What is the answer?

[Gusaford]

My two cents. Iowa should start looking internationally. Getting beat by PSU and tOSU for the best US recruits? I suspect there's a lot of talented kids in faraway places who'd like nothing better than to train with TnT and get a US education.

This happens in other sports all the time. UCONN women's BB has more international kids than US-born kids. UCONN appears to have made the move internationally to extend its dominance once the recruiting landscape in this country became more competitive. Trinity squash was second fiddle to Ivy League teams for years. Trinity went international, got a steady pipeline of kids from Europe and Egypt, and went on a tear winning nationals more than 10 straight times.

So, I'd tell the staff to go to cadet and world juniors, start meeting some kids, and forge relationships with their coaches.

There's a first mover advantage.

 

[Urohawk]

My two cents. Iowa should start looking internationally. Getting beat by PSU and tOSU for the best US recruits? I suspect there's a lot of talented kids in faraway places who'd like nothing better than to train with TnT and get a US education.

This happens in other sports all the time. UCONN women's BB has more international kids than US-born kids. UCONN appears to have made the move internationally to extend its dominance once the recruiting landscape in this country became more competitive. Trinity squash was second fiddle to Ivy League teams for years. Trinity went international, got a steady pipeline of kids from Europe and Egypt, and went on a tear winning nationals more than 10 straight times.

So, I'd tell the staff to go to cadet and world juniors, start meeting some kids, and forge relationships with their coaches.

There's a first mover advantage.

That's pretty ingenious. Wonder what foreigners would say about college training detracting from their olympic development.

 

[impalanut]

I don't. understand why you think. there are more or better points at the upper weights. There are the same number of points available at each weight. There are fewer wrestlers at 125 due to fewer people able to make that low a weight. there are fewer wrestlers at heavy due to going to other sports like football. This is the same for every team. The weights with fewer people make the better wrestlers a higher. priority since there are fewer of them. That means that a great wrestler in these weights would. have more relative value than the other weights due to availability. This may explain why the hawks. have so much better numbers in the light weight group, since they have dominated the 125 weight and this is the most difficult area to get great wrestlers.

Presumably the middle weights have the most people available, since there are more wrestlers at these weights.
If. you look at the lightweights as 133-149 and the heaviers at 157-197, why would. the weights themselves be any more valuable than any others?

If one team is out scoring another team at any group of weights, is it not due to things other than the weight itself?

Now we are discussing recruiting and training.

In the above example, if the heavy weights are outscoring the lighter weights, but there is the same available number of points, why is it the weights and not the recruiting and training?
My point being that you have to have production across the board, and that any team that specifically recruits and trains well at only a portion of the weights, will have a difficult time.

BTW, I love this type of discussion, rather than the petty "you stink, no you stink worse" stuff that goes on too much.
thanks for the analysis above.

 

[Mat Burn]

That's pretty ingenious. Wonder what foreigners would say about college training detracting from their olympic development.

We saw that experiment at Ohio State. Didn't work out wrestling wise, and ignore the personal issues the kid had.

I believe those trained in freestyle, would have a tough transition to folkstyle because of the emphasis of control for scoring, and mat wrestling.

Likewise it takes time (years) for our best folkstyle wrestlers to become beasts in freestyle.

 

[redghost1974]

To the point on health, it's easier to keep healthy knees when you score the take down cleanly, not putting yourself into scramble situations that end up torqueing the knees. I think that was what Lee was doing this year risking a roll through to not be in those situations to risk hid repaired knees.

 

[Gusaford]

We saw that experiment at Ohio State. Didn't work out wrestling wise, and ignore the personal issues the kid had.

I believe those trained in freestyle, would have a tough transition to folkstyle because of the emphasis of control for scoring, and mat wrestling.

Likewise it takes time (years) for our best folkstyle wrestlers to become beasts in freestyle.

That's a sample set of one that you're citing at tOSU.

 

[js8793]

Hand fighting and holding position is not considered sexy as Ferentz would say. There is some truth to this. TNT excelled at hand fighting and short offense. Yes they are important skills to have but too many of our guys seem to evolve into carbon copies of the same thing. Brands talks incessantly about scoring points but most of our guys are playing small ball vs hitting home runs.

Like it or not PSU are more mentally and physically prepared to actually score big points. Year after year they have guys hit big moves in big matches, it's no accident. It's coached and practiced to take it if it's there and execution of those types of moves is practiced. Their guys wrestle to win vs not to lose. Their guys wrestle without fear. They have a full bag of tools and are not afraid to use them. They are generally well trained in what to do in any positions they encounter and their individual match planning is next level.

Very good post and I love the baseball analogy, though I think I'd flip it. PSU plays a lot of small ball. No team is better at always looking to score the next point. They wrestle through every position with diverse skillsets. And that creates the pressure that opens up the big moves. A couple singles turns into a 2 run double or worse.

That's where I'd like to see the philosophy change. Iowa is right that pressure is important, but I don't know if they have the right conception of what pressure is. The days of wilting guys by hanging on their head are over. You have to make them react and flurry over and over again. Make them keep up with your *wrestling*, not your handfighting.

 

[Mat Burn]

That's a sample set of one that you're citing at tOSU.

OK how about Bastida then?

The point is the transition is difficult, thus the small sample size.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I've avoided this shit show of a board (because of the PSU losers) until now so I'll give my 2 cents. Literally knowing 1/4 of the team and their parents because my kid wrestled with them growing up and in clubs here's my take...

Sloan might be in play

All the kid's love T&T, they will go to war for them. Not mentioning the other coaches.

We need to look at Cade Devos at 184. Obviously an Iowa kid and graduating with a pharmacy degree from SDSU, last time I checked Iowa also has a great program and he can get his doctorate of pharmacy at Iowa since they also have a great school for that.

Drake isn't going anywhere, but probably not a career 125.

We're in the mix with Davino and Lilledahl.

Have to make sure Chittum stays in IC, not saying he's leaving, but he's wrecking guys in the room.

Don't write off Riggins, he'll grow nicely into his long frame and will make big time noise before he's done.

Same with Block. He's well liked and respected by the next generation of guy's in the room and expect big things from him.

Gabe will be a revelation for the program. Big personality and the skills to match. He's like a Penn State guy, glad he's a Hawk!

The staff has heard us and has listened, hopefully Gabe's cousin joins the HWC.

Keuter is not Jack Campbell and won't be. Hope he wrestles during his eligibility because he could be a multiple time champ if he can get to and maintain 245 to 255. Obviously we all know how good he is and could be. I just don't think he's a first day NFL pick but wouldn't bet against him. Iowa wrestling fans would prefer he sticks with wrestling, right?

The sky is not falling, the Brand's are far from perfect but the kid's in the room love them. The university, and people that matter will always want the program to be the best. Take a deep breath and relax. Iowa is isn't going anywhere and will never be happy with 2nd place!

Excellent post.

Is it me, or does this board seem better already? Granted, I have hundreds of meatheads on ignore, but I’ve seen nothing but thoughtful, respectful discussion on this board so far this morning. This is how a board should be. Lots of great discussion, and pretty much all from Iowa fans who actually care about Iowa wrestling and know something. Breath of fresh air. Good job outta the mods.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

I've avoided this shit show of a board (because of the PSU losers) until now so I'll give my 2 cents. Literally knowing 1/4 of the team and their parents because my kid wrestled with them growing up and in clubs here's my take...

Sloan might be in play

All the kid's love T&T, they will go to war for them. Not mentioning the other coaches.

We need to look at Cade Devos at 184. Obviously an Iowa kid and graduating with a pharmacy degree from SDSU, last time I checked Iowa also has a great program and he can get his doctorate of pharmacy at Iowa since they also have a great school for that.

Drake isn't going anywhere, but probably not a career 125.

We're in the mix with Davino and Lilledahl.

Have to make sure Chittum stays in IC, not saying he's leaving, but he's wrecking guys in the room.

Don't write off Riggins, he'll grow nicely into his long frame and will make big time noise before he's done.

Same with Block. He's well liked and respected by the next generation of guy's in the room and expect big things from him.

Gabe will be a revelation for the program. Big personality and the skills to match. He's like a Penn State guy, glad he's a Hawk!

The staff has heard us and has listened, hopefully Gabe's cousin joins the HWC.

Keuter is not Jack Campbell and won't be. Hope he wrestles during his eligibility because he could be a multiple time champ if he can get to and maintain 245 to 255. Obviously we all know how good he is and could be. I just don't think he's a first day NFL pick but wouldn't bet against him. Iowa wrestling fans would prefer he sticks with wrestling, right?

The sky is not falling, the Brand's are far from perfect but the kid's in the room love them. The university, and people that matter will always want the program to be the best. Take a deep breath and relax. Iowa is isn't going anywhere and will never be happy with 2nd place!

This is an extremely high-quality post. Strong work.

 

[js8793]

My two cents. Iowa should start looking internationally. Getting beat by PSU and tOSU for the best US recruits? I suspect there's a lot of talented kids in faraway places who'd like nothing better than to train with TnT and get a US education.

This happens in other sports all the time. UCONN women's BB has more international kids than US-born kids. UCONN appears to have made the move internationally to extend its dominance once the recruiting landscape in this country became more competitive. Trinity squash was second fiddle to Ivy League teams for years. Trinity went international, got a steady pipeline of kids from Europe and Egypt, and went on a tear winning nationals more than 10 straight times.

So, I'd tell the staff to go to cadet and world juniors, start meeting some kids, and forge relationships with their coaches.

There's a first mover advantage.

They need to lock up a 184 from Dagestan to show Brooks the power of Muhammad.

Inshallah!

 

[bourbon n blues]

Something I think needs to be discussed concerning wearing out opponents. Iowa has the history of being the best in shape team in the country but the field has caught up since the gable era. The time tested strategy of heavy head/hands defense and snap downs while pressing forward is not going to wear guys out anymore. The wrestlers need to be creating openings and engaged in scoring sequences to tire people out. The max murin types are good guys to root for, but you need more firepower if your goal is to win team titles.

I'm no wrestler , but I've lifted well into my fifties . My coach , Josh Bryant would crush me for three weeks, then I had a deload week. It was like 1/2 weight and volume . That was the fourth.
Recovery and training has come a long way. Following his guidance always had me peaked for a meet. I was 40 lbs above my best double at the meet( 2 weeks later.
I could count hitting 25 lbs over my best and heaviest training single, and 15 lbs over a miss . This was slightly over a 600 deadlift btw.
Wrestling is much more complicated imo, but the principles apply.

 

[Steamboat529529]

I’m not here to bag on our team. Those guys are Hawks through and through and they put it on the line every time they stepped in the circle.

But we have circled the Wagons for the last decade and PSU having our number for 5 out of every 6 years is not cutting the mustard.

I don’t for one second think the sport has passed TnT by. I think they are world class, but something has to change.
I certainly know it’s better here than places like Oklahoma State right now. I don’t envy them with what to do with John Smith.

It seems every year we fool ourselves thinking that “if we catch a break here” or “if they slip up there” we have a SHOT.

It’s time to take a real hard look at what is going on and fix the problem. And no, I don’t think filling the line up with transfers is the answer.
Plug a guy in… sure. But when you are praying for 4-5 guys to save the program, you are asking for trouble.

I think the easy answer is recruiting, but why are we failing so much there?

It seems that many of the very top guys in the nation would rather wrestle at places like Ohio State, let alone PSU, over Iowa.

I’m not looking to throw anyone under the bus. I firmly believe Iowa can get back on top and it’s not going to take a miracle.

But you certainly can’t keep the status quo and say, “we just gotta work a little harder” or “gotta find a way to score more points”.

Something big has got to give.

The answer is Penn State is on an elite level that no one in the sport has ever seen. And that includes Iowa and Oklahoma State. Their recruiting, coaching, and wrestling club are a lethal combo to the rest of the wrestling world right now. Hell, they’ve got Iowa’s best international wrestler, and Ohio State’s and Cornell’s too! Throw in the best college wrestler of all time as your coach (his coaching ability which is fantastic is different) and put it in the best wrestling state in the country.

 

[hogghawk]

I've avoided this shit show of a board (because of the PSU losers) until now so I'll give my 2 cents. Literally knowing 1/4 of the team and their parents because my kid wrestled with them growing up and in clubs here's my take...

Sloan might be in play

All the kid's love T&T, they will go to war for them. Not mentioning the other coaches.

We need to look at Cade Devos at 184. Obviously an Iowa kid and graduating with a pharmacy degree from SDSU, last time I checked Iowa also has a great program and he can get his doctorate of pharmacy at Iowa since they also have a great school for that.

Drake isn't going anywhere, but probably not a career 125.

We're in the mix with Davino and Lilledahl.

Have to make sure Chittum stays in IC, not saying he's leaving, but he's wrecking guys in the room.

Don't write off Riggins, he'll grow nicely into his long frame and will make big time noise before he's done.

Same with Block. He's well liked and respected by the next generation of guy's in the room and expect big things from him.

Gabe will be a revelation for the program. Big personality and the skills to match. He's like a Penn State guy, glad he's a Hawk!

The staff has heard us and has listened, hopefully Gabe's cousin joins the HWC.

Keuter is not Jack Campbell and won't be. Hope he wrestles during his eligibility because he could be a multiple time champ if he can get to and maintain 245 to 255. Obviously we all know how good he is and could be. I just don't think he's a first day NFL pick but wouldn't bet against him. Iowa wrestling fans would prefer he sticks with wrestling, right?

The sky is not falling, the Brand's are far from perfect but the kid's in the room love them. The university, and people that matter will always want the program to be the best. Take a deep breath and relax. Iowa is isn't going anywhere and will never be happy with 2nd place!

Great post! Thanks for putting this out there. I think what has made college wrestling so good these days is the multiple schools who are putting one or maybe multiple wrestlers into the blood round. Yes I realize Penn State is above everyone right now, but the parity is pretty good. The bad thing for them programs that arent quite as large or well funded is keeping those kids around with the portal as a easy way to move. Iowa needs to stay on top of its game and utilize the portal to the full degree of filling dead weights. We are still a sought after program that every other fan base hates! That still tells me they know what we are capable of and still realize who the player is. We arent going anywhere!!

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Obviously a complex question, but as is often the case, much of the answer is $.

We need increased funding for NIL and to bolster the HWC roster. I’m a broken record on this, but the key is endowing the HWC ASAP. In case anyone isn’t aware (guessing most are), the campaign began recently and is around $1.5M with a goal of $15M. Our capacity to land top 10 P4P recruits and build the HWC instantly skyrockets once that goal is reached. In case there’s any question, anyone can pitch in with tax-deductible donations to help the cause.

It goes without saying that increased funding leads to better recruiting. That’s 90+% of the battle.

No doubt the facility will be a draw for recruits.

Iowa youth club and high school wrestling is on the rise. This will help.

Other tweaks can be made in terms of training methods, match preparation, etc., but that stuff pales in comparison to funding, which fuels recruiting (and building the HWC), which is by far the primary determinant of success on the mat.

 

[NLhawk62]

We saw that experiment at Ohio State. Didn't work out wrestling wise, and ignore the personal issues the kid had.

I believe those trained in freestyle, would have a tough transition to folkstyle because of the emphasis of control for scoring, and mat wrestling.

Likewise it takes time (years) for our best folkstyle wrestlers to become beasts in freestyle.

Huh? Burroughs, Snyder, and Cox were beasts in freestyle immediately after and during college. Even Gilman won a silver medal right after college in 2017.

It can be argued our best folkstyle wrestlers are even better freestylers. Spencer Lee would fall into that category, if he could ever stay healthy.

 

[BELDEEN]

I went on a statistical deep dive this morning and I asked myself the question:

Has anyone other than Cael Sanderson out performed Brands since 2008?

I compiled every top 8 NCAA team from 2008 to present. The following teams have performed higher than any other team.

		AVG NCAA Team Finish	Total NCAA Champs	AVG AA	Intl Medals	Olympic Medals
Tom Brands	IOWA	2.7	12	5.7	3	2
John Smith	Oklahoma State	5.3	10	4.2	1	1
Rob Koll	Cornell	5.6	16	3.8	5	1
Tom Ryan	Ohio State	6.3	11	4.1	7	2

• First we have the AVG NCAA Team Finish since 2008, Brands is way ahead. Even removing the first three titles from 2008-10, Brand's teams still place on an average of 3.1.
• I then totaled NCAA Champs by each coach, Koll in the lead, Brands second.
• I then compiled all the AA's by year and Brands is at the top again, averaging nearly 6 AA per year. Lowest year was 4 AA's
• With the Intl and Olympic medals, regardless of club affiliation, I totaled medals by school. I am not sure this is the way this should be done, but hard to think that Gilman's or Snyder's medals should not count for their alma mater? Maybe, I am wrong here.

As of late, Michigan , ASU, and Arizona St are up and coming at the NCAA level. However based on the data from 2008-2023, Brands is by far the best coach when you omit Sanderson.

What do you think? Is this a good way to measure the success of our team/coach?

 

[raslen007]

This convo has been extremely good. Not much if any on cheating or a non-level playing field. These are all great points with guys adding, thoughts & having discussions. You will not find another person out there that loves Hawkeye wrestling more than TnT. You know they are just fuming at the results. Bring in some new blood with a different perspective and add the passion of TnT and you have something special. The "Brand" is already in place, no need to concentrate on building that.

The two coaches (Cael-Tom) are obviously different in how they approach their programs. Tom seems to answer just about every question asked but also add more info that was not necessarily part of the question. With Cael you don't get any extra info and you you need to ask the the rite question to get an answer. it's just a different style and one is not necessarily better than the other. Have a great off-season.

 

[BELDEEN]

I also agree with @WWDMHawkeye, moderation on this board is great, a breath of fresh air. Thanks @RossWB

 

[The cow catcher]

To piggyback off of previous posts about $ and recruiting being priority #1, did some research on recruits in lineups. These are P4P big board rankings in their respective class.
Iowa, PSU, FOSU
Spencer-2, Steen-29, Malik-37
Teske- 34, RBY-12, Mendez-3
Woods- 21, Bartlett-4, D’emellio-32
Murin- 44, SVN-4, Sasso-4
Cobe- NR, Haines-9, Gallagher-3
Kennedy- 3, Facundo-2, Kharchla-4
Nelson-93, Star-9, Smith-33
Assad-29, Brooks-2, Romero-16
Warner-7, Dean-didn’t look, Hoffman-10
Cass-14, Kerk-1, Orndorff- NR
I think this shows our coaches are doing well with what they’re working with. Get studs in the room and results will come. I think it’s safe to say they’re aware of that and working to make that happen.

 

[NCPsuFan]

Think like a top level recruit what factors into your decision? Here are my bullets in no particular order and probably incomplete.

1. Relationships with coaches very personal
2. Facilities new wrestling building
3. Academics do they have my major? Fast track to a good career with an alumnis firm?
4. Program position will I win a team title?
5. Location how close to home?
6. Environment cha arena vs split with a gymnastics meet at Maryland?
7. Nil money
8. Culture? Do I get along with the rest of the team?

Where are weak? Where are we strong? What's out of our control?

Probably the smartest post I’ve read in a while in regards to objectivity and seeking solutions… for sure the right questions and I’d say you all are pretty damn good in most areas. Some I can’t speak to.

 

[Gusaford]

OK how about Bastida then?

The point is the transition is difficult, thus the small sample size.

Batisda isn’t the ceiling of who we might recruit. But Batisda did take fifth at nationals as a redshirt frosh and has beaten Warner twice. If we had a hole at 197, I’d take a guy of his skill set in a second and have TnT coach him up.

You make a fair point about the freestyle -folkstyle transition taking some time and introducing an unknown into the equation. But we need to expand the pool if we’re losing out to PSU recruiting-wise more often than not.

 

[Gonzo Bloor]

Seems like we just have a problem with development. Look at guys like ADS, Eierman, Kem, Cass... they beat the other top guys early, then those other guys learned and adapted and beat our guys without looking back. Happened with ADS and RBY, Eierman and Lee, Kem and Starr, Cass and Kerk. Maybe others I'm missing. But then when the other guys win a few and get the upper hand, our guys don't seem to learn and adapt and re-close that gap. ADS never beat RBY again, Eierman never beat Lee again, Kem never beat Starr again, Cass never beat Kerk again. This to me is the most concerning thing. Why are our guys not progressing and adapting their game to get back on top. Hell look at O'Toole v. Carr... Carr was clearly the better guy the first two times, and KOT adapted and got the W at nationals. Why are our guys not able to do this? If anything, the gap widens. Maybe it's just that they're up against more talented guys and wrestle out of their minds to get those early wins and should be commended for beating guys who are just flat better. I don't know enough about wrestling to know which is the case. But it seems like a recent trend that is not a good one.

 

[Redm18]

Probably the smartest post I’ve read in a while in regards to objectivity and seeking solutions… for sure the right questions and I’d say you all are pretty damn good in most areas. Some I can’t speak to.

Wow thanks for the compliment. Grammer / punctuation was not great in my post I admit.
Thinking about these over the last two days or so I'm going to comment again on them.
1. I do think our coaching staff connects well with guys or at least with Spencer Lee. Religion seems to be a big focus with Caels guys and I don't think we get that as much. I do think another top level guy like a Dake or Cox would help here. Maybe a poc on the coaching staff would help. I don't think the current staff is racist or anything like that but we have been awfully white / Latino lately.
2. Brands has really done a great job on facilities with bringing in the new building and I think it will help.
3. Iowa is a great school but we are always going to lag behind Cornell here which I think at this point is maybe the 3rd best program in the country. Penn state probably has a leg up on us here to just because it's so close to the east coast compared to Iowa.
4. We lag way behind Penn State here and way above every other program in the country besides Penn State. There has been one team other then Iowa / Penn state ton win nationals since the current recruits have been aware of wrestling.
5. There is basically no fix for our disadvantage here. It's just a numbers game. Even if wrestling is 10 times as popular here as in Pennsylvania there will still be a larger talent pool and better recruits near Penn state. We can improve this buy helping to develop clubs around here and building relationships with the clubs that are already here. Why does Askren hate us so much? What have we done to fix that?
6. We win this I think hands down.
7. No idea what the answer is here. I'm not sure how much we can do.
8. Again not sure. I think TnT have made this a focus though.

 

[MVPFAN]

Seems like we just have a problem with development. Look at guys like ADS, Eierman, Kem, Cass... they beat the other top guys early, then those other guys learned and adapted and beat our guys without looking back. Happened with ADS and RBY, Eierman and Lee, Kem and Starr, Cass and Kerk. Maybe others I'm missing. But then when the other guys win a few and get the upper hand, our guys don't seem to learn and adapt and re-close that gap. ADS never beat RBY again, Eierman never beat Lee again, Kem never beat Starr again, Cass never beat Kerk again. This to me is the most concerning thing. Why are our guys not progressing and adapting their game to get back on top. Hell look at O'Toole v. Carr... Carr was clearly the better guy the first two times, and KOT adapted and got the W at nationals. Why are our guys not able to do this? If anything, the gap widens. Maybe it's just that they're up against more talented guys and wrestle out of their minds to get those early wins and should be commended for beating guys who are just flat better. I don't know enough about wrestling to know which is the case. But it seems like a recent trend that is not a good one.

Kerk is a superior athlete and talent to Cass who underperformed to start mainly due to injury. RBY the superior athlete and talent too, was lacking the strength that first year. Lee not necessarily a superior athlete but his positioning and execution were nearly flawless. I wouldn't as much say development is the word to use although that does factor some. I'd say game planning, strategy, match to match adjustments are where the worm turned the most.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

1. Religion seems to be a big focus with Caels guys and I don't think we get that as much.

Our staff is of course welcoming and inclusive of all of their guys regardless of their background, but just as a point of clarification, there’s a pretty strong Christian influence in the Iowa program.

 

[Jackhawk87]

Obviously a complex question, but as is often the case, much of the answer is $.

We need increased funding for NIL and to bolster the HWC roster. I’m a broken record on this, but the key is endowing the HWC ASAP. In case anyone isn’t aware (guessing most are), the campaign began recently and is around $1.5M with a goal of $15M. Our capacity to land top 10 P4P recruits and build the HWC instantly skyrockets once that goal is reached. In case there’s any question, anyone can pitch in with tax-deductible donations to help the cause.

It goes without saying that increased funding leads to better recruiting. That’s 90+% of the battle.

No doubt the facility will be a draw for recruits.

Iowa youth club and high school wrestling is on the rise. This will help.

Other tweaks can be made in terms of training methods, match preparation, etc., but that stuff pales in comparison to funding, which fuels recruiting (and building the HWC), which is by far the primary determinant of success on the mat.

We had a great grass roots movement to get $ for the HWC a few years ago. I contributed at that time (and continue to give $100/month via the inner circle) to the HWC. I thought that was the best possible use of $ to make Iowa wrestling better. That was pre NIL. I know it is still incredibly important to fund the HWC, but what is the best use of additional funds to support getting top level HS recruits and transfers?

Is there a wrestling specific NIL fund?

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

We had a great grass roots movement to get $ for the HWC a few years ago. I contributed at that time (and continue to give $100/month via the inner circle) to the HWC. I thought that was the best possible use of $ to make Iowa wrestling better. That was pre NIL. I know it is still incredibly important to fund the HWC, but what is the best use of additional funds to support getting top level HS recruits and transfers?

Is there a wrestling specific NIL fund?

Great question. There’s nothing like the Swarm collective for wrestling per se. The HWC is the best place to donate, be it to the Inner Circle, the endowment, or both. Under current NIL rules those funds can be used with much more flexibility than in the past.

Supporting the Inner Circle is awesome, as it supports the day-to-day operations. Joining the Inner Circle plus pitching in to the endowment with a one-time donation is even better.👊🏻 To donate to the endowment, you can just hop on the website and select “donate”. It will get to the right place.

 

[TarpHawk]

Wow, where did this pristine thread, devoid of name-calling, come from? Thanks moderator and posters.

Great post by ibahwkfan--insightful and optimistic.

Ditto Gusaford's post--I've felt the same way about int'l recruits for several years. You don't need the #1 guy from Belarus--take the #3 guy who wants to go to college in the US.

Ditto Beldeen's post --great data, great perspective showing the relative strength of Iowa (relative to everyone except Penn St). Without contradicting those stats, here are a couple of more sobering stats:

1. Under Brands, Iowa has scored 100+ team points only 4 times in 16 seasons--the same number as Zalesky in 9. (Gable scored 100+ team points 16 times in 21 seasons.)

2. Iowa has won 1 NCAA team title in the past 10 seasons. If Penn State did not exist, Iowa would've won only 1 more title (this year). The other 8 years we would've been behind at least one other team.

We're consistently among the top 4 teams, but consistently lacking in horsepower to be a contender (2 studs shy). And we can't blame that on Penn State.

 

[Redm18]

Our staff is of course welcoming and inclusive of all of their guys regardless of their background, but just as a point of clarification, there’s a pretty strong Christian influence in the Iowa program.

Yeah I get that. I'm just saying both of Caels guy's mentioned it in the interview. Kerk mentioned it after he won in the semis.

 

[acuhawk]

Seems like we just have a problem with development. Look at guys like ADS, Eierman, Kem, Cass... they beat the other top guys early, then those other guys learned and adapted and beat our guys without looking back. Happened with ADS and RBY, Eierman and Lee, Kem and Starr, Cass and Kerk. Maybe others I'm missing. But then when the other guys win a few and get the upper hand, our guys don't seem to learn and adapt and re-close that gap. ADS never beat RBY again, Eierman never beat Lee again, Kem never beat Starr again, Cass never beat Kerk again. This to me is the most concerning thing. Why are our guys not progressing and adapting their game to get back on top. Hell look at O'Toole v. Carr... Carr was clearly the better guy the first two times, and KOT adapted and got the W at nationals. Why are our guys not able to do this? If anything, the gap widens. Maybe it's just that they're up against more talented guys and wrestle out of their minds to get those early wins and should be commended for beating guys who are just flat better. I don't know enough about wrestling to know which is the case. But it seems like a recent trend that is not a good one.

You're probably the one who posted this same stuff last year and you're wrong. Just off the top of my head I know Warner and Kemdawg lost to Schultz and Labriola just before NCAA's then beat them at NCAA's. I think we can classify what you think your seeing in the same file as the we're always smaller, weaker, or out of shape false observations that constantly get regurgitated.
I will also put an * with Kemdawg vs staller. Some of you forget in 2021 our team didn't have a competition from Feb 7th until big tens because of Covid. The team wasn't allowed to be in Carver or around teammates for 2 weeks after the 7th of Feb. Then when they were cleared, no team would wrestle them even though they tried to schedule several teams. So Big Tens was the first competition in a month. Those that wrestle know you can't get in wrestling shape by running and biking. I don't personally believe Jayden or Kem lose that year had they been able to train and compete that month. I'm not attempting to make an excuse but shading some light on your examples. The following year the injuries were well documented. For DeSanto vs RBY I think it's more than clear the style RBY was allowed to use required a different type of attack that Austin didn't have in his arsenal. He worked on other stuff but it takes thousands of reps to have a chance at performing it against the quickest guy at the weight. No offense but those are just poor examples on your part.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Yeah I get that. I'm just saying both of Caels guy's mentioned it in the interview. Kerk mentioned it after he won in the semis.

I guess what I was getting at is that the emphasis on faith is likely every bit as influential in the Iowa program as in PSU’s. I don’t consider comments on post-match interviews to be particularly relevant in this regard.

 

[Jackhawk87]

Great question. There’s nothing like the Swarm collective for wrestling per se. The HWC is the best place to donate, be it to the Inner Circle, the endowment, or both. Under current NIL rules those funds can be used with much more flexibility than in the past.

Supporting the Inner Circle is awesome, as it supports the day-to-day operations. Joining the Inner Circle plus pitching in to the endowment with a one-time donation is even better.👊🏻 To donate to the endowment, you can just hop on the website and select “donate”. It will get to the right place.

While this sounds great, if fans knew that every dollar they donated went to a collective NIL to get the top PFP HS kids here and get transfers in the door, I am betting you would get much better buy in from the die hard as well as non die hard fans.

HWC $ may be going many different places - paying the overhead, admin staff, paying members and coaches of the HWC (both men and women’s I would assume), etc. Some I guess may go towards getting more HS studs and transfers, but it is a much less clear message.

Instead of the Swarm, get a specific “Hammers” collective designed to collect NIL wrestling money to get the hammers in the room to win us some championships. Now that is a clear message.

 

[acuhawk]

While this sounds great, if fans knew that every dollar they donated went to a collective NIL to get the top PFP HS kids here and get transfers in the door, I am betting you would get much better buy in from the die hard as well as non die hard fans.

HWC $ may be going many different places - paying the overhead, admin staff, paying members and coaches of the HWC (both men and women’s I would assume), etc. Some I guess may go towards getting more HS studs and transfers, but it is a much less clear message.

Instead of the Swarm, get a specific “Hammers” collective designed to collect NIL wrestling money to get the hammers in the room to win us some championships. Now that is a clear message.

I agree that it would be nice to have the ability to direct where you want donations to go up to a point. I know the Swarm allows that for football at certain donation levels. I think the Swarm donation levels weren't outlandish. They can't micromanage each small donation but it's conceivable to make it possible to push for some straight up NIL funds to the HWC. I would suggest emailing Chad regarding this.

 

[fourbyfour69]

The program needs to really to try and find a “whale” level donor similar to the donor PSU has. We need to adjust our style. I love the hard nosed wrestling we are known for and good hand fighting but last I checked they are not awarding points for that. Watching the top level at the tournament, they score with more motion, creating angles and moving arms than so much straight in snapping on the head. We also need to get quicker with finishes and learn to scramble better and or stay out of the head to ankles positions. I think we also sometimes just “ride” too much instead of working turns or tilts. Think Perry and the Steiners. I also think we made some poor choices on selection for top/bottom in certain matches and it cost us. I know it’s been talked about before but the Brands appear to be trying to mold all wrestlers into that physical beat on the head style and I think that takes away from what style the wrestler brings to the room. Gable took what the wrestler brought to the room for a style added to that style and added the Iowa toughness. I feel trying to mold these guys into that “Iowa” way has caused some regression in recent years.

 

[acuhawk]

Following up on the covid debacle. It also led to the team not having a Strength Coach for over a year due to a hiring freeze. Not having a S and C coach for over a year is a huge deal. Not an excuse but more facts for fair discussion. I also think the current Strength coach is the best since I've been around(at least 3 guys in that time). I also will say the chemistry around the team with coaches, staff, assistants, trainers etc is the best I have seen. They have a good thing going and I believe that will shine through over the following 5 year cycle starting with the incoming recruits and new facility.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

The program needs to really to try and find a “whale” level donor similar to the donor PSU has.

We can do some things.

 

[acuhawk]

The program needs to really to try and find a “whale” level donor similar to the donor PSU has. We need to adjust our style. I love the hard nosed wrestling we are known for and good hand fighting but last I checked they are not awarding points for that. Watching the top level at the tournament, they score with more motion, creating angles and moving arms than so much straight in snapping on the head. We also need to get quicker with finishes and learn to scramble better and or stay out of the head to ankles positions. I think we also sometimes just “ride” too much instead of working turns or tilts. Think Perry and the Steiners. I also think we made some poor choices on selection for top/bottom in certain matches and it cost us. I know it’s been talked about before but the Brands appear to be trying to mold all wrestlers into that physical beat on the head style and I think that takes away from what style the wrestler brings to the room. Gable took what the wrestler brought to the room for a style added to that style and added the Iowa toughness. I feel trying to mold these guys into that “Iowa” way has caused some regression in recent years.

Have you watched Real Woods? Or Cobe? Clark? Lugo? Spencer? Kemdawg? Jayden? None of which wrestler anything like what you branded the coaches as trying to mold. Just another example of seeing what you want to see that can be filed in the smaller, weaker, out of shape, never win rematches cabinet.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Have you watched Real Woods? Or Cobe? Clark? Lugo? Spencer? Kemdawg? Jayden? None of which wrestler anything like what you branded the coaches as trying to mold. Just another example of seeing what you want to see that can be filed in the smaller, weaker, out of shape, never win rematches cabinet.

Very true.

 

[78HKEYE]

Wow thanks for the compliment. Grammer / punctuation was not great in my post I admit.
Thinking about these over the last two days or so I'm going to comment again on them.
1. I do think our coaching staff connects well with guys or at least with Spencer Lee. Religion seems to be a big focus with Caels guys and I don't think we get that as much. I do think another top level guy like a Dake or Cox would help here. Maybe a poc on the coaching staff would help. I don't think the current staff is racist or anything like that but we have been awfully white / Latino lately.
2. Brands has really done a great job on facilities with bringing in the new building and I think it will help.
3. Iowa is a great school but we are always going to lag behind Cornell here which I think at this point is maybe the 3rd best program in the country. Penn state probably has a leg up on us here to just because it's so close to the east coast compared to Iowa.
4. We lag way behind Penn State here and way above every other program in the country besides Penn State. There has been one team other then Iowa / Penn state ton win nationals since the current recruits have been aware of wrestling.
5. There is basically no fix for our disadvantage here. It's just a numbers game. Even if wrestling is 10 times as popular here as in Pennsylvania there will still be a larger talent pool and better recruits near Penn state. We can improve this buy helping to develop clubs around here and building relationships with the clubs that are already here. Why does Askren hate us so much? What have we done to fix that?
6. We win this I think hands down.
7. No idea what the answer is here. I'm not sure how much we can do.
8. Again not sure. I think TnT have made this a focus though.

Wow another person bring race into it. Pretty pathetic. You don’t think Iowa recruited hall or Kerk? Seriously stupid argument.