would sign up right now for 20 more years just like the last 20, warts and all. I just worry that the list of non-blue blood CFB programs that took a step back following coaching changes is a lot longer than the list of programs that didn’t skip a beat or improved. Off the top of my head I think of schools like Wisconsin (and Iowa for that matter after JHF) that didn’t skip a beat and schools like Virginia Tech, Kansas St, Colorado, Tennessee, Nebraska, and many others that stumbled badly when their iconic coaches retired. Obviously there is no way to know ahead of time and it’s all hypothetical but count me among the fans that isn’t looking forward to the day KF retires.
This, 100%
He's the devil we know and the next guy could just be a buy out waiting to happen.
 
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